WhyFi

"Leftover frame" often means the same frame in a color offered the previous year. Look at places like The Pro's Closet, Excel, Competitive, etc and you'll find $1000 Cervelos and Ridleys, $2000 Lightweights, etc, etc. Even direct from manufacturers like Trek, you'll see last year's colorway at half off.

tomato coupe

They also have "leftover" complete bikes, which would make for a more meaningful comparison.

WhyFi

So price it out to your heart's content and justify it, or don't, however you see fit - this is a rather personal exercise, so whatever floats your boat. Many here are taking the stance that building from the frame up is almost always a losing proposition; others, like myself, are simply saying that it doesn't necessarily have to be.

Succhia Ruota

Building up a new frame with new components will often be more expensive than buying a similarly-spec'd new bike.

The total cost in dollars is not the primary consideration for me.

The foremost driver is that I get the frame I want, with the exact components I want, built precisely the way I want to build it.

Maybe it's hard for some people to wrap their minds around this concept(?)

tomato coupe

You're reading way more into my post than you should. I am merely pointing out that the cost comparison in a previous post is all but meaningless.

WhyFi

If it makes sense to him, it makes sense to him. He spent his money, not yours, so your thoughts on the validity of the comparison don't amount to much.

tomato coupe

I don't care what bike he bought. But, the OP asked if it made sense to buy a complete bike or build one, and the comparison used to compare pricing involves two very different bikes. (new Emonda SL7 vs. year old Colnago, Ulegra Di2 vs. mechanical Campy, disc brake vs. rim, carbon wheels vs. aluminum). You don't think the validity of the comparison is important?

Drew Eckhardt 

I had exactly what I wanted installed on the frame I wanted.

Since then I've made updates as parts wore out, I needed different fit in middle age, power meters became affordable, and I realized I had patience to ride all day which required lights. I still use the original headset and fork.

If I buy a second bike for my weekend place in the Colorado foothills I'll do the same, probably using parts from my shed plus a set of wheels I build because I don't like what's currently available.

Succhia Ruota

It was an open-ended question, asked without any specific caveats and open to subjective interpretation.

DaveSSS 

My build was with a brand new frame, identical to the 2018 model in production at the time and also the same as the 2019 model produced the next year. As noted by others, frames often stay the same for 3 or 4 years. The Campy chorus12 group is a higher level and more costly than ultegra. Shimano may have a comparable component group 2-3 years from now, just as in the past, when Campy was first to have 10 and 11 speed and Shimano followed 4 years later. All of the components are top of the line. The wheels are an extremely well respected model that weigh less than the wheels on the comparison bikes.

The comparison shows that a bike with an equal quality frame and better parts can be assembled for substantially less than many new bikes. Only $1000 of the $2000 lower cost was due to the low priced frame. I could build the same Trek Emonda SL, as good or better parts and not spend more. The SRAM AXS bike could not be built as cheaply, because the AXS groupsets are currently way over priced. I can buy two chorus 12 groupsets for less than one Force AXS group. Only the large OEM companies are getting a good deal from SRAM.

DaveSSS 

When I bought my first Colnago C-RS in July of 2018, I bought it as a complete Shimano 105 equipped bike with saddle, post, stem and bars, all from Colnago. It retailed for $2400, just like the current 105 equipped Emonda SL from Trek. I paid $1400 for it, with free shipping. I stripped it down to the bare frame and fork and sold the build kit on E-bay for $400, so that frame cost me $1000. The second Colnago C-RS that I bought was a new-in the box frame that I got for $700, compared to $1700 MSRP. Those can still be bought from Bike Exchange, as can many other frames from previous years, at substantial discounts.

When I built that first frame back up, the complete bike weighed about 2 pounds less than the original 105 bike and of course it was the latest 12 speed chorus that just came out.

DaveSSS 

Substantially reduced price frames can also be had in disc brake models. Usually they are priced the same, if both disc and rim models are made. If you build a disc bike yourself, all you have to do is find a source for the groupset and compare the disc to rim brakes versions. With the Campy chorus 12 group, it may cost as much as $400 more for the disc brake version, but the difference is lower with Shimano Ultegra, as is the entire groupset price, since it's a lower level product.

Compare a well-priced Ultegra disc group price with the $1060 I paid for my Campy Chorus group. Here's an example, for the ultegra disc group at $860.
https://www.merlincycles.com/en-us/s...et-110281.html
If a rim brake bike was built, the group might be $160 less.
https://www.merlincycles.com/en-us/s...et-102895.html

Disc brake wheelsets, of the same model may cost as little as $100-150 more.

