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Old 08-19-19, 09:51 PM
  #5601  
carleton
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Originally Posted by Kaben View Post
I have a set of Look Keo 2 Max pedals that were adapted by Dolan, they bolted an extra carrier to the back. For double straps the front strap is still done with zip ties. Hopefully these pics make it easier to see. I would imagine it would be easy enough to make a looped bit of steel and bolt it to the pedal body.
Having the rear loop at the back of the pedal ensure the strap stays mid foot rather than just being over the toe area like the fabric straps that attach at the axle.

This is the ideal setup. Similar to what Hoy used. Only one NJS strap needed for one of the most successful and strongest track sprinters ever.


(Yes these are SRAM Omnium cranks. He took his personal race pedals and installed them on his "Hoy Fiorenzuola" entry level track bike line for a photoshoot when the bike was first released a few years ago.)

I wouldn't be surprised if the exact same system.

Further back on the foot provides better energy transfer instead of just through the metatarsals.

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Old 08-20-19, 02:08 AM
  #5602  
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Yeah, I'm often confused by peoples' strap set-ups. Most seem way too forward to me. I've even seen world level riders with their straps basically around their toes.
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Old 08-20-19, 03:57 AM
  #5603  
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this was interesting, saw it on google the other day.
Mira Pedal Strap Adapter - New Blue ? Coach Carl Cycling

I could print these (or something close) off if I knew some dimensions.

There was also a guide (on here I believe) about using old toe straps/cages, chopping up the cage and then fitting it to look (shimano) pedals. I tried that for a project a year or two ago, worked really nice. I can take some pictures later if you want, it was simple, just some $15 cages, a dremel and an hour or so. Modification also isn't as "permanent" as the drilling/tapping method.
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Old 08-20-19, 06:13 AM
  #5604  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
This is the ideal setup. Similar to what Hoy used. Only one NJS strap needed for one of the most successful and strongest track sprinters ever.

I wouldn't be surprised if the exact same system.
Yeah, since its from Dolan himself, i would imagine its the same construction, just made to fit the back of the Look pedal profile. Seems like it has been painted exactly the same by the look of the similar wear.

I wish my pedals wer shimano rather than look though. Much prefer shimano cleats and means i could have same cleats on all my shoes.

Im experimenting with single straps - double njs straps are very secure and comforting but strapping up in a hurry when getting on the boards is a completed pain in the bum. Single strap is much more convenient. And if its good enough for Sir Chris Hoy, then by gods its about 10 times more secure than i need!
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Old 08-20-19, 09:59 AM
  #5605  
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Originally Posted by Morelock View Post
this was interesting, saw it on google the other day.
Mira Pedal Strap Adapter - New Blue ? Coach Carl Cycling

I could print these (or something close) off if I knew some dimensions.
Get out your calipers and measure your pedals and then go into the CAD software and draw it up, test, repeat, until you get it right. That's what I did.

I 3D printed several LOOK and Shimano prototype holders like those in the website.

The problem that I ran into is that the resin eventually shatters because of some small crack that expands. I would imagine that the person selling this is probably experiencing the same. A final product will have to be made a different way (carved, injection molded, or some other way).
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Old 08-20-19, 10:04 AM
  #5606  
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@carleton but I have no Keo pedals to measure

Yeah PLA probably won't hold up. ABS might, or some of the fancier mediums... but my Prusa isn't really set up to handle that stuff (I do keep meaning to build a box for it so I can keep the temp steady and print ABS)

I need to learn how to use a cnc machine for parts like this...
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Old 08-20-19, 10:04 AM
  #5607  
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This is what we use, G-Race straps cable tied to look pedals. They sit across the middle of the foot just fine.

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Old 08-20-19, 10:34 AM
  #5608  
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Originally Posted by Morelock View Post
@carleton but I have no Keo pedals to measure

Yeah PLA probably won't hold up. ABS might, or some of the fancier mediums... but my Prusa isn't really set up to handle that stuff (I do keep meaning to build a box for it so I can keep the temp steady and print ABS)

I need to learn how to use a cnc machine for parts like this...
I'm sure you could find a contract manufacturer if you had the proper specs. Thomson does that.
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Old 08-20-19, 11:01 AM
  #5609  
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I made some strap adapters for Shimano pedal.
I used PETG filament but you still need to reinforce using resin and wires to prevent from layers breaking.
For me this solved the problem.
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Old 08-20-19, 05:56 PM
  #5610  
carleton
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Damn those are nice. Good job, man!
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Old 08-20-19, 09:30 PM
  #5611  
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That's what I consider the best placement of the strap, behind the pedal body itself. I learned this was best for myself using the old school DA 7400 pedals. This is basically the position of the rearward strap in a double strap set-up, and it seem to provide most of the power transfer and fit retention. I've tried the single strap just behind the pedal axle as most do and it just doesn't feel right to me. The strap passing right under the middle of the arch of your foot is the sweet spot.

