Go Back  Bike Forums > The Lounge > Foo
Reload this Page >

About electric vehicles

Notices
Foo Light hearted off-topic chit chat with no general subject.

About electric vehicles

Old 05-14-21, 08:00 AM
  #1  
Juan Foote
LBKA (formerly punkncat)
Thread Starter
 
Juan Foote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Jawja
Posts: 3,825

Bikes: Spec Roubaix SL4, GT Traffic 1.0

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1358 Post(s)
Liked 317 Times in 220 Posts
About electric vehicles

There is a pending policy in which ICE are to be phased out within a fairly short time frame, all things considered. I was curious about an aspect of travel in regard to these vehicles.

As of now the maximum range on these vehicles is 'roughly' 300 miles. Tesla claims some slightly better numbers on a couple of their models, but of course once you factor in load, hills, wind, etc. we could expect that to be lessened.
In an ICE when you run out of gas you just pull through a station, fill up, and you are on your way in 10 minutes including a roller wheel hot dog....
Tesla claims that the fastest charging you can to is a couple of hours IF you have a 440V connection. Full charge on 110 is in the area of 4-5 DAYS.

So, if you own one of these and decide you want to travel. How does that work?
We recently saw a Tesla "dual motor" model going down the road with Florida plates. Are we to assume that the people driving that car HAD to take this trip in up to possibly 4-5 days if they were in South Florida? How do the logistics of travel with a vehicle range of 300 miles actually work?
Are we to further assume that when the ICE regulations come full bore, and we all have to get an electric vehicle, that we will no longer be able to hop in our car and travel the open road in a carefree and uniquely American way?
Juan Foote is offline  
Old 05-14-21, 08:19 AM
  #2  
xroadcharlie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Windsor Ontario, Canada
Posts: 385

Bikes: 2018 Giant Sedona

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 121 Post(s)
Liked 70 Times in 63 Posts
One option is to buy an electric car/suv with NO BATTERY. Provide an option for an easily replaceable standardized battery that could be leased for a small fee, Drive the 200 - 300 miles to a service center, Replace the depleted battery with a fully charged one after a hearty meal, Pay the fee for the difference in power from the depleted battery, Be on your way. Or buy the battery outright for local drives.

A side benefit is that since the batteries are professionally maintained and serviced, Battery wear would have no impact on resale value and every time the battery is changed, A quick system check would insure continued reliability of the drivetrain.

Last edited by xroadcharlie; 05-14-21 at 08:30 AM.
xroadcharlie is offline  
Likes For xroadcharlie:
Old 05-14-21, 08:37 AM
  #3  
work4bike
Senior Member
 
work4bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlantic Beach Florida
Posts: 1,464
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2192 Post(s)
Liked 335 Times in 253 Posts
This is an interesting thread and I look forward to see what experienced EV owners have to say.

However, I will say that ICE vehicles will not be outlawed anytime soon, because it's just impossible, the voters will retaliate, simply because EV are just too expensive, among other issues. This is all just political theater in some states.
work4bike is offline  
Old 05-14-21, 09:10 AM
  #4  
Juan Foote
LBKA (formerly punkncat)
Thread Starter
 
Juan Foote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Jawja
Posts: 3,825

Bikes: Spec Roubaix SL4, GT Traffic 1.0

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1358 Post(s)
Liked 317 Times in 220 Posts
Originally Posted by xroadcharlie View Post
One option is to buy an electric car/suv with NO BATTERY. Provide an option for an easily replaceable standardized battery that could be leased for a small fee, Drive the 200 - 300 miles to a service center, Replace the depleted battery with a fully charged one after a hearty meal, Pay the fee for the difference in power from the depleted battery, Be on your way. Or buy the battery outright for local drives.

A side benefit is that since the batteries are professionally maintained and serviced, Battery wear would have no impact on resale value and every time the battery is changed, A quick system check would insure continued reliability of the drivetrain.
This is actually an interesting idea, if we were of the assumption that the battery that runs these vehicles were small enough to be easily portable. Interesting take on how things could happen.

