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Tire Rolling Resistance

Old 06-19-22, 08:30 AM
  #1  
Aladin
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Tire Rolling Resistance

Like the Jarno Bierman. Apples to apples stuff.. evolved into a paying site for him. Congrats.


Went over to look at Cyclo rubber recently ... top entries all ROAD tires. ?? ----mmm. No cyclo for me.. thought a good place to start. Seemed not.


Cuttin' to the chase..... how about a TIRE FORUM here?


1. how hard some of that new junk mounts

2. seal NOT experiences

3. road repair tricks tips

4. tire grip/handling


The list long....REAL WORLD data.
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Old 06-19-22, 07:54 PM
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The first 3 can greatly depend on the competence of the operator.
You don't know if said "operator" is a 10 year old kid or an experienced user.
Experienced users may be incompetent mechanics.

4. How many brands can you afford to buy and subject yourself to the first 3 parts of your quest?
How many are simply going to parrot the latest article in whatever bicycle magazine?


Terms like "loose gravel" can conjure up very different images, depending on if you are riding down mountain sides or riding on flat, smooth pavement.
Getting people to mutually "visualize" what you're discussing is very iffy. People just aren't on the same wavelength.

How many tire categories are you going to have? Knobbies & street slicks are used for entirely different purposes.
Some of us may have a mix and thus have to compromise on a tire that is least bad at the extremes of our usage.
It's unlikely "My mix" is the same as "your mix"
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Old 06-19-22, 11:25 PM
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I don't see much point in trying to compete with Mr Bierman's site. Bicycle Rolling Resistance | Rolling Resistance Tests Has about the most extensive and accurate (in my experience anyways) tire tests of anybody. Of course, as with everything, some will disagree with his conclusions, and they probably don't have the amount of work and data collected for their findings as him. "These were supposed to be flat resistant, but I got a flat on my first ride. total garbage. Bierman is a fraud!!" And he should get paid for all the work and expenses it takes to run his site. The site gives a fair amount of free info but for $4 you can get a month's access to all the info to help save $$$$ towards getting some tires you'll like.
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Old 06-19-22, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Crankycrank View Post
I don't see much point in trying to compete with Mr Bierman's site. Bicycle Rolling Resistance | Rolling Resistance Tests Has about the most extensive and accurate (in my experience anyways) tire tests of anybody. Of course, as with everything, some will disagree with his conclusions, and they probably don't have the amount of work and data collected for their findings as him. "These were supposed to be flat resistant, but I got a flat on my first ride. total garbage. Bierman is a fraud!!" And he should get paid for all the work and expenses it takes to run his site. The site gives a fair amount of free info but for $4 you can get a month's access to all the info to help save $$$$ towards getting some tires you'll like.
His test method is total BS. A cylinder is NOT a flat road.
It's obviously going to favor a more supple tire.
Throw in the diamond pattern and what do you think that would do to a "stiff" tire like a Schwalbe Marathon? compared to the Marathon on a flat surface.

A far more realistic test would be to use a ramp to accelerate a bicycle onto a flat surface.
Once on the flat, measure the velocity at Point A and at a fixed distance, measure the velocity at Point B.
The greater the % of velocity loss, the worse the rolling resistance is.
You'd probably need at least 5 runs to smooth the data.
EDIT Add-Tires would also have to be kept at a somewhat constant temperature.

Last edited by Bill Kapaun; 06-19-22 at 11:45 PM.
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Old 06-20-22, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun View Post
His test method is total BS. A cylinder is NOT a flat road.
It's obviously going to favor a more supple tire.
Throw in the diamond pattern and what do you think that would do to a "stiff" tire like a Schwalbe Marathon? compared to the Marathon on a flat surface.

A far more realistic test would be to use a ramp to accelerate a bicycle onto a flat surface.
Once on the flat, measure the velocity at Point A and at a fixed distance, measure the velocity at Point B.
The greater the % of velocity loss, the worse the rolling resistance is.
You'd probably need at least 5 runs to smooth the data.
EDIT Add-Tires would also have to be kept at a somewhat constant temperature.


I've done roll OUT tests. Issues are no wind/very quiet early am's w no traffic. Hence testing is limited. Yet superior to said 'drum'. Under SAME conditions I get high uniformity.

