Go Back  Bike Forums > The Lounge > Foo
Reload this Page >

Does time cause gravity?

Notices
Foo Light hearted off-topic chit chat with no general subject.

Does time cause gravity?

Old 02-24-21, 09:15 PM
  #1  
late
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
late's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Southern Maine
Posts: 8,695
Mentioned: 120 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10490 Post(s)
Liked 624 Times in 476 Posts
Does time cause gravity?

This may just mess with your head.

late is offline  
Likes For late:
Old 02-24-21, 09:34 PM
  #2  
ahsposo 
Major Member
 
ahsposo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: BQ
Posts: 7,143

Bikes: A Home Built All Rounder, Bianchi 928, Specialized Langster, Dahon Folder

Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5434 Post(s)
Liked 2,755 Times in 1,628 Posts
Time is an illusion. Just ask 3alarmer .
ahsposo is offline  
Old 02-24-21, 10:02 PM
  #3  
Hondo Gravel
es ist mir egal
 
Hondo Gravel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Hondo,Texas
Posts: 2,063

Bikes: Too many Motobecanes

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2183 Post(s)
Liked 2,278 Times in 1,472 Posts
Time is the indefinite continued progress of existence and events that occur in an apparently irreversiblesuccession from the past, through the present, into the future.[1][2][3] It is a component quantity of various measurements used to sequence events, to compare the duration of events or the intervals between them, and to quantify rates of change of quantities in material reality or in the conscious experience.[4][5][6][7] Time is often referred to as a fourth dimension, along with three spatial dimensions.[8]

Time has long been an important subject of study in religion, philosophy, and science, but defining it in a manner applicable to all fields without circularity has consistently eluded scholars.[7][9] Nevertheless, diverse fields such as business, industry, sports, the sciences, and the performing arts all incorporate some notion of time into their respective measuring systems.[10][11][12]

Hondo Gravel is offline  
Likes For Hondo Gravel:
Old 02-24-21, 10:14 PM
  #4  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 22,130
Mentioned: 78 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15248 Post(s)
Liked 6,474 Times in 3,659 Posts
Time is a hoax. You can't believe everything you see in the MSM.
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Likes For Seattle Forrest:
Old 02-25-21, 07:17 AM
  #5  
late
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
late's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Southern Maine
Posts: 8,695
Mentioned: 120 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10490 Post(s)
Liked 624 Times in 476 Posts
So nobody watched the video.

Oh, well..
late is offline  
Old 02-25-21, 08:10 AM
  #6  
jack pot 
Fxxxxr
 
jack pot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: falfurrias texas
Posts: 817

Bikes: wabi classic (stolen & recovered)

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2014 Post(s)
Liked 828 Times in 622 Posts
... start here before you try to understand (if) time causes gravity
__________________
Nothing is true---everything is permitted
jack pot is offline  
Old 02-25-21, 08:25 AM
  #7  
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 26,733

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10668 Post(s)
Liked 2,713 Times in 1,864 Posts
Originally Posted by late View Post
So nobody watched the video.

Oh, well..
Working on it... will have to finish at a later gravity.
genec is offline  
Likes For genec:
Old 02-25-21, 08:41 AM
  #8  
skidder
Bipsycorider
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 1,338

Bikes: Why yes, I do have a few! Thank you for asking!

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 646 Post(s)
Liked 411 Times in 287 Posts
I got through the two boats in the stream example, but got lost after that, I'll have to watch it again later on. I guess its possible, as you accelerate through time you gain some mass, thus gain gravity. But what about opposing objects passing near enough to each other at the same time - how does each one's gravity effect the other, much less each one's concept of time? (especially very large objects?)

Now throw in the space-time distortion concept that was proven in the last few years and you've really got a confusing concept to straighten out (pun intended). .

Last edited by skidder; 02-25-21 at 08:46 AM.
skidder is offline  
Old 02-25-21, 08:59 AM
  #9  
ahsposo 
Major Member
 
ahsposo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: BQ
Posts: 7,143

Bikes: A Home Built All Rounder, Bianchi 928, Specialized Langster, Dahon Folder

Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5434 Post(s)
Liked 2,755 Times in 1,628 Posts
My issue is accepting the premise that "clocks" run slower near large mass. His GPS error example just doesn't ring true.
ahsposo is offline  
Old 02-25-21, 09:12 AM
  #10  
locolobo13 
Senior Member
 
locolobo13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Phx, AZ
Posts: 1,914

Bikes: Trek Mtn Bike

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 207 Post(s)
Liked 1,134 Times in 365 Posts
I'm pretty sure the older you get the higher the gravitational constant is. Everything weighs about twice what it did when I was young.
locolobo13 is offline  
Old 02-25-21, 09:31 AM
  #11  
Altair 4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Along the Rivers of Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,148

Bikes: 2011 Novara Forza Hybrid, 2005 Trek 820, 1989 Cannondale SR500 Black Lightning, 1975 Mundo Cycles Caloi Racer

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 182 Post(s)
Liked 151 Times in 87 Posts
Originally Posted by ahsposo View Post
time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.
fify.
Altair 4 is offline  
Old 02-25-21, 12:01 PM
  #12  
DiabloScott
It's MY mountain
 
DiabloScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mt.Diablo
Posts: 9,307

Bikes: Klein, Merckx, Trek

Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3020 Post(s)
Liked 1,043 Times in 599 Posts
Photons appear to bend in gravitational fields but at speed =c they are straight lines.