Last edited by Baby Puke; 08-20-19 at 09:30 PM. Reason: doh!
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Old 08-31-19, 07:46 PM
  #5612  
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Great insights into developing a new strap system. I may have a go at working on one too. Will share my thoughts and product development process.
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Old 09-24-19, 01:16 PM
  #5613  
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https://www.ridemedia.com.au/feature...ment-snapshot/
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Old 09-24-19, 05:19 PM
  #5614  
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Originally Posted by brooklyn6640 View Post
1: I didn't know that Zipp sponsors the AUS team.

2: This...

Zipp logos missing in Pruszkow

“We weren’t ready,” confessed a Zipp representative who knows the inner machinations of the brand very well. Quite simply, he explained, “we don’t have a front disc wheel yet”. In modern pursuit the disc wheel set-up – front and rear – is ubiquitous. It is efficient, fast, reliable and employed by virtually every pursuit entrant.

“We don’t want to just hand over prototype products,” said the Zipp spokesman. “We want to prove that our product is better.

“We’re going to wait until everything is ready,” he concluded, not able to suggest an exact date for this but he estimated that it would be “around September or October… maybe even November or December.”
...means that Zipp is developing new track wheels. These wheel will likely come with wind tunnel receipts (unlike Mavic track wheels).
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Old 09-24-19, 06:38 PM
  #5615  
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What if the Mavic/Campag combo used by Glaetzer was fast(er)est? Wouldn't that be a headf*%# for sponsorship deals
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Old 09-24-19, 08:45 PM
  #5616  
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Originally Posted by brawlo View Post
What if the Mavic/Campag combo used by Glaetzer was fast(er)est? Wouldn't that be a headf*%# for sponsorship deals
True.

My guess is that their is either some marketing gamesmanship going on or production holdups.

Recall that we didn't see the GB bikes until the London Olympics. The Felt TA FRD was only introduced like 3 months before the Rio Olympics.

Wheels are much easier to copy than bikes. It is reasonable that Zipp may be keeping their designs close to the vest for as long as they can to avoid competitors having time enough to copy them. Keep in mind, they may be unveiling wheels for the other Olympic cycling events which may all be of this new generation.
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Old 09-24-19, 11:23 PM
  #5617  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
“We don’t want to just hand over prototype products,” said the Zipp spokesman. “We want to prove that our product is better.
I think this is the telling comment.

I read this as "we don't want to be seen putting a series of prototype wheels under the athletes. When you see them riding our wheels we will have documented proof that they are the fastest and we need the product available to flood the marketplace."

IMO with the wheels that are out there like the Campag, NZ's Southern Spars, Corimas and BC's 3 spoke that are all unproven but purported to be faster than Mavics, making a faster wheel may be a hard ask.

There is also merit in what you say @carleton about not wanting to release the secret weapon to the public too soon though. I wonder if Aus has a deal not to release the wheels until after the Olympics. It wouldn't be a wise move to have a hand in their development and then have half the field riding the same wheels and lose that advantage
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Old 09-25-19, 02:50 PM
  #5618  
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Thanks for all the advice and great reading that has been on here as I get into track racing. Loved my first race I did last week.

Couple of questions though.

1. Any thoughts on Raketa chainrings, cogs and lockrings. I like the idea of a 16 notch BB lockring instead of having to use a lockring tool.

2. I ride on the track twice a week currently and commute by bicycle to work and school. Due to time constraints my outdoor training time is limited. Any tips or recommendations for trainer programs and workouts? I do ride my track bike on the trainer and like the trainer because its so time efficient for a workout.
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Old 09-25-19, 10:40 PM
  #5619  
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Tire glue life

Considering you don't use that special pair of "race wheels" too much, how long can be the glue service - traditional stuff like Conti Carbon or Mastik-1 - be considered reliable?
What would be a recommended time - in years or months - to remove, clean excess and glue again, if the tire is good and everything is looking good?
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Old 09-25-19, 11:02 PM
  #5620  
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Originally Posted by KrispyK View Post
1. Any thoughts on Raketa chainrings, cogs and lockrings. I like the idea of a 16 notch BB lockring instead of having to use a lockring tool.
Nice concept on the lockring tool. Their gear looks to be pricey and only getting your hands on some will tell you if it's worth it. In saying that, there's damn good quality gear out there for cheaper, but it's your money so do what you want.

