Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Seller refuses to open box

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Seller refuses to open box

Old 05-17-20, 07:54 PM
  #26  
thinktubes 
weapons-grade bolognium
 
thinktubes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Across the street from Chicago
Posts: 5,625

Bikes: Battaglin Cromor, Ciocc Designer 84, Schwinn Superior 1981

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 727 Post(s)
Liked 986 Times in 464 Posts
I usually block buyers with these types of requests - red flag.
thinktubes is offline  
Likes For thinktubes:
Old 05-17-20, 08:20 PM
  #27  
onyerleft
Senior Member
 
onyerleft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,057

Bikes: Pedaling for the Lord!

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 500 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 185 Times in 132 Posts
I don't blame the seller. Why should he break the seal just to satisfy some (potential) deadbeat flake who will respond as follows: "Thanks for the picture, now I've got to see if I can get 20 bucks together."
onyerleft is offline  
Likes For onyerleft:
Old 05-17-20, 08:46 PM
  #28  
cb400bill
Follow Your Arrow
 
cb400bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kalamazoo MI
Posts: 19,684

Bikes: Fuji SL2.1 Carbon Di2 Cannondale Synapse Alloy 4 Trek Checkpoint ALR gravel Viscount Aerospace Pro

Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2514 Post(s)
Liked 3,286 Times in 2,002 Posts
Originally Posted by countalmaviva View Post
I also wanted to add that, in this particular case, I'm aware that this lever came in a few different colors. Some dipped in rubber and some not. I can't tell from the outside of the box what this particular lever looks like. I may be a very particular case: I'm trying to find the levers I used as a kid, for sentimental purposes. If it's the wrong color, I'm not sure that would be returnable, especially since I'd already have opened the sealed box...

- Oliver H.
Have you thought that maybe, just maybe, if you asked him what color the levers were that he'd answer.you?
cb400bill is offline  
Likes For cb400bill:
Old 05-17-20, 09:13 PM
  #29  
countalmaviva 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
countalmaviva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York City
Posts: 106

Bikes: 1985 Fuji League with S&S couplers, Bridgestone Regulus, and many others now between other legs.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Liked 31 Times in 20 Posts
Originally Posted by clubman View Post
I think otherwise. Frank has made the choice of selling a sealed item that he won't open. You have the choice of bidding or not. You can't tell him he has to open it but you can return it if the box doesn't contain the described item. You don't have the right to change the terms of the offer.
I love this. It's my first post to attract more than 10 replies, y'all!

Completely understand clubman . It's genuinely helpful to help me understand the perspective of sellers who are experienced with vintage items. I'm calling on this community to help me understand whether I'm being reasonable or not. You say "no."

FWIW, I'm more interested in the discussion than spending $20, though I should add that, in these times, $20 may be a lot for some folks. So far, I count 14 replies in support of not opening the box and 2 in favor of opening the box. Those 14 should be qualified: 7 of those mention Frank's reputation on this forum, which an ordinary buyer might not know. I appreciate the veteran vintage sellers' perspectives on a sealed box. Clearly, many of you feel that a sealed box trumps a photo of the item inside for the purposes of resale value on eBay.

I'll reiterate my earlier observation, which I know because I happened to ride these levers in the 80s: they came in multiple colors and coatings. Also, Google. These details are not made clear in the auction. Many who rebuild vintage bikes as a hobby are fond of color coordinating, so I thought this was not an unimportant point, though no one has responded to it.

Is there an eBay admin here who could offer some statistics? What, if any, difference is there in final sale price between auctions which display the item and those which don't but which are NIB? The mitigating factors in this particular case are: I'm a potential buyer who is looking for a specific color which is not specified on the box. Thus, the buyer is losing my bid, which would drive up the price. Also, there are a lot of prospective buyers out there who don't know of Frank the Welder's fine reputation on this forum.

Personally, I love it when a seller takes a photo of the item in the box. I get that dopamine hit that, let's face it, we all feel when we see a brand-spanking new vintage item. I mean, we're here because we love vintage bikes, so part of the sale is seeing the stuff, right? Does anyone here buy parts in a new, sealed box and NOT open the darn thing?

Then again, maybe I've just answered my own question...getting to be the first person to open the box. Is that a vintage fetish I have yet to discover?

