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For fitness does the bike really matter?

Old 03-03-22, 03:51 PM
  #176  
63rickert
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
I find your scenario unbelievable. Of course you’ve accused me of either being weak, stupid, or both.



It gets better and better. Was it uphill both ways?



30 mph on the flats on a knob tired mountain bike? Nope. I have no idea what that speed feels like because that kind of speed on the flats (into the wind, at sub freezing temperatures, uphill both ways, etc) strains credulity . ofagen above said that the power output is 700W. I calculated it out as closer to 900W. The hour record is 32mph…on a track…on smooth tires…under warm conditions…on a feather weight bike…on an aerodynamic bike.

Again, go ahead and pull the other one.
Hour record is done by one rider working alone. Output is continuous for an hour. Ordinary riders do achieve 700 and 900 watts. Normally and routinely. Working in a group under limiting circumstances the lead rider is only required to make that power for a matter of seconds. Ten second pulls? One of the nicest things about the rides I am describing is that short pulls were learned. Way too many group rides work with one minute pulls, short pulls really do work better.

Reminiscing about this some more, which has been quite pleasant, there really were lots of times when 30mph on knobs was achieved. It is not that unusual. If it seems unbelievable to you it just says that you lack experience in many fields of bike riding.
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Old 03-03-22, 04:17 PM
  #177  
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Originally Posted by 63rickert
Hour record is done by one rider working alone. Output is continuous for an hour. Ordinary riders do achieve 700 and 900 watts. Normally and routinely. Working in a group under limiting circumstances the lead rider is only required to make that power for a matter of seconds. Ten second pulls? One of the nicest things about the rides I am describing is that short pulls were learned. Way too many group rides work with one minute pulls, short pulls really do work better.

Reminiscing about this some more, which has been quite pleasant, there really were lots of times when 30mph on knobs was achieved. It is not that unusual. If it seems unbelievable to you it just says that you lack experience in many fields of bike riding.
Nobody is doing repeated 10 second pulls at 900W outside of the pro peloton. Only in your wildest dreams were you riding at 30 mph on the flat for any significant length of time on your knobbly mtb. Show us your Strava segments or it didn't happen.
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Old 03-03-22, 04:51 PM
  #178  
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Originally Posted by 63rickert
One of the nicest things about the rides I am describing is that short pulls were learned. Way too many group rides work with one minute pulls, short pulls really do work better.
The trouble with short pulls is you lose one bike length every time a rider pulls off. There's a reason ProTour teams went away from a fast rotating double pace lines.

Rotating in a breakaway is a different story. There no one wants to do any more work than the next guy so generally everyone takes as short a pull as possible, i.e., pulls off as soon as the rider former lead rider is behind them.
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Old 03-03-22, 05:45 PM
  #179  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Nobody is doing repeated 10 second pulls at 900W outside of the pro peloton. Only in your wildest dreams were you riding at 30 mph on the flat for any significant length of time on your knobbly mtb. Show us your Strava segments or it didn't happen.
https://images.app.goo.gl/WQnTK7QVMrUmULdh6

First column is for 5 second effort, 2nd column is for one minute effort. All figures in watts per kilogram. The power I report is just ordinary. It does require motivation.

If you decide in advance that ordinary performance is impossible you won’t ever perform.

Ten seconds with google. I do not and never have carted Strava around.
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Old 03-03-22, 05:54 PM
  #180  
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Originally Posted by 63rickert
https://images.app.goo.gl/WQnTK7QVMrUmULdh6

First column is for 5 second effort, 2nd column is for one minute effort. All figures in watts per kilogram. The power I report is just ordinary. It does require motivation.

If you decide in advance that ordinary performance is impossible you won’t ever perform.

Ten seconds with google. I do not and never have carted Strava around.
700-900w may be ordinary - I break that just about every single outdoor ride. 700-900w for 10s? No, not ordinary for mortals. Going further, mortals doing 700-900w for 10s in the smooth, controlled manner required in a steam-rollin' paceline? Poppycock.
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Old 03-03-22, 06:25 PM
  #181  
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Originally Posted by 63rickert
Ordinary riders do achieve 700 and 900 watts. Normally and routinely. Working in a group under limiting circumstances the lead rider is only required to make that power for a matter of seconds. Ten second pulls?
Just sitting on the back of a pace line driven at 700-900 W is going to be more than most cyclists can handle.
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Old 03-04-22, 04:24 AM
  #182  
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Originally Posted by 63rickert
https://images.app.goo.gl/WQnTK7QVMrUmULdh6

First column is for 5 second effort, 2nd column is for one minute effort. All figures in watts per kilogram. The power I report is just ordinary. It does require motivation.