Originally Posted by KrispyK View Post
2. I ride on the track twice a week currently and commute by bicycle to work and school. Due to time constraints my outdoor training time is limited. Any tips or recommendations for trainer programs and workouts? I do ride my track bike on the trainer and like the trainer because its so time efficient for a workout.
Before I immersed myself with the sprinting side of things, I found the speed endurance sessions from Upupup to be particularly beneficial. I was combining those with shorter ~1.5hr high intensity road rides 2x per week. That workload was enough to get me very competitive in our local club A grade despite my hefty size
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Old 09-26-19, 12:17 AM
  #5621  
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Originally Posted by KrispyK View Post
Thanks for all the advice and great reading that has been on here as I get into track racing. Loved my first race I did last week.

Couple of questions though.

1. Any thoughts on Raketa chainrings, cogs and lockrings. I like the idea of a 16 notch BB lockring instead of having to use a lockring tool.

2. I ride on the track twice a week currently and commute by bicycle to work and school. Due to time constraints my outdoor training time is limited. Any tips or recommendations for trainer programs and workouts? I do ride my track bike on the trainer and like the trainer because its so time efficient for a workout.
I'm glad you are loving the sport!

As far as trainer workouts go, you can use any workout plan that a Road Criterium Racer would use. That would provide a great aerobic foundation. Those programs are easy to find for free. Here are some on Bike Forums: https://www.bikeforums.net/33-road-b...cipe-book.html

You don't need a power meter. You can use a basic heart rate monitor to determine your FTP:

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Old 09-26-19, 07:11 AM
  #5622  
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Originally Posted by Clythio View Post
Considering you don't use that special pair of "race wheels" too much, how long can be the glue service - traditional stuff like Conti Carbon or Mastik-1 - be considered reliable?
What would be a recommended time - in years or months - to remove, clean excess and glue again, if the tire is good and everything is looking good?
Having cleaned glue off rims before, if you can avoid it, that is best.

I had a tubular tear on me once, so I had to clean the glue off to get the tire off. Once started, I had to go all the way until the rim was completely clean. It was a lot of work. There are plenty of solvents out there, but they soften the glue. There is still plenty of elbow grease involved to get it off.

Then you have to make sure the rim is clean of those solvents.
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Old 09-26-19, 07:55 AM
  #5623  
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Several questions, all pertaining to 500m TT:

1. The Analytic Cycling site - is it really far off in predicting performance or even performance changes. Changing weight by 10 kg seems to have a minor effect but changing peak power duration just by a second has a massive effect.

2. For Nationals (USA) I assume that the UCI jig is used to measure the bike. Related to that if I have a custom built frame (it'd be a Tsunami or similar welded aluminum), would it be legal to race? It's definitely not on the UCI list. If not then I'd need to source a custom frame from a build that is UCI approved?

3. Related to that - are 24" wheels legal, if used as a pair? I see that 550mm is the minimum tire height and 24" tubular/road wheels are about 560?mm. However I don't see any pictures or mentions of any competitor using a 24" wheel. Nor 650c for that matter. (Related to that it seems there are no 24" rear wheels out there, and very few 650c rear wheels).

4. Related to that, would there be a measurable benefit to using a 24" or even 650c wheel for the 500m? I figure it would accelerate a bit quicker, and it seems like the most important thing is to get up to speed quickly - it takes a long time to accelerate, so reducing that time would be beneficial. I figured if there was an advantage then someone would be selling them but I don't see any out there.

5. Another wheel related question - is a front disc (700c) a hinderance in the 500m? For indoors I imagine it's okay, but even a 24" disc (I had one a long time ago) is pretty wiggly in any kind of wind.

6. 'm having a hard time seeing if there's an advantage to either sprint bars or aero bars for the 500m. I'm not a super powerful rider compared to some others so I assume that the aero bars would help maintain speed, but I've watched a gazillion 500m clips and it seems to go either way. I know personally that I saw a big pick up in speed with aero bars but that was in a normal time trial, not a 35-40 second effort.