Cheers,
Oliver H.
countalmaviva is offline  
Old 05-17-20, 09:14 PM
  #30  
countalmaviva 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
countalmaviva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York City
Posts: 106

Bikes: 1985 Fuji League with S&S couplers, Bridgestone Regulus, and many others now between other legs.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Liked 31 Times in 20 Posts
Originally Posted by cb400bill View Post
Have you thought that maybe, just maybe, if you asked him what color the levers were that he'd answer.you?
But he'd have to OPEN THE BOX, right?
countalmaviva is offline  
Old 05-17-20, 09:18 PM
  #31  
cb400bill
Follow Your Arrow
 
cb400bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kalamazoo MI
Posts: 19,684

Bikes: Fuji SL2.1 Carbon Di2 Cannondale Synapse Alloy 4 Trek Checkpoint ALR gravel Viscount Aerospace Pro

Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2514 Post(s)
Liked 3,286 Times in 2,002 Posts
Originally Posted by countalmaviva View Post
But he'd have to OPEN THE BOX, right?
Maybe, maybe not. But, you won’t know if you don’t ask.
cb400bill is offline  
Likes For cb400bill:
Old 05-17-20, 09:21 PM
  #32  
SurferRosa
Señor Member
 
SurferRosa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 4,661

Bikes: Old school lightweights

Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1912 Post(s)
Liked 2,165 Times in 1,206 Posts
Maru would definitely bid on that box.

SurferRosa is offline  
Likes For SurferRosa:
Old 05-17-20, 09:39 PM
  #33  
P!N20
Senior Member
 
P!N20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,522
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 671 Post(s)
Liked 815 Times in 445 Posts
Originally Posted by countalmaviva View Post
Is that a vintage fetish I have yet to discover?
Get ready...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CAMPAGNOLO-...YAAOSw8t1eg6bd
P!N20 is offline  
Old 05-17-20, 10:03 PM
  #34  
jiangshi
OFG in Exile
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,809
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 448 Post(s)
Liked 162 Times in 112 Posts
Originally Posted by P!N20 View Post
I have a Super Record box I would sell for ten times that. It is empty, as well.
jiangshi is offline  
Old 05-17-20, 10:29 PM
  #35  
Last ride 76 
1/2 as far in 2x the time
 
Last ride 76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Northern Bergen County, NJ
Posts: 1,935

Bikes: Yes, Please.

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 499 Post(s)
Liked 281 Times in 219 Posts
Originally Posted by countalmaviva View Post
But he'd have to OPEN THE BOX, right?
No.


There are other ways he might know. At least you would have gotten as much information as you could, in the circumstances. Then bid, or don't bid. You decide.

Btw- News Flash: What seems like the best sales practice to you, may not be, for him. The seller is using his best judgement, in light of his past experience.


You've heard from some other highly experienced folks here that a factory sealed box will command a premium among the right buyers... (who may or not may not be present during any given auction.) I concur. We are basing this on a lot of accumulated experience. Those disagree, probably have less experience, (at least in this very specific area). OP, the original question was reasonable, and thoroughly discussed.

Cheers, Eric

Good luck, what ever you choose.
__________________
I seem to have lost what little mind I had left before this all started.
Last ride 76 is offline  
Likes For Last ride 76:
Old 05-17-20, 11:01 PM
  #36  
unworthy1
Stop reading my posts!
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,451
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 793 Post(s)
Liked 361 Times in 294 Posts
"Frank the Welder"? I'd just hand him the keys (house, car, safe, speed boat) and say "have fun"! I'd trust him with it, whatever "it" might be.
unworthy1 is offline  
Likes For unworthy1:
Old 05-17-20, 11:34 PM
  #37  
branko_76 
Senior Member
 
branko_76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: The Urban Shores Of Michigami
Posts: 1,328

Bikes: ........................................ .....Holdsworth "Special"..... .......Falcon "Special".......... .....Raleigh "Super GP"...... ........................................

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 522 Post(s)
Liked 419 Times in 269 Posts
You should buy it. If it's not the color you want, you can list it on ebay with a photo of the actual item. Someone will gladly pay twice what you did because he or she won't have to go through the trouble of holding a town hall meeting.
branko_76 is offline  
Likes For branko_76:
Old 05-17-20, 11:51 PM
  #38  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 26,053
Mentioned: 209 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14462 Post(s)
Liked 2,434 Times in 1,812 Posts
Ultimately this is a $20 part. Just open the box.