While doing a little research on these, the Tesla vehicles are tied into a network of charging stations. There is a display inside the vehicle that will show the (registered) charging areas available nearby. My understanding is that it will do a "quick" charge that is good for ~40 miles within an hour or less. This would be cool for local running around, but worthless for travel.
Juan Foote is offline  
Old 05-14-21, 09:12 AM
  #5  
Juan Foote
LBKA (formerly punkncat)
Thread Starter
 
Juan Foote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Jawja
Posts: 3,825

Bikes: Spec Roubaix SL4, GT Traffic 1.0

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1358 Post(s)
Liked 317 Times in 220 Posts
Originally Posted by work4bike View Post
This is an interesting thread and I look forward to see what experienced EV owners have to say.

I am also interested in knowing from a wider group of owners.

One of the people I attend a cycling event with owns an EV. He went on a trip up to Tenn. a couple years ago and took a gas generator with him. He was not happy with the arrangement, he is a VERY "green" lifestyle person (he skates everywhere he goes in town) but also realized that he would be stuck somewhere if he didn't.
Juan Foote is offline  
Old 05-14-21, 10:21 AM
  #6  
Stadjer
Senior Member
 
Stadjer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Groningen
Posts: 1,245

Bikes: Gazelle rod brakes, Batavus compact, Peugeot hybrid

Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4113 Post(s)
Liked 474 Times in 364 Posts
Originally Posted by xroadcharlie View Post
One option is to buy an electric car/suv with NO BATTERY. Provide an option for an easily replaceable standardized battery that could be leased for a small fee, Drive the 200 - 300 miles to a service center, Replace the depleted battery with a fully charged one after a hearty meal, Pay the fee for the difference in power from the depleted battery, Be on your way. Or buy the battery outright for local drives.

A side benefit is that since the batteries are professionally maintained and serviced, Battery wear would have no impact on resale value and every time the battery is changed, A quick system check would insure continued reliability of the drivetrain.
This is actually a good idea, but one from about 15 years ago. But that requires standardization of batteries and floor and that would only be feasable if it was truly about the environment. But it's not, it's about keep selling new stuff to customers, bad for the environment in itself, and manufacturers competing through marginal gains in speed, range and handling. Environmental gains have to be achieved within the margins of good old industrial capitalism and marketing The idea that people should keep fhe freedom the car gave them is of lesser importance too. So people will just have to take the plane for longer distances, and air travel is kept out of the Paris agreement so those huge emmissions don't matter for global warming.

Plug-in hybrids could probably match the environmental burder of fully electrics on a daily use basis if the batteries allow for the commuting distance. Or even do better depending on the source of the electricity and the weight saving on batteries. But somehow it's developping towards full EV's only and are the interesting hybrid technologies limited to the super- and hypercars.
Stadjer is offline  
Old 05-14-21, 11:25 AM
  #7  
mtnbud
Senior Member
 
mtnbud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Salem Oregon
Posts: 775

Bikes: 2019 Trek Stash 7, 1994 Specialized Epic 1986 Diamondback Ascent 1996 Klein Pulse Comp, 2006 Specialized Sequoia Elite

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 153 Post(s)
Liked 68 Times in 47 Posts
There are some new electric cars coming out that are set up to charge at up to 800 volts. You could charge from 20 to 80 percent in about 15 minutes using an fast charging station set up for this rate, IF you could find an 800 volt fast charger...

Topping off a battery is painfully slow, so the idea is to charge to 80 percent. Only charge to 100 percent at home.
mtnbud is offline  
Likes For mtnbud:
Old 05-14-21, 11:40 AM
  #8  
3alarmer
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Posts: 19,895

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 283 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21843 Post(s)
Liked 4,721 Times in 3,455 Posts
.
...I bought a Nissan LEAF, brand new, in 2011. It's original range per charge was about 120 miles. I think the newer ones hava a slightly larger battery pack, thus slightly longer range initially. The batteries are subject to the same slow degradation with regard to cahrge and range as any other Lithium ion tech battery. So righ now, in 2021 , the range per charge is about 50-60 miles (depending on ambient temperatures and your use of energy pig accessories, like heating and A/C.)

Despite all this, this car is suitable for 95% of my car needs. Which was why we bought it in the first place.

