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A Bike is a Bike

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

A Bike is a Bike

Old 07-16-20, 01:01 PM
  #26  
AlgarveCycling
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Originally Posted by sced View Post
With a 34 in back and modern brake pads, a 40 year old bike might weight a few pounds more but will definitely keep a good rider in the hunt. I think young people don't really understand how much fun a lightly modernized classic can be.
I used to race in the 80's at National Championship level and finished top 10, top 3 at regionals. I know all about racing on steel bikes with toe clips etc and at the time it was all we knew and it was great. A modernised classic from that era now would be a very nice ride indeed and for Club duty etc wonderful - as you say, a strong rider isn't going to worry about the advantages a 2021 bike can bring to the table if his/her opponents aren't at the same strength level and the vintage bike is simply preferred.

Doesn't change the fact that the same strong rider will post faster times on a modern bike if he/she had goals that required those quicker times.
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Old 07-16-20, 01:34 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by big chainring View Post
A few years ago I was in the LBS, the owner a too notch frame builder. I had a new to me vintage steel bike that I had just rehabbed. I was telling the owner just how amazing the bike rode. His response, "its got handlebars, pedals, wheels...it should ride well." Translation, a bike is a bike.

Two weeks ago I was out on a ride and joined in with a group. They were from a neighborhood that I once lived in, so we had some commonality. I was on another vintage steel bike. One of the guys quipped, "you do pretty well for being in an old bike." My response was, "to me a bike is a bike".

On flat terrain I cant imagine there is a difference in how my power is being delivered to drive the bike compared to a modern bike. And at the speeds we were riding, very little disadvantage to an old steel bike. On a hill, maybe I have a slight disadvantage with being on a heavier bike. Anyway I find it an interesting perception that a grand old steel bike would put me at a disadvantage or hinder my riding in some way.

In my youth there was an old timer that would show up to track races on his vintage track bike with inch pitch chain. And road races he had an older bike that looked antiquated compared to what everyone else was riding. But the guy had amazing endurance and speed. Not to mention some crafty moves and tactics. He was never to be discounted and often "stole" a prime ir two in a race.

Whats your perception? Is the bike a large part of the equation or is it a tool that is more or less equivalent from one to the other?
u my friend are a heathen
blasphemy....
impossible....be gone naive.
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Old 07-16-20, 01:36 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by upthywazzoo View Post
What happened?
He got busted for doping and ultimately ended up dying alone in a hotel room of a drug overdose. I saw him while I was riding to the stage victory at the Bianchi factory during the ‘95 Giro. Quite a thrill. He was sitting out the race due to a training injury to rehab for the TdF and must have been out for a little spin. There is a terrific documentary about his rise and fall. Can’t recall the title.
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Old 07-16-20, 01:52 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by AlgarveCycling View Post
I used to race in the 80's at National Championship level and finished top 10, top 3 at regionals. .
You must know Tom Prehn.
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Old 07-16-20, 02:23 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
Assuming a rider is right handed you'd use the left hand downtube shifter to change the front derailleur a lot less often than using the right hand shifter to change the rear derailleur. Right? Or left?

Word salad is served!
If the bike actually fits reasonably well, and if the geometry doesn't obstruct your wrist on one side from accessing the downtube shifter on the opposite side, you'd generally have no problems using both shifters with one hand. Because of this, they're actually quite fantastic when double-shifting, since you can shift both derailleurs with a flick of a single hand. My bike with downtube shifters has a wide-spaced freewheel and the 52-42 crankset ends up 1.5-stepping the cogs, so when I'm cruising along in a tight-gearing mood, I actually tend to make extremely frequent front shifts on that bike. (Obviously it also helps that the ~24% 10-tooth chainring gap makes for extremely snappy front shifts.)
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Old 07-16-20, 02:48 PM
  #31  
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Well, a bike is a bike.

I switched from a 10kg bike with steel fork, 3x8 gears and rim brakes to a 8.5kg bike with a carbon fork, 2x11 gears and hydraulic discs. My times have improved exactly by zero.

Road bikes have seen little meaningful improvements in the last 20 years apart from brifters.