If you decide in advance that ordinary performance is impossible you won’t ever perform.

Ten seconds with google. I do not and never have carted Strava around.
Yes, sure I can hit 1000W on a 5 sec all-out sprint and I'm not a great sprinter. My best 1 minute effort is around 500W and that really hurts. But talk of powering along in a paceline where everyone is doing 10 sec 700-900W pulls is complete and utter BS. Sorry, but it's not happening in the real world.

Do you actually have a power meter on your bike? If so let's see one of these amazing pace line efforts, ideally on your mtb with 2.5 knobbies or whatever at 30 mph

Reality check:-

Let's say the lead rider is pulling at 800W (as you do) and you get a 30% power saving in the draft i.e. those behind are therefore putting out just a mere 560W to hang on. So you do your 800W 10 sec pull and then ease back into a 560W cruise while recovering for your next pull. How realistic is that? LOL. This would be barely credible for a World Tour sprint lead-out train, not you and your mates out on a ride.

Last edited by PeteHski; 03-04-22 at 04:55 AM.
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Old 03-04-22, 12:48 PM
  #183  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Yes, sure I can hit 1000W on a 5 sec all-out sprint and I'm not a great sprinter. My best 1 minute effort is around 500W and that really hurts. But talk of powering along in a paceline where everyone is doing 10 sec 700-900W pulls is complete and utter BS. Sorry, but it's not happening in the real world.

Do you actually have a power meter on your bike? If so let's see one of these amazing pace line efforts, ideally on your mtb with 2.5 knobbies or whatever at 30 mph

Reality check:-

Let's say the lead rider is pulling at 800W (as you do) and you get a 30% power saving in the draft i.e. those behind are therefore putting out just a mere 560W to hang on. So you do your 800W 10 sec pull and then ease back into a 560W cruise while recovering for your next pull. How realistic is that? LOL. This would be barely credible for a World Tour sprint lead-out train, not you and your mates out on a ride.
You just specified that you can do the power. I said that I could do the same. But it is impossible for a group.

Do you hear yourself at all?
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Old 03-04-22, 01:03 PM
  #184  
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Originally Posted by 63rickert
You just specified that you can do the power. I said that I could do the same. But it is impossible for a group.

Do you hear yourself at all?
You must have massive guads if you can recover at ~500w.
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Old 03-04-22, 04:55 PM
  #185  
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Originally Posted by 63rickert
You just specified that you can do the power. I said that I could do the same. But it is impossible for a group.

Do you hear yourself at all?
Dream on buddy.
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Old 03-05-22, 05:32 PM
  #186  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Dream on buddy.

To be fair, he did specify that he did this on knobs into a headwind at 10 degrees Fahrenheit. No doubt they were passed by a flying pig. Bwahahahaha!!!
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Old 03-06-22, 09:36 AM
  #187  
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Originally Posted by Virtus
I've been mulling over this question for a while and curious what others think. From a fitness perspective is there really any benefit to riding a lighter/faster bike? Given the below 4 hypothetical scenarios; if they were all completed over the same road, with the same average HR and perceived effort is there any fitness benefit of one over the other?

1. Full suspension mountain bike - 30min ride averaging 12mph (6mi ride)
2. Flat bar fitness/hybrid bike - 30min ride averaging 15mph (7.5mi)
3. Endurance/gravel bike - 30min ride averaging 17mph (8.5mi)
4. Aero road bike - 30min ride averaging 20mph (10mi)
I was wondering the same thing, only using a folder instead of a full sized mount, any ideas?
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Old 03-06-22, 03:55 PM
  #188  
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For fitness, you want the bike you enjoy riding. So you will do it consistently. You don't want to dread your rides. It shouldn't be a chore.i bought my first good bike a couple of years ago. I love that bike! I didn't think I was a good enough rider to even notice that riding a quality bike feels better than a piece of junk.
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Old 03-06-22, 05:23 PM
  #189  
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Originally Posted by NomarsGirl
you want the bike you enjoy riding. So you will do it consistently. You don't want to dread your rides. It shouldn't be a chore.
Agreed.

This is even more important for kids. The experience for them has to be so perfect, that they can't wait to do it again, and as much as possible.

Many parents make the mistake in not paying attention to kids' needs:

Underflated tires
Warped rims
Bike too big
Wrong saddle
Wrong saddle level
Wrong seatpost height
Helmet too small it hurts them
Incorrect handlebar height/angle
Grips missing
Dragging brakes
Seized pedals
Shifters/deraillers that don't even work
A bike that has been clearly left out all winter and the chain is just grinding rust

The tip of the iceberg on those days when we have those school cycling field trips.

Parents often think kids' don't need to be serious at all, so they think everything is ok if they simply get by and put up with it.

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