I don't travel that much any more, but back when I traveled by car a lot (all over the USA), I made it a point to stop, get out, and take a walkaround the neighborhood I found myself in every couple of hundred miles. AS a long time stoner traveler, I do admit I would sometimes take the time to roll and smoke one on the longer breaks. This was a choice, obviously. I know there are people who feel like it's worth it to pee in an empty soda bottle on the road, just to keep rolling. I feel sorry for those guys, because my own feeling is that they miss a lot, and don't get a sense of what this country really is. Which is pretty great.

I have driven a lot of miles, on Western roads especially, including places like Hwy 50 going out into Nevada and beyond, where there's not much infrastructure. I wouild feel about the same driving there as I did in my old '86 Toyota truck. Anyplace you drive, you will eventually come upon a situation requiring some support from civilization.

I guess if you really want a solution that makes electric cars the same as IC engine ones in terms of operational capability, it's quite a bit further down the road. In the meantime, I think Amtrak still has those car train thingies, and quite honestly, all of my vacations taken in the past 20 years or so were done with airlines and rental cars.

An electric car that takes care of 95% of what I need to do has been a good deal for me. I might eventually replace the batteries in this one, or I might just go new, depending on how it pencils out. But there's no question this 2011 LEAF was an excellent car for us, both in terms of reliability and in cost per mile to drive it. Also a fun little car to drive, if you are into that.
3alarmer is online now  
Likes For 3alarmer:
Old 05-14-21, 11:43 AM
  #9  
3alarmer
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Posts: 19,895

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 283 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21843 Post(s)
Liked 4,721 Times in 3,455 Posts
Originally Posted by mtnbud View Post
There are some new electric cars coming out that are set up to charge at up to 800 volts. You could charge from 20 to 80 percent in about 15 minutes using an fast charging station set up for this rate, IF you could find an 800 volt fast charger...

Topping off a battery is painfully slow, so the idea is to charge to 80 percent. Only charge to 100 percent at home.

...super fast charging eats batteries. So far, I have not seen anyone come up with a good answer to that, but it might involve cooling while charging.
3alarmer is online now  
Old 05-14-21, 11:49 AM
  #10  
3alarmer
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Posts: 19,895

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 283 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21843 Post(s)
Liked 4,721 Times in 3,455 Posts
Originally Posted by Juan Foote View Post
Tesla claims that the fastest charging you can to is a couple of hours IF you have a 440V connection. Full charge on 110 is in the area of 4-5 DAYS.
...Tesla offers options on the size of the battery pack you buy with the car. My LEAF used to charge to full at 110 overnight (about 8 hours). In it's current lower range battery status, that's down to something like 4 hours at 110. If I were really interested in doing a lot of highway miles, like a travelling salesman or something, I would not drive an electric car to do that. Also, the range really does drop dramatically when the ambient temperatures drop below freezing.

It's not necessarily a universal solution at this point, but they work well for the vast majority of drivers, who are taking trips of about ten miles or less most of the time.
3alarmer is online now  
Old 05-14-21, 12:27 PM
  #11  
skijor
on by
 
skijor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 952

Bikes: Waterford RS-33, Salsa Vaya, Bacchetta Giro 20 ATT

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 863 Post(s)
Liked 522 Times in 326 Posts
Originally Posted by xroadcharlie View Post
One option is to buy an electric car/suv with NO BATTERY. Provide an option for an easily replaceable standardized battery that could be leased for a small fee, Drive the 200 - 300 miles to a service center, Replace the depleted battery with a fully charged one after a hearty meal, Pay the fee for the difference in power from the depleted battery, Be on your way. Or buy the battery outright for local drives.

A side benefit is that since the batteries are professionally maintained and serviced, Battery wear would have no impact on resale value and every time the battery is changed, A quick system check would insure continued reliability of the drivetrain.
This.
Folks think nothing of having to swap batteries in their cordless drill, sawzall, circular saw, etc. Cordless tools have no standards that I'm aware. Everything is flippin proprietary, which sucks. Standardization of vehicle batts would be a rational proactive measure. Just like there are standard sizes (C, D, AA, etc), there's no reason that something similar couldn't be done for vehicles too.
skijor is online now  
Old 05-14-21, 12:45 PM
  #12  
3alarmer
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Posts: 19,895