I watch a lot of mind blowing physics stuff.
DiabloScott is offline  
Old 02-25-21, 02:17 PM
  #13  
skidder
Bipsycorider
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 1,338

Bikes: Why yes, I do have a few! Thank you for asking!

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 646 Post(s)
Liked 411 Times in 287 Posts
Originally Posted by ahsposo View Post
My issue is accepting the premise that "clocks" run slower near large mass. His GPS error example just doesn't ring true.
Its all relative . . .
skidder is offline  
Old 02-25-21, 03:48 PM
  #14  
mtnbud
Senior Member
 
mtnbud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Salem Oregon
Posts: 774

Bikes: 2019 Trek Stash 7, 1994 Specialized Epic 1986 Diamondback Ascent 1996 Klein Pulse Comp, 2006 Specialized Sequoia Elite

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
Liked 68 Times in 47 Posts
I had a hard time understanding how these observations indicate time causes gravity. It seems to me the more complicated and "theoretical" things are, the more our "theories" predict observations without truly explaining why we observe it.

For example; I would be curious to know if there is a sound explaination why the protons in a nucleus don't fly apart from each other? They're all positively charged so shouldn't the nucleus fly apart as the protons repell each other? Apparently there's a strong nuclear and weak nuclear force that holds the nucleus together? How and why? Perhaps it has something to do with gluons, muons, and quarks, but what got all those protons smushed into that nucleus in this first place? Forgive me if I'm in error, but doesn't theoretical physics describe what is occurring in the nucleus without truly explaining why?

Last edited by mtnbud; 02-25-21 at 04:35 PM.
mtnbud is offline  
Old 02-25-21, 05:17 PM
  #15  
StupidlyBrave 
Chepooka
 
StupidlyBrave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: South Central PA
Posts: 1,174

Bikes: 1990 Trek 1400 7spd; 2001 Litespeed Arenberg 10 speed

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 626 Post(s)
Liked 448 Times in 282 Posts
StupidlyBrave is offline  
Old 02-26-21, 12:40 AM
  #16  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 22,130
Mentioned: 78 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15248 Post(s)
Liked 6,474 Times in 3,659 Posts
Originally Posted by mtnbud View Post
I had a hard time understanding how these observations indicate time causes gravity. It seems to me the more complicated and "theoretical" things are, the more our "theories" predict observations without truly explaining why we observe it.

For example; I would be curious to know if there is a sound explaination why the protons in a nucleus don't fly apart from each other? They're all positively charged so shouldn't the nucleus fly apart as the protons repell each other? Apparently there's a strong nuclear and weak nuclear force that holds the nucleus together? How and why? Perhaps it has something to do with gluons, muons, and quarks, but what got all those protons smushed into that nucleus in this first place? Forgive me if I'm in error, but doesn't theoretical physics describe what is occurring in the nucleus without truly explaining why?
Turtles, all the way down.
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Likes For Seattle Forrest:
Old 02-26-21, 01:22 AM
  #17  
late
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
late's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Southern Maine
Posts: 8,695
Mentioned: 120 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10490 Post(s)
Liked 624 Times in 476 Posts
Originally Posted by mtnbud View Post

I had a hard time understanding how these observations indicate time causes gravity. It seems to me the more complicated and "theoretical" things are, the more our "theories" predict observations without truly explaining why we observe it.

For example; I would be curious to know if there is a sound explanation why the protons in a nucleus don't fly apart from each other? They're all positively charged so shouldn't the nucleus fly apart as the protons repel each other? Apparently there's a strong nuclear and weak nuclear force that holds the nucleus together? How and why? Perhaps it has something to do with gluons, muons, and quarks, but what got all those protons smushed into that nucleus in this first place? Forgive me if I'm in error, but doesn't theoretical physics describe what is occurring in the nucleus without truly explaining why?
That isn't unusual.

We figure out what something is, but don't know why. You hope we'll figure it out later, but as long as it works..
late is offline  
Old 02-26-21, 01:35 AM
  #18  
canklecat
Me duelen las nalgas
 
canklecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 13,013

Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel

Mentioned: 191 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4268 Post(s)
Liked 2,232 Times in 1,441 Posts
For me -- a flop at math above basic algebra and geometry, with an elementary grasp of physics -- the problem is disassociating "time" as it pertains to physics from our mundane concept of linear time, measured by clocks and calendars, that cannot be repeated, slowed or sped up.

In fact, the issue that finally got the coin to drop for me wasn't physics or any form of science or math, but history and current events and political activism in my work in journalism decades ago. I finally realized that for any disenfranchised, alienated or marginalized demographic in any nation or society, time isn't experienced in a linear way.