The RR site ... IMO is moving off the original goal.
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Old 06-20-22, 08:16 AM
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^^^^Oh I wouldn't disagree with either of you that his tests have their flaws but if you find a better site, I would really like to see it. Not dissing your opinions, I just haven't found anything better and just use these things as a guide which is better than guessing. Check reviews of tires on tire seller's websites and tell me if those are always informed opinions under controlled testing, which is what I suspect you'll get from some here.
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Old 06-20-22, 10:09 AM
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I hope this doesn’t devolve into flat earth theory.

John
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Old 06-20-22, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Crankycrank View Post
^^^^Oh I wouldn't disagree with either of you that his tests have their flaws but if you find a better site, I would really like to see it. Not dissing your opinions, I just haven't found anything better and just use these things as a guide which is better than guessing. Check reviews of tires on tire seller's websites and tell me if those are always informed opinions under controlled testing, which is what I suspect you'll get from some here.
That simply tells me you'd rather use bad data then no data.
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Old 06-20-22, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun View Post
That simply tells me you'd rather use bad data then no data.
Absolute or comparative data?

Since real world riding surface might vary between a pristine MUP and cobblestones, the actual rolling resistance of a tire is meaningless.

But the comparative data might be useful.

If tire A is generally considered a fast low rolling resistance tire and tire B is considered a slow high rolling resistance tire. I’m not sure there is any real world surface that would cause B to have lower rolling resistance.

As for all the tires within a close range, who cares?

How many decimal points does one have to go out to to prove a preference.

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Old 06-20-22, 12:11 PM
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this may be of interest, whether you buy the rene herse koolaid or not

https://www.renehersecycles.com/how-we-test-tires/

https://www.renehersecycles.com/why-no-half-knobs/

https://www.renehersecycles.com/bq-tire-test-results/
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(looking for Torpado Super light 56,57 or so)

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Old 06-20-22, 12:38 PM
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A couple of elements seem to be missing from Bierman's site. First, I would expect that for the test he runs, maximum tire pressure would give the lowest resistance. I believe that higher tire pressure increases rolling resistance on a rougher road. Not to mention rattling your bones apart. I myself saw a profound difference when, instead of maxing out both tire pressures at 116psi (I'm a big guy), I lowered the front pressure to about 90. Comfort and speed both picked up. So it may be a ilttle bit useful but not at all definitive.

This experiement points out something else. I could do a pretty much direct comparison between 116psi and 90psi. Likewise, I can compare two different tires. Comparing hundreds of models, for the average rider, is not feasible. Worse, some folks will write in I think my Poofybear 5000s are the best tire out there. Without stating criteria, comparators, riding conditions, etc. This sort of data is meaningless, except in the negative sense (if someone had five Poofybear 5000s and they all popped within a week, those data might be somewhat useful.
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Old 06-20-22, 12:49 PM
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where can I find Poofybear 5000's ?

and can I get them in a light tan sidewall ?
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Old 06-20-22, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by t2p View Post
where can I find Poofybear 5000's ?

and can I get them in a light tan sidewall ?

U are SLOW..... Wallyworld... of course.

INTELLIGENT users comments per tires would be of real value. But....first word limits most...........
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Old 06-20-22, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun View Post
That simply tells me you'd rather use bad data then no data.
Nah, not really. Have you got something better? Be useful and post it for us.
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Old 06-20-22, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Crankycrank View Post
Nah, not really. Have you got something better? Be useful and post it for us.
Actually it does.
Get your mama to do your research for you. I have a life.
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Old 06-20-22, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun View Post
Actually it does.
Get your mama to do your research for you. I have a life.
Mom passed away 5 years ago but great idea. I know your life. It's full time gadfly. Still waiting for some useful info from you for this thread.
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Old 06-20-22, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Crankycrank View Post
Mom passed away 5 years ago but great idea. I know your life. It's full time gadfly. Still waiting for some useful info from you for this thread.
Ignore list is much easier tor twits.
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Old 06-20-22, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun View Post
Ignore list is much easier tor twits.
Always a badge of honor to be on your Ignore list. Is there anybody left that hasn't made it? Anyways, carry on, I've got better things to do.
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