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 283 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21843 Post(s)
Liked 4,721 Times in 3,455 Posts
Originally Posted by skijor View Post
This.
Folks think nothing of having to swap batteries in their cordless drill, sawzall, circular saw, etc. Cordless tools have no standards that I'm aware. Everything is flippin proprietary, which sucks. Standardization of vehicle batts would be a rational proactive measure. Just like there are standard sizes (C, D, AA, etc), there's no reason that something similar couldn't be done for vehicles too.
...I have actually taken a repair class on the LEAF. As a part of that class, we removed and reinstalled the battery pack, taking the time to break open the case to look inside. I am personally in favor of this solution (swappable batteries that meet certain universal standards), but I have some doubts it will come to pass. The manufacturers have a vested interest in keeping their standards different (a la Campagnolo/Shimano). And I don't see the government as willing to step in to save us.

Right now, as things stand now from a design standpoint, fire in the batteries is one of the biggest risks when someone crashes one of these cars. The battery containment is pretty robust, but they're still limited by weight as a factor. And the batteries are heavy as crap, so the whole changing out thing will probably not be user friendly, if for no other reason than liability. I would look to see this as a solution in electric semi trucks before it makes its way into cars. Assuming it ever does.
3alarmer is online now  
Likes For 3alarmer:
Old 05-14-21, 12:47 PM
  #13  
mtnbud
Senior Member
 
mtnbud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Salem Oregon
Posts: 775

Bikes: 2019 Trek Stash 7, 1994 Specialized Epic 1986 Diamondback Ascent 1996 Klein Pulse Comp, 2006 Specialized Sequoia Elite

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 153 Post(s)
Liked 68 Times in 47 Posts
I guess China has a car that's set up for the battery swap system:
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...tteries-lease/
mtnbud is offline  
Likes For mtnbud:
Old 05-14-21, 12:51 PM
  #14  
clemsongirl 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: california
Posts: 161
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 449 Post(s)
Liked 1,865 Times in 594 Posts
A horse and buggy/wagon was a lot easier to use than the first gas cars too. The 10 to 15 year transition from horse to fossil-burners was also a logical and sustainable choice at the time, especially in cities....much like the transition to EV's are now

With battery technology advances and fast charging station infrastructure becoming even better and more abundant it shouldn’t be a problem to travel anywhere in the future when we have a larger number of EV’s. For just normal city driving, even today, it makes more sense to me to not have the expense of gas, maintenance and especially the climate and air quality problems. Today with level 3 charging you can get an 80 percent charge in 20-30 minutes in a Tesla 3. That’s around 250-300 miles of driving depending on weather and how you drive. Thankfully I also live in a state that has a good and getting even better charging infrastructure, state along with federal rebates and even state subsidized installation of personal chargers in my condo building which gives us even cheaper night time charging costs.

I also find the disinformation provided by climate change deniers (fossil fuel money) that is easy for some to latch onto in being critical of EV’s as just being uneducated.
__________________
"The negative feelings we all have can be addictive…just as the positive…it’s up to
us to decide which ones we want to choose and feed”… Pema Chodron

Last edited by clemsongirl; 05-14-21 at 05:04 PM.
clemsongirl is offline  
Likes For clemsongirl:
Old 05-14-21, 01:08 PM
  #15  
RubeRad
Keepin it Wheel
 
RubeRad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 9,498

Bikes: Surly CrossCheck, Krampus

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked 1,411 Times in 1,040 Posts
Originally Posted by Juan Foote View Post
While doing a little research on these, the Tesla vehicles are tied into a network of charging stations. There is a display inside the vehicle that will show the (registered) charging areas available nearby. My understanding is that it will do a "quick" charge that is good for ~40 miles within an hour or less. This would be cool for local running around, but worthless for travel.
Hmm, I was under the impression that Tesla 'supercharging stations' did a complete charge in about an hour (time for you to get lunch). Probably I'm wrong.