Most advanced societies tend to think in terms of progress toward improvement, betterment, which implies a forward, linear motion. But for people of any demographic outside of that demographic that is enjoying progress, time seems to drag or stand still. So when we measure time in terms of progress -- as we might associate wealth with comfort, health and safety -- then for some people time is not linear. It seems to drag, often to go backward or even loop around. They see progress, as pedestrians walking on a sidewalk would observe others on a moving conveyor sidewalk, or stairs vs escalators. But they don't experience that progress.

For me, the challenge continues to be disassociating that objectivist, materialist concept of time, to drop the "time is money" type of thinking, and try to consider time as something more malleable that is experienced differently in different situations.

Anyway, I watched the video and didn't really get it. But I'll try again.
canklecat is offline  
Old 02-26-21, 09:50 AM
  #19  
late
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
late's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Southern Maine
Posts: 8,695
Mentioned: 120 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10490 Post(s)
Liked 624 Times in 476 Posts
Originally Posted by canklecat View Post

Anyway, I watched the video and didn't really get it. But I'll try again.
Watch a couple videos explaining relativity.
late is offline  
Old 02-26-21, 09:51 AM
  #20  
noisebeam
Arizona Dessert
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AZ
Posts: 14,990

Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex

Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5084 Post(s)
Liked 1,796 Times in 1,071 Posts
progress is a value judgement that doesn't apply here.
noisebeam is online now  
Old 02-26-21, 06:59 PM
  #21  
RubeRad
Keepin it Wheel
 
RubeRad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 9,497

Bikes: Surly CrossCheck, Krampus

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked 1,395 Times in 1,031 Posts
Originally Posted by ahsposo View Post
My issue is accepting the premise that "clocks" run slower near large mass. His GPS error example just doesn't ring true.
My watch runs slower when it's near YO MOMMA
RubeRad is offline  
Old 02-27-21, 01:50 AM
  #22  
Ptcycles
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Sylvania, OH
Posts: 66

Bikes: 73 Schwinn Continental, (my first), 1993 Nobelette, Cannondale 500,Team Fugi, Raleigh Supercourse, Raleigh Gran Sport, 1976 Krystal, Tsunami, Giant Boulder SE, Series 30 Paramount, Scott Unitrack, As long as I have room the Hoard will grow...

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 16 Times in 11 Posts
Don't need to watch the video. Everyone knows that gravity causes time.
Ptcycles is offline  
Old 02-27-21, 07:58 AM
  #23  
hazetguy 
PutABitOfPaperOnThem
 
hazetguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 761

Bikes: I might have a few. Just sayin'

Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1336 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,238 Times in 679 Posts


hazetguy is offline  
Old 02-27-21, 01:28 PM
  #24  
Stadjer
Senior Member
 
Stadjer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Groningen
Posts: 1,244

Bikes: Gazelle rod brakes, Batavus compact, Peugeot hybrid

Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4112 Post(s)
Liked 473 Times in 363 Posts
Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
For me -- a flop at math above basic algebra and geometry, with an elementary grasp of physics -- the problem is disassociating "time" as it pertains to physics from our mundane concept of linear time, measured by clocks and calendars, that cannot be repeated, slowed or sped up.
Having a similar background I always like mundane concepts of physics. I never thought gravity was very mysterious, if molecules and atoms don't fall apart at any disturbance the force that pulls them together must be significantly bigger than the other forces, and if you have zillions to the power of zillions together like in a planet, all these 'extra' pulling forces accumulated make gravity. Now I've understood that this reasoning is wrong, but in the Middle Ages it would have been sound.

In fact, the issue that finally got the coin to drop for me wasn't physics or any form of science or math, but history and current events and political activism in my work in journalism decades ago. I finally realized that for any disenfranchised, alienated or marginalized demographic in any nation or society, time isn't experienced in a linear way.

Most advanced societies tend to think in terms of progress toward improvement, betterment, which implies a forward, linear motion. But for people of any demographic outside of that demographic that is enjoying progress, time seems to drag or stand still. So when we measure time in terms of progress -- as we might associate wealth with comfort, health and safety -- then for some people time is not linear. It seems to drag, often to go backward or even loop around. They see progress, as pedestrians walking on a sidewalk would observe others on a moving conveyor sidewalk, or stairs vs escalators. But they don't experience that progress.
I don't know about that but I watched a documentary last week with Roman Krznaric and he claimed that the clock and especially the minute and second hands has changed our idea of time and our relationship of time, causing us to not take care of the planet. And because of that we've lost the cathedral building mentality, the sense of beeing part of something much greater than our time and conribute to things that will go on for ages. Of course the way cultures who haven't known clocks for that long relate differently to time.

For me, the challenge continues to be disassociating that objectivist, materialist concept of time, to drop the "time is money" type of thinking, and try to consider time as something more malleable that is experienced differently in different situations.
I liked that idea when I was dependent on a student allowance for a while, and you always knew you'd have money again at the 20th of the month. As a business concept it makes sense, but regarding life it's extremely stupid. Because of life that is, time is the only thing everyone has a shortage of, so nothing can be more valuable (and still I spend it posting on an internet forum).
Stadjer is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.