Zipp 303S owners... Please step on in.
#51
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I think the salient issue is that numbers provided by tire pressure calculators should only be considered approximate starting points. There is no universal agreement about the "correct" tire pressure for a given set of conditions, and the range of results from different calculators illustrates that.
#52
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I never said that Zipp wheels couldn't be used, just not at the pressures I would want to use them. Yes, hookless can allow a lower pressure for cushy comfy rides, and for sure there doesn't seem any danger running them at the lower PSIs that Zipp recommends.
#53
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I used Pirelli tubeless on my 303s wheels all last season, but I used 30mm tires at 51/54. This year I'm using 28mm in front and the 30mm that was on the front, at the rear. I'll use 54psi in both tires. I don't see any point in increasing the pressure by more than 5 psi.
Even a 205 lb rider could add 5 psi with 28mm tires and be under 73 psi.
Even a 205 lb rider could add 5 psi with 28mm tires and be under 73 psi.
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#54
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My Roadmachine came from the factory with Zipp 303S. After a year the rear bearings were gone & it needed a slight truing. I opted to use TPU tubes & Pirelli TLR 28's & am satisfied with the performance & ride!
#55
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Funny how companies that happen to sell hookless wheels also happen to have pressure calculators that recommend running road bikes at semi flaccid pressures ;-)
#56
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You can run the same low pressure if you have a hook and/or fit a wide tyre. However you MUST run low pressure if you dont.
#57
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Funny how all of these TIRE manufacturers that do not sell wheels are also on board with ETRTO's standards of lower tire pressures.
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#58
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Funny? naahh, their engineers and lawyers warned the marketing departments not to kill their customers.- Tyres blowing off of the rim and such! ;-)
#59
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I see. So what your saying is that these manufactures (Michelin, Continental, Pirelli, Goodyear, Maxis, Specialized, ....etc....etc....) are lying to their customers and opening themselves up for company killing lawsuits just so that they can market a tire for hookless rims. Now it all makes sense.
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#60
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Of course not. Quite the opposite: They are imposing all sorts of limitations on what tyres can be used and at what pressure, for fear of the tyre blowing off of the rim, killing or injuring the rider and exposing the company to all sorts of lawsuits. Makes a lot sense. Of course they will claim its "better" in any number of ways the marketing departments can dream up, to sell it. But at the end of the day its just limitations, rather than advantages, the customer must abide to or be on his own.
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I see. So what your saying is that these manufactures (Michelin, Continental, Pirelli, Goodyear, Maxis, Specialized, ....etc....etc....) are lying to their customers and opening themselves up for company killing lawsuits just so that they can market a tire for hookless rims. Now it all makes sense.
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I see. So what your saying is that these manufactures (Michelin, Continental, Pirelli, Goodyear, Maxis, Specialized, ....etc....etc....) are lying to their customers and opening themselves up for company killing lawsuits just so that they can market a tire for hookless rims. Now it all makes sense.
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#63
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Maybe..... But I am not sure I see that as a bad thing. From all of the independent tests I have seen and read modern wider tires just work better at lower pressures so there is no need to run higher pressures. This is not aimed at you but saying that a max of 73 PSI is a bad thing is just silly. There is just no reason to run tires any higher than that unless your a really heavy rider in which case just go to a wider tire. No biggie.
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I wonder how others determine the appropriate tire pressure for their conditions if the don't use Silca or other online calculators?
I won't use hookless on 25 mm tires because 85F/89R is the pressure needed for my conditions and that exceeds the rim makers spec
On 303 Firecrests with 25mm internal hookless rims, I run 32mm GP5000 tubeless at 55F/60R generally or 50F/55R on chippy roads.
Testing Crr is not so easy, it can be done. Do you just pump them up til they are hard as a rock or what criteria is used?
I won't use hookless on 25 mm tires because 85F/89R is the pressure needed for my conditions and that exceeds the rim makers spec
On 303 Firecrests with 25mm internal hookless rims, I run 32mm GP5000 tubeless at 55F/60R generally or 50F/55R on chippy roads.
Testing Crr is not so easy, it can be done. Do you just pump them up til they are hard as a rock or what criteria is used?
#65
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I wonder how others determine the appropriate tire pressure for their conditions if the don't use Silca or other online calculators?
I won't use hookless on 25 mm tires because 85F/89R is the pressure needed for my conditions and that exceeds the rim makers spec
On 303 Firecrests with 25mm internal hookless rims, I run 32mm GP5000 tubeless at 55F/60R generally or 50F/55R on chippy roads.