But just for the fun of it, this comic/infographic about Tesla model S by The Oatmeal is a fun read.
RubeRad is online now  
Old 05-14-21, 01:08 PM
  #16  
RubeRad
Keepin it Wheel
 
RubeRad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 9,498

Bikes: Surly CrossCheck, Krampus

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked 1,411 Times in 1,040 Posts
Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
...I have actually taken a repair class on the LEAF. As a part of that class, we removed and reinstalled the battery pack, taking the time to break open the case to look inside..
It's just hundreds of 18650s wired together, right?
RubeRad is online now  
Old 05-14-21, 01:44 PM
  #17  
clemsongirl 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: california
Posts: 161
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 449 Post(s)
Liked 1,865 Times in 594 Posts
Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
...super fast charging eats batteries. So far, I have not seen anyone come up with a good answer to that, but it might involve cooling while charging.
That's more about charging from 0. New battery technology gives thermal management in advanced cell internal-resistance-based fast-charging that shows no physical battery damage while both cooling batteries during charging and preheating them in cold weather.

eta...btw the Leaf's use of recycled materials in its design and also it being 99% recyclable is also a good environmental aspect to it.
__________________
"The negative feelings we all have can be addictive…just as the positive…it’s up to
us to decide which ones we want to choose and feed”… Pema Chodron

Last edited by clemsongirl; 05-14-21 at 04:56 PM.
clemsongirl is offline  
Old 05-14-21, 04:15 PM
  #18  
Hondo Gravel
es ist mir egal
 
Hondo Gravel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Hondo,Texas
Posts: 2,063

Bikes: Too many Motobecanes

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2198 Post(s)
Liked 2,309 Times in 1,490 Posts
Hondo Gravel is offline  
Old 05-14-21, 04:27 PM
  #19  
3alarmer
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Posts: 19,895

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 283 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21843 Post(s)
Liked 4,721 Times in 3,455 Posts
Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
It's just hundreds of 18650s wired together, right?
...pretty close. it's piles and piles of these little flat cell thingies, gang wired (in sequence mostly...to accomplish the higher voltages required).


Newer GM Bolt Cell

There is a company in Japan now that is reconditioning LEAF batteries, by taking them apart and replacing the degraded cells, but nothing in the US yet. A brand new battery pack from Nissan is 6 grand plus installation, so while this one still works, I figure I'll just drive it. Nothing seems to ever go wrong with it, and I never have to change the oil.
3alarmer is online now  
Likes For 3alarmer:
Old 05-14-21, 05:04 PM
  #20  
njkayaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,501
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2870 Post(s)
Liked 538 Times in 376 Posts
Originally Posted by xroadcharlie View Post
One option is to buy an electric car/suv with NO BATTERY. Provide an option for an easily replaceable standardized battery that could be leased for a small fee, Drive the 200 - 300 miles to a service center, Replace the depleted battery with a fully charged one after a hearty meal, Pay the fee for the difference in power from the depleted battery, Be on your way. Or buy the battery outright for local drives.

A side benefit is that since the batteries are professionally maintained and serviced, Battery wear would have no impact on resale value and every time the battery is changed, A quick system check would insure continued reliability of the drivetrain.
This idea has been floated before but never took off.

The batteries for 200-300 miles are big and heavy.

It would be hard make having a reasonably useful car (with respect to cargo and passengers) and have the battery be easily replaceable.
njkayaker is online now  
Old 05-14-21, 05:28 PM
  #21  
skijor
on by
 
skijor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 952

Bikes: Waterford RS-33, Salsa Vaya, Bacchetta Giro 20 ATT

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 863 Post(s)
Liked 522 Times in 326 Posts
Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
...I have actually taken a repair class on the LEAF. As a part of that class, we removed and reinstalled the battery pack, taking the time to break open the case to look inside. I am personally in favor of this solution (swappable batteries that meet certain universal standards), but I have some doubts it will come to pass. The manufacturers have a vested interest in keeping their standards different (a la Campagnolo/Shimano). And I don't see the government as willing to step in to save us.