The bottom line is an ultegra disc bike can be built for no more than I spent on my Chorus 12 rim brake bike.

Unfortunately, many companies are now only selling prebuilt bikes with discs, so you pay more and they make more profit.

tomato coupe

Yes, I understand what the frame is and why it was discounted. If you want to make a meaningful cost comparison, however, you don't pit an NOS (new, old-stock) frame against a new bike.

I don't know where you get your numbers from. The Emonda SL7 comes with Ultegra Di2 R8070, which costs considerably more than Chorus 12 mechanical.

The Emonda comes with better wheels. The Aeolus Pro 3 carbon wheels may weigh a little bit more (60 g) than the Zondas, but they're deeper and they're tubeless ready. (They actually weigh 75g less than the disc brake version of the Zonda.)

But, you didn't build the same level of bike for less. If you want your bike to be similar to the Emonda SL7, you need to upgrade to Chorus EPS, disc brakes, and Bora wheels. If you want to make a more meaningful comparison to your present bike, use the Emonda SL6 Pro. It has mechanical Ultegra instead of Di2, but has the same Aeolus Pro 3 carbon wheels. It weighs the same as your bike, and it's presently discounted to $3200 on the Trek website.

DaveSSS 

I did make a mistake in my price comparison. I should have used the Emonda SL6 in my comparison, that only costs $4,000 instead of $5,000 for the SL7, that has Ultegra Di2. I meant to compare bikes with mechanical shifting.

If you add all of the costs for an SL6, it would probably cost at least $300 more, to build one yourself, if the exact same components are used. Trek includes what seems to me to be a very over-priced wheelset for an Ultegra level bike. They show a list price of $1300 for Aeolus pro 3 wheelset, included with the prebuilt bike. To me, that's way out of line for a bike with a $1700 dollar frame and groupset that's under $1000. There are plenty of light carbon wheelsets for less than that.

One strange part of their stock build is the 100mm reach bars and stubby stems, instead of using 80mm reach bars with stems that are 20mm longer.

caloso

That is weird. I have short legs and a long torso so whenever I buy a stock bike I swap in a longer stem. In addition to feeling less bunched up, it slows the steering a touch, which I like.

tomato coupe

What size frame do you ride?

caloso

I usually ride a 54. Stock 54 frames typically come with a 100mm stem and I'll put on a 120.

HTupolev

What Trek is doing shouldn't affect those considerations, except when you're on the tops. By using longer-reach bars and shorter stem, the hood and drop hand contact points end up in the same spot relative to the steering.

The drawback of Trek's approach is that longer-reach bars leave the tops with less knee clearance (i.e. when riding out of the saddle) and the ramps are more likely to interfere with the wrists when riding in the hooks. Beyond those considerations, it's just a matter of where you prefer the tops to be.

noodle soup

This strikes me as very odd. Exactly the opposite of what I want.

Please share the links to this information

tomato coupe

They spec 100mm stems on size 56 and 58 frames, and 90mm stems on size 52 and 54 frames. Not too far from the norm...

noodle soup

100mm reach handlebars are a little longer than average, but I wouldn't consider a 100mm stem to be "stubby".

wheelreason

I'm throwing the equivalent of the red challenge flag here. If you are comparing left over depreciated, discounted stuff to current inventory, the comparison is logically absurd, no matter how it makes him feel, what makes sense to him, how many participation trophies we give him, or how many gold stars we paste on his forehand.

WhyFi

So you're saying that you want a gold star for your opinion? Cool cool.

wheelreason

Nope, just my 3 time outs...

DaveSSS 

Wow, some of you guys get a little too excited over trivial matters. All I did was build a 100% new bike, starting with a 2017 frame that I bought for $700 ($1000 off MSRP). Yesterday I spent about 10 minutes on some google searches and found the 2020 Chorus 12 groupset for only $925 from velomine, the top of the line Easton EC90 carbon bars for $175 from Jenson, an FSA K-force carbon post for $150 from bicycle buys, Zipp service course stem for $80 from amazon, SMP Stratos saddle for $175 from amazon, Zonda wheels for $330 from pro bike kit, Michelin power endurance tires for $100 (pair) and lightweight tubes for $20. The total for all of these items is $2655. Seems like a lot of bike for little more than the cost of a typical 105 level bike that weighs 3.5 lbs more. It also weighs in at 1.2 lbs less than a Trek Emonda SL 6 that costs $4,000. Disc brakes add a lot of weight and expense. When you build a bike yourself you can pick and choose what you want. There are big name brand disc frames available at big discounts too. You just have to look.