7. For saddles I'm using an ISM now, so I'd either be right on the BB line (sprint bars) or 5 cm back (aero bars). I think those are the rules, unless I'm missing something.

8. Final related to that, if I was using 700c wheels and aero bars I'd have to raise the base bar quite high to clear the front tire, but for a 650c or 24" wheel I could leave the base bar height at the same height as my drops. For sprint bars it seems that they can be below the top of the tire by a decent amount so I'm okay. Running a 650c or 24" wheel would eliminate that measurement concern.
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Old 09-26-19, 09:10 AM
  #5624  
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Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
Several questions, all pertaining to 500m TT:

1. The Analytic Cycling site - is it really far off in predicting performance or even performance changes. Changing weight by 10 kg seems to have a minor effect but changing peak power duration just by a second has a massive effect.

2. For Nationals (USA) I assume that the UCI jig is used to measure the bike. Related to that if I have a custom built frame (it'd be a Tsunami or similar welded aluminum), would it be legal to race? It's definitely not on the UCI list. If not then I'd need to source a custom frame from a build that is UCI approved?

3. Related to that - are 24" wheels legal, if used as a pair? I see that 550mm is the minimum tire height and 24" tubular/road wheels are about 560?mm. However I don't see any pictures or mentions of any competitor using a 24" wheel. Nor 650c for that matter. (Related to that it seems there are no 24" rear wheels out there, and very few 650c rear wheels).

4. Related to that, would there be a measurable benefit to using a 24" or even 650c wheel for the 500m? I figure it would accelerate a bit quicker, and it seems like the most important thing is to get up to speed quickly - it takes a long time to accelerate, so reducing that time would be beneficial. I figured if there was an advantage then someone would be selling them but I don't see any out there.

5. Another wheel related question - is a front disc (700c) a hinderance in the 500m? For indoors I imagine it's okay, but even a 24" disc (I had one a long time ago) is pretty wiggly in any kind of wind.

6. 'm having a hard time seeing if there's an advantage to either sprint bars or aero bars for the 500m. I'm not a super powerful rider compared to some others so I assume that the aero bars would help maintain speed, but I've watched a gazillion 500m clips and it seems to go either way. I know personally that I saw a big pick up in speed with aero bars but that was in a normal time trial, not a 35-40 second effort.

7. For saddles I'm using an ISM now, so I'd either be right on the BB line (sprint bars) or 5 cm back (aero bars). I think those are the rules, unless I'm missing something.

8. Final related to that, if I was using 700c wheels and aero bars I'd have to raise the base bar quite high to clear the front tire, but for a 650c or 24" wheel I could leave the base bar height at the same height as my drops. For sprint bars it seems that they can be below the top of the tire by a decent amount so I'm okay. Running a 650c or 24" wheel would eliminate that measurement concern.
1.) weight should have very, very little impact (almost nil) on a flat track. Peak power for another second however... likely means you are accelerating (standing start is where you'll hit peak power) considerably faster, which will have an impact.
2.) The last few years they have been pretty lax with the jig. That said... you should at the bare minimum contact them and get the head comm's opinion. Quite a few bikes without a uci sticker get used... but it can change on the whim of an official.
3.) To my knowledge, so long as front/back are the same size, you're good
4.) *rough guideline* it comes out a wash. People thought similarly in regards to aerodynamics... smaller leading edge *should* be more aero (vs a 700c wheel) but to compensate you have a longer head tube, again basically a wash.
5.) ride discs when you can. Indoors in a TT, that's always.
6.) when aerobars are legal, you should use them (assuming you have an optimized position, etc etc)
7.) you get to choose one exemption, no questions asked (they don't measure you on the bike, just the bike) - with aerobars it's either a.) at least -5cm saddle to bb and up to 80cm reach, or b.)at most 0cm saddle to bb and up to 75cm reach. There is an extra 5cm reach available to people over 6ft (I can't remember exactly how tall you have to be, again, check out the uci technical guide)
8.) run what you have... again assuming it checks out ok.
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Old 09-26-19, 10:45 AM
  #5625  
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2) Bikes no longer have to be UCI compliant at Masters Nationals. Of course, this may change.

4) 24" wheels will also usually have better aerodynamics because of lower rotational drag. However this is probably offset by the higher rolling resistance of smaller wheels. Rotational drag is hard to test, and I can't think of anyone who has current rolling resistance data of 24" tires.

Another issue is that it's really challenging to find good fast tires at 24" since it's such a rare rim size.
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