Especially since the box has diagrams of about 3 different styles of levers. And check boxes. But, this one is "none of the above", and has a printed label attached.

I've tried to search for the SS-5S levers on the web, and seem to be getting links to everything but that one.

I would allow the seller to download a 3rd party photo as long as they are willing to guarantee their photo matches what is in the box.
CliffordK is offline  
Old 05-18-20, 05:36 AM
  #39  
RobbieTunes
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,297
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 1,374 Times in 888 Posts
It's $20 now....

Get over yourself. Better yet, put on a mask, go to Wal-Mart, finger every item on the rack and not buy a thing.

We sometimes think the customer is always right. Not. Many times, the customer feels entitled becomes someone, somewhere, said "you should" or even worse "they should." The evil "they!"

If the information provided is enough for you, fine. If not, move on. Not satisfied? Don't bid, don't buy.

Pretty simple. Children understand it immediately. Adults at some point start to rationalize differently.

Last edited by RobbieTunes; 05-18-20 at 05:40 AM.
RobbieTunes is offline  
Old 05-18-20, 06:41 AM
  #40  
mkeller234
Rustbelt Rider
 
mkeller234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canton, OH
Posts: 8,988

Bikes: 1990 Trek 1420 - 1978 Raleigh Professional - 1973 Schwinn Collegiate - 1974 Schwinn Suburban

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Liked 254 Times in 116 Posts
SS-5 appears to be black... based on google images. Take that for what it's worth.
__________________
|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^| ||
|......GO.BROWNS........| ||'|";, ___.
|_..._..._______===|=||_|__|..., ] -
"(@)'(@)"""''"**|(@)(@)*****''(@)
mkeller234 is offline  
Old 05-18-20, 06:46 AM
  #41  
countalmaviva 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
countalmaviva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York City
Posts: 106

Bikes: 1985 Fuji League with S&S couplers, Bridgestone Regulus, and many others now between other legs.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Liked 31 Times in 20 Posts
Originally Posted by P!N20 View Post
Bwahahahaha!
countalmaviva is offline  
Old 05-18-20, 06:58 AM
  #42  
bark_eater 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Eastern Shore, MD
Posts: 1,433

Bikes: Road ready: 1993 Koga Miyata City Liner Touring Hybrid, 1989 Centurion Sport DLX, "I Blame GP" Bridgestone CB-1. Projects: Yea, I got a problem....

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 486 Post(s)
Liked 228 Times in 165 Posts
Im going to throw out a scenario. The seller may be trying to make a small profit selling an item at fair market value. To do that he may well be concidering the value of his own time and efficiantly processing the items for sale. So the item you are interseted may allready be packed in a sealed mailing carton. So if you are asking him to undo work and change the condition of the item resulting in more work for him in repacking and haveing to revise the listing. Why dont you offer him $5 to open the box?

P.S. I'm not directing this at the OP in particular. I've been thinking about how to unload stuff on ebay with least amount of hassle, or potential disappointment for all partys.

P.P.S. Value is a funny thing. I made a purchase a while back that the seller made a point of the item being in its original packageing, with pictures of the boxes condition. He the mailed it in the origial box wraped in tape, with a mailing sticker. Thats what neutral feedbacks for.

Last edited by bark_eater; 05-18-20 at 07:19 AM.
bark_eater is online now  
Likes For bark_eater:
Old 05-18-20, 07:03 AM
  #43  
countalmaviva 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
countalmaviva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York City
Posts: 106

Bikes: 1985 Fuji League with S&S couplers, Bridgestone Regulus, and many others now between other legs.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Liked 31 Times in 20 Posts
It's not the price...or is it?

OK, what if this wasn't a cheap Japanese brake lever from the 90s for $20?

What if, borrowing an above example, it was a first gen Campy Super Record RD in a sealed box from 1973? Let's imagine there's some detail not elaborated on the box. Maybe a Campy fan can provide an example...maybe Tullio put some in the tumbler with the balls and some he didn't, so the finish is different.

If you were the seller, would you open this box to be able to tell buyers about the item? Or, would the high value make it even more important to keep the box sealed?