If we talk mountain bikes it's another history. Specially on the suspension and brake department.
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Old 07-16-20, 02:59 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Amt0571 View Post
Well, a bike is a bike.

I switched from a 10kg bike with steel fork, 3x8 gears and rim brakes to a 8.5kg bike with a carbon fork, 2x11 gears and hydraulic discs. My times have improved exactly by zero.
Sounds like you haven't yet figured out what matters most in going fast.
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Old 07-16-20, 03:01 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Amt0571 View Post
Well, a bike is a bike.

I switched from a 10kg bike with steel fork, 3x8 gears and rim brakes to a 8.5kg bike with a carbon fork, 2x11 gears and hydraulic discs. My times have improved exactly by zero.

Road bikes have seen little meaningful improvements in the last 20 years apart from brifters.

If we talk mountain bikes it's another history. Specially on the suspension and brake department.
(Looks at all the PRs I've been getting on Strava the last few weeks on my new bike on roads I've been riding for 25 years) Hmmmmmm...
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Old 07-16-20, 03:12 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
Sounds like you haven't yet figured out what matters most in going fast.
Considering most of my rides consist in 75% climbing steep grades at less than 20km/h and 25% descending, I can assure you in my case it's not aero frames and deep section wheels.

So far, the extra gears and weight reduction have produced an undetectable improvement. Hydro brakes are really nice when descending though, but mostly for comfort reasons.
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Old 07-16-20, 05:33 PM
  #35  
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I guarantee you that you will never make it to the top of the Monte Zoncolan on your steel bike.

on flat group rides with the 30% energy saving from drafting, you could ride any vintage steel bike and manage to follow a guy from your same level of fitness in front of you with a $10,000 bike.

nobody here would be able to compete against Jacques Anquetil or Greg Lemond even if they were riding steel bikes, including me.
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Old 07-16-20, 05:46 PM
  #36  
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Ride whatever you enjoy.
I have ridden for many years and until recently still had some older bikes.
I have since sold them as the reality was that I enjoy riding my modern bikes more.
When I walked out to the garage to choose which bike to ride it was virtually never the old bikes.
So they just ended up sitting there not being used.
Yes they can be cool to look at, talk about at the coffee shop etc but for me that isn't important enough to have them laying around cluttering up my garage.
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Old 07-16-20, 05:57 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by big chainring View Post
A bike is a bike.
A bike is not a bike.

Is that the other option?
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Old 07-16-20, 06:57 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Amt0571 View Post
Considering most of my rides consist in 75% climbing steep grades at less than 20km/h and 25% descending, I can assure you in my case it's not aero frames and deep section wheels.

So far, the extra gears and weight reduction have produced an undetectable improvement. Hydro brakes are really nice when descending though, but mostly for comfort reasons.
Check out rolling resistance.
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Old 07-16-20, 08:22 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by big chainring View Post
A few years ago I was in the LBS, the owner a too notch frame builder. I had a new to me vintage steel bike that I had just rehabbed. I was telling the owner just how amazing the bike rode. His response, "its got handlebars, pedals, wheels...it should ride well." Translation, a bike is a bike.

Two weeks ago I was out on a ride and joined in with a group. They were from a neighborhood that I once lived in, so we had some commonality. I was on another vintage steel bike. One of the guys quipped, "you do pretty well for being in an old bike." My response was, "to me a bike is a bike".

On flat terrain I cant imagine there is a difference in how my power is being delivered to drive the bike compared to a modern bike. And at the speeds we were riding, very little disadvantage to an old steel bike. On a hill, maybe I have a slight disadvantage with being on a heavier bike. Anyway I find it an interesting perception that a grand old steel bike would put me at a disadvantage or hinder my riding in some way.

In my youth there was an old timer that would show up to track races on his vintage track bike with inch pitch chain. And road races he had an older bike that looked antiquated compared to what everyone else was riding. But the guy had amazing endurance and speed. Not to mention some crafty moves and tactics. He was never to be discounted and often "stole" a prime ir two in a race.