Testing Crr is not so easy, it can be done. Do you just pump them up til they are hard as a rock or what criteria is used?
I won't use hookless on 25 mm tires because 85F/89R is the pressure needed for my conditions and that exceeds the rim makers spec
On 303 Firecrests with 25mm internal hookless rims, I run 32mm GP5000 tubeless at 55F/60R generally or 50F/55R on chippy roads.
Testing Crr is not so easy, it can be done. Do you just pump them up til they are hard as a rock or what criteria is used?
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#66
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Maybe..... But I am not sure I see that as a bad thing. From all of the independent tests I have seen and read modern wider tires just work better at lower pressures so there is no need to run higher pressures. This is not aimed at you but saying that a max of 73 PSI is a bad thing is just silly. There is just no reason to run tires any higher than that unless your a really heavy rider in which case just go to a wider tire. No biggie.
"NOTE/WARNING: This calculator is estimating the fastest
possible pressure based on real world data taken with professional athletes
riding professionally specified and maintained equipment. This calculator
makes no claims to the compatibility of the rims/tires you have chosen, nor
does it read the internet deeply enough to know the limitations of your setup
as specified by ANY of the manufacturers of the various components in your
setup. If this calculator recommends pressures that violate ANY of the
limitations of your manufacturer's specifications, you must either change
components or lower your pressures to match those of the manufacturer.
Note: Tubeless setups, particularly those not adhering to ETRTO, OR hookless setups
are VERY sensitive to pressure and surpassing manufacturers recommended
pressures can lead to unneccessary risks including injury, equipment damage,
and you guessed it: death. "
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Maybe..... But I am not sure I see that as a bad thing. From all of the independent tests I have seen and read modern wider tires just work better at lower pressures so there is no need to run higher pressures. This is not aimed at you but saying that a max of 73 PSI is a bad thing is just silly. There is just no reason to run tires any higher than that unless your a really heavy rider in which case just go to a wider tire. No biggie.
Last edited by tomato coupe; 02-22-23 at 06:05 PM. Reason: typo
#68
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For cyclists of even moderate weight, it means they can no longer runner traditional tire widths that some people prefer. So, although hookless rims have manufacturing advantages and might cost less, it's not clear that they offer any performance advantages to riders.
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Just a note to be careful approaching the 73 psi limit on hookless rims. Be sure your pressure gauge is accurate and realize that if you air your tires up in a 70F house and take them onto 120F pavement, it is possible to get into a blow off risk territory, 50F increase is about 10% increase in tire pressure. You'd be suprised how hot tires can get, bring an IR heat gun with you. 120F is at the low end in mid summer where I live
#70
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Just a note to be careful approaching the 73 psi limit on hookless rims. Be sure your pressure gauge is accurate and realize that if you air your tires up in a 70F house and take them onto 120F pavement, it is possible to get into a blow off risk territory, 50F increase is about 10% increase in tire pressure. You'd be suprised how hot tires can get, bring an IR heat gun with you. 120F is at the low end in mid summer where I live
Us Michiganders don't have those worries. Its the spring black ice we worry about. Good call on double checking the accuracy of pump gauges.
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#71
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The value prop is another thing. Zipp name and warranty is worth something to people. But at the same time you could compare to eg. the linked below, customized (note that they can do these with or without hooks) with DT240 hubs etc -- lower overall weight and cost, and while I wouldn't go that high, the rims are rated as capable of holding 110psi (vs the hookless option max indicated of 75psi).
LB AR46 WHEELSET
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Comfort is, of course, subjective. Low pressures that some cyclists find comfortable are too squishy for other cyclists.
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I run 25mm on my fast bike and 28 or 32mm on the others. Many factors come into play and at speed, aerodynamics becomes as important or more important than Crr
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No, it's not a bad thing that they are trying to prevent accidents from the tires blowing off. But, for some people, hookless is unattractive because it places a limit on tire pressure that is lower than with hooked rims. For cyclists of even moderate weight, it means they can no longer runner traditional tire widths that some people prefer. So, although hookless rims have manufacturing advantages and might cost less, it's not clear that they offer any performance advantages to riders.
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They currently sell rim-brake versions of the 303, 404 and 808 and they are all hooked/tubeless.
As aftermarket for wheelbuilders, Zipp still sells a number of disc-brake hooked rims for custom builds. Pro Wheel Builder currently has 6-7 different Zipp rims available and designed for disc brakes, both tubed and tubeless, all with hooks.https://www.prowheelbuilder.com/rims...omposites.html