Cheers,
Oliver H.
countalmaviva is offline  
Old 05-18-20, 07:16 AM
  #44  
Kilroy1988 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Visalia, CA
Posts: 1,525
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 648 Post(s)
Liked 443 Times in 218 Posts
If it were a first-generation Campagnolo Super Record RD in the sealed box, I wouldn't sell it to anyone I suspected of wanting to open the box. It should stay sealed.

Some vintage things are worth more in the box - look at collectible toys, for example. The rarest of the rare NOS bicycle parts count among those objects. I don't personally think these Dia-Compe levers are worth more in the box because they are nothing special, but since they are new in the box and advertised as such, I do agree that it might seem unreasonable to ask to remove them prior to the time of sale.

-Gregory
Kilroy1988 is offline  
Old 05-18-20, 07:44 AM
  #45  
2old
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: socal
Posts: 3,020
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 565 Post(s)
Liked 347 Times in 257 Posts
Doubt they will go for $20, but I wouldn't worry about spending that amount for a seller with 100% rating. I'd like the Brooklyn pedals, but $750 is a little steep (for me), plus my shins already have plenty of "wear marks".
2old is offline  
Old 05-18-20, 08:00 AM
  #46  
joesch
Senior Member
 
joesch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Hotel CA / DFW
Posts: 1,001

Bikes: 83 Colnago Super, 87 50th Daccordi, 79 & 87 Guerciotti's, 90s Colnago Master and Titanio, 96 Serotta Colorado TG, 95/05 Colnago C40/C50, 06 DbyLS TI, 08 Lemond Filmore FG SS, 12 Cervelo R3, 20/15 Surly Stragler & Steamroller

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 311 Post(s)
Liked 226 Times in 161 Posts
Originally Posted by merziac View Post
That is an auction by a member here, $20, not a big leap, efbay has your back. If you want them, buy them, seller is a standup guy.
Agree. New Old Stock and sealed. Buy and hope for good packaging and safe shipping.
joesch is offline  
Old 05-18-20, 08:04 AM
  #47  
The Golden Boy 
Extraordinary Magnitude
 
The Golden Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Waukesha WI
Posts: 12,806

Bikes: 1978 Trek TX700; 1978/79 Trek 736; 1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1984 Schwinn Voyageur SP; 1985 Trek 620; 1985 Trek 720; 1986 Trek 400 Elance; 1987 Schwinn High Sierra; 1990 Miyata 1000LT

Mentioned: 77 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2276 Post(s)
Liked 787 Times in 481 Posts
“Red Snapper. VERY tasty.”
__________________
*Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Person Of The Year" Award*

Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!

"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
The Golden Boy is offline  
Likes For The Golden Boy:
Old 05-18-20, 10:18 AM
  #48  
countalmaviva 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
countalmaviva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York City
Posts: 106

Bikes: 1985 Fuji League with S&S couplers, Bridgestone Regulus, and many others now between other legs.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Liked 31 Times in 20 Posts
Originally Posted by 2old View Post
Doubt they will go for $20, but I wouldn't worry about spending that amount for a seller with 100% rating. I'd like the Brooklyn pedals, but $750 is a little steep (for me), plus my shins already have plenty of "wear marks".
I love Frank's comment in the description:
"These are the ones you have been looking for."

I'll definitely be watching these pedals, out of curiosity.

- Oliver H.
countalmaviva is offline  
Likes For countalmaviva:
Old 05-18-20, 10:20 AM
  #49  
countalmaviva 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
countalmaviva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York City
Posts: 106

Bikes: 1985 Fuji League with S&S couplers, Bridgestone Regulus, and many others now between other legs.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Liked 31 Times in 20 Posts
Originally Posted by The Golden Boy View Post
“Red Snapper. VERY tasty.”
I only got this reference with assistance, thanks be to Google.
countalmaviva is offline  
Likes For countalmaviva:
Old 05-18-20, 10:39 AM
  #50  
Piff 
Senior Member
 
Piff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Southern California
Posts: 942
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 428 Post(s)
Liked 179 Times in 118 Posts
Originally Posted by Kilroy1988 View Post
If it were a first-generation Campagnolo Super Record RD in the sealed box, I wouldn't sell it to anyone I suspected of wanting to open the box. It should stay sealed.
I'm confused--are you saying you wouldn't sell such a derailleur to someone who'd actually be inclined to using it?
Piff is offline  
Likes For Piff:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.