Whats your perception? Is the bike a large part of the equation or is it a tool that is more or less equivalent from one to the other?
let me guess,
you always ride on the big chainring?
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Old 07-16-20, 09:23 PM
  #40  
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For some "a bike is a bike." not for me. it is a hobby for me and if I can afford it I want nice bike to look at and feels good when I ride. I don't race, I do train but for fitness reason.
It is almost same as people buying expensive car. A car is a car it take you from A to B but people still buying fast cars, expensive cars even though you are not allow to drive 100mph all the time, not to mention most of them are not a racers.
If I like what I ride that's all it matters.
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Old 07-16-20, 11:45 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
Check out rolling resistance.
Tried with same tires. Now I'm using better ones that feel safer when cornering at high speed, but still make no noticeable difference on final times.

Trust me that I'm literally bored of doing the same rides again and again, mainly because I do a long distance commute to work twice a week, and been doing it for a few years with both bikes. I can ride the 30km and 700+m of elevation again and again with less than 30 seconds of ride time difference.
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Old 07-17-20, 12:11 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by sced View Post
You must know Tom Prehn.
No, I'm not American.
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Old 07-17-20, 04:57 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Amt0571 View Post
Tried with same tires. Now I'm using better ones that feel safer when cornering at high speed, but still make no noticeable difference on final times.
That's not what rolling resistance means.

In any case, there are certainly differences that result in time improvements by adjusting rolling resistance, aerodynamics, and weight. You may not feel they're significant enough to notice, but it's just physics. It doesn't not happen.
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Old 07-17-20, 05:32 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
That's not what rolling resistance means.

In any case, there are certainly differences that result in time improvements by adjusting rolling resistance, aerodynamics, and weight. You may not feel they're significant enough to notice, but it's just physics. It doesn't not happen.
I didn't say they don't happen. I think they're meaningless to a non-professional rider though. Who cares about 30 seconds every 50km?
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Old 07-17-20, 05:43 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Amt0571 View Post
I didn't say they don't happen. I think they're meaningless to a non-professional rider though. Who cares about 30 seconds every 50km?
Me. I do. I'm not a Pro, far from it, but those seconds could still mean the difference between 1st place and 4th place in my age category at a race I want to win. Why do you need to be paid before competition becomes worthwhile?

Just because small margins are meaningless to you, it doesn't make them meaningless to someone else. We all have different goals, different desires, we can't project our situations upon others and expect them to be the same.
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Old 07-17-20, 06:39 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Amt0571 View Post
I didn't say they don't happen. I think they're meaningless to a non-professional rider though.
Well yeah, you did say that in your first post.
I switched from a 10kg bike with steel fork, 3x8 gears and rim brakes to a 8.5kg bike with a carbon fork, 2x11 gears and hydraulic discs. My times have improved exactly by zero.

Road bikes have seen little meaningful improvements in the last 20 years apart from brifters.


Who cares about 30 seconds every 50km?
People who care about going fast, obviously.

Last edited by rubiksoval; 07-17-20 at 06:42 AM.
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Old 07-17-20, 06:44 AM
  #47  
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My club has a TT series through the summer. Last month I averaged 23.6mph on the road bike with 25mm GP5000s, last night I averaged 23.5mph on the gravel bike with 40mm Terra Speeds. So yeah, a bike is pretty much a bike.

But yes, if every second matters, then there are bikes that will give you those marginal gains. But for training and group rides, ride whatever you like.
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Old 07-17-20, 07:07 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Rides4Beer View Post
My club has a TT series through the summer. Last month I averaged 23.6mph on the road bike with 25mm GP5000s, last night I averaged 23.5mph on the gravel bike with 40mm Terra Speeds. So yeah, a bike is pretty much a bike.
With identical power output? Wow!
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Old 07-17-20, 07:23 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
With identical power output? Wow!
Not likely! lol I don't have a power meter tho. Just saying that there's not earth shattering differences between quality bikes. Yes, a road bike is faster, yes, a TT bike is even faster still. I still can't touch the times I did last summer on an aero bike with clip on aero bars, even tho my fitness has improved a good bit. For me, it's just not worth having a TT bike to only do a few races a year, but it would be fun to really maximize my power/speed.
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Old 07-17-20, 07:35 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Rides4Beer View Post
Not likely! lol I don't have a power meter tho. Just saying that there's not earth shattering differences between quality bikes.
Shucks.

Well, that's a disappointing conclusion.
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