Right now, as things stand now from a design standpoint, fire in the batteries is one of the biggest risks when someone crashes one of these cars. The battery containment is pretty robust, but they're still limited by weight as a factor. And the batteries are heavy as crap, so the whole changing out thing will probably not be user friendly, if for no other reason than liability. I would look to see this as a solution in electric semi trucks before it makes its way into cars. Assuming it ever does.
Re: batt swapping
There used to be this thing called Full Service.
I envision the driver going into a bay, guided by lights telling when to stop much like an auto car wash. A skilled attendant proceeds with the changeover.
There will those who make excuses, and those folks who see opportunity.
skijor is online now  
Old 05-14-21, 06:35 PM
  #22  
3alarmer
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Posts: 19,895

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 283 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21843 Post(s)
Liked 4,721 Times in 3,455 Posts
Originally Posted by skijor View Post
Re: batt swapping
There used to be this thing called Full Service.
I envision the driver going into a bay, guided by lights telling when to stop much like an auto car wash. A skilled attendant proceeds with the changeover.
There will those who make excuses, and those folks who see opportunity.
...sure, it's an intriguing possibility. But without a set standard, it will be difficult to accomplish. The companies that make these have thus far seen no reason to make their car parts interchangeable. Right now, there's a very big opportunity based business here that involves stealing catalytic converters and selling them for scrap. Not sure how I feel about my $6,000 battery pack as subject to rapid removal by any team of guys with the right equipment to break into my car, and have it designed as readily sellable and usable in the midnight auto supply marketplace. But like I said, my particular needs run toward the car as it is now designed...I can't envision driving it to LA on an overnight trip.

I don't even like LA.
3alarmer is online now  
Old 05-14-21, 07:10 PM
  #23  
billridesbikes
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 517
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 232 Post(s)
Liked 293 Times in 178 Posts
Your ICE car isn't going anywhere soon

Originally Posted by Juan Foote View Post
There is a pending policy in which ICE are to be phased out within a fairly short time frame.
Yeah, that's just not going to happen with EVs in their current form. The amount of specialty minerals needed for EVs is far greater than ICE vehicles.
The amount that Li mining would need to increase is at least 100 fold, and mining for other minerals like cobalt need to double or triple.
  1. Most of the known deposits of these minerals exist in politically unstable countries.
  2. The time from discovery to production for opening a new mine averages about 16 years.
Meaning by 2035 EVs likely will not constitute even a majority of cars and trucks on the road, because the ability to produce the batteries needed will be constrained at current growth rates of mineral extraction by around mid-decade.
Opening new mines in poor countries will likely cause environmental disasters and human suffering that is worse than just pumping oil out of the ground. This is already evident from getting to the 1~2% EVs we have now worldwide.
There other things one could do such has have EVs with much smaller batteries (50-75miles of range say) and electrify the highway system or something like that. But all the cars and trucks will not be EVs until mid-century, if ever.

You can read the IEA report on minerals needed for 'clean' energy, but says, in bureaucratese, about the same thing.
https://www.iea.org/reports/the-role...gy-transitions
billridesbikes is offline  
Old 05-14-21, 08:33 PM
  #24  
Kat12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 200
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 134 Post(s)
Liked 104 Times in 74 Posts
I'm just wondering how people who live in apartments are going to charge their electric cars, since they don't have a garage with an outlet they can plug it into... unless/until apartment buildings are outfitted with chargers, either in residents' assigned parking spaces or with some sort of "login" (hello huge rise in rent to pay for this), I'm not sure how it's going to be practical for people who don't own houses to use electric cars.
Kat12 is offline  
Likes For Kat12:
Old 05-14-21, 08:46 PM
  #25  
3alarmer
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Posts: 19,895

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 283 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21843 Post(s)
Liked 4,721 Times in 3,455 Posts
Originally Posted by Kat12 View Post
I'm just wondering how people who live in apartments are going to charge their electric cars, since they don't have a garage with an outlet they can plug it into... unless/until apartment buildings are outfitted with chargers, either in residents' assigned parking spaces or with some sort of "login" (hello huge rise in rent to pay for this), I'm not sure how it's going to be practical for people who don't own houses to use electric cars.
...installing chargers in bulk in a situation like that should not require "a huge raise in rent".
The wiring is a relatively simple improvement, and every apartment complex parking lot I've ever seen had pretty good electric lighting, for security.

It's a little more complex to meter them to the individual apartments, but again, not a huge capital expense.
Probably end up metering them individually, then assigning them to accounts, because I doubt everyone who lives in the complex will own oooand drive an electric car.
3alarmer is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.