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France’s Most Wanted (Wo)Man

Old 06-30-21, 11:23 AM
  #101  
dmanthree
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Originally Posted by blacknbluebikes View Post
1.500 euros? Are you kidding me? She ended the race for someone, caused injuries, and this? What a joke. Maybe the impacted rider can sue her dumb ass.
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Old 06-30-21, 11:28 AM
  #102  
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My understanding is the €1500 fine is a court, not civil fine, something similar to a reckless endangerment charge. Any civil charges are separate and up to private entities.
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Old 06-30-21, 11:41 AM
  #103  
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It will be interesting if additional charges are added.

For example, in a motor vehicle crash, there would be charges of leaving the scene of an accident.

We'll see if civil charges are also brought. Race crashes are not uncommon, but this was pretty extraordinary negligence.
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Old 06-30-21, 11:55 AM
  #104  
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The sad thing... her sign might well have been completely missed if not for the crash.

The clip I linked earlier:

The announcers were struggling to explain the crash. Their initial view of the crash the woman was barely visible. It took several different vantage points before her involvement became clear.

The other thing is that the videos are perhaps only showing 1 second or so in front of the riders, so there is absolutely no time to get your sign out and back in.

And, she could have held her banner above her head completely off the road if she wished.
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Old 07-01-21, 05:09 AM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
The announcers were struggling to explain the crash. Their initial view of the crash the woman was barely visible. It took several different vantage points before her involvement became clear.
That's our Phil!
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Old 07-01-21, 09:19 AM
  #106  
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A little calmer story by the NYT

Apparently the woman turned herself in.

"race officials had withdrawn their legal complaint against the woman".

I don't believe the name has been released yet (other than the mug shot being everywhere).
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Old 07-01-21, 09:22 AM
  #107  
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The Woke which Spoked.
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Old 07-01-21, 03:44 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by prairiepedaler View Post
The Woke which Spoked.
I'm guessing that you don't care if anybody else knows what this means.
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Old 07-01-21, 05:11 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
A little calmer story by the NYT
I don't believe the name has been released yet (other than the mug shot being everywhere).
Mug shot? Where? I just want to see her without that stupid smile on her face.
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Old 07-01-21, 08:26 PM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
I'm guessing that you don't care if anybody else knows what this means.
At least one did. Thanks.

I was originally going with the "Wicked Woke of the West" but that would've been a stretch.
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Old 07-01-21, 08:39 PM
  #111  
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I think a competent defense attorney would point to the endless instances of fans on the road, fans flying over the peleton on MTBs, pushing riders, spitting on riders, running drunk along the road, allowing pets on the road, and indeed causing crashes. Also pointing out cases of caravan cars and motorcycles strikers riders. All to illustrate, quite effectively, the lack of fan control, inherent danger of the sport, and the precedents of fans on the road. Shrinking her unusual behavior to looking the wrong way at the wrong time.

An aggressive attorney would use all that history as rationale for suing the tour organizers, for not sufficiently controlling fans, and allowing (even celebrating) dangerous fan behavior as part of the tour.
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Old 07-01-21, 09:05 PM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by downtube42 View Post
I think a competent defense attorney would point to the endless instances of fans on the road...
This may not be about what happens to the woman. There are frequent pro cycling crashes... another major crash later the same day... the cause was mentioned earlier, but seems to have fallen to obscurity in Google searches.

She may just get a slap on the wrist, but it may be more to inform all the other fans to pay attention. If you are going to do something stupid on the roadway, at least look at the riders as if you were standing on the side of a freeway.
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Old 07-02-21, 09:23 AM
  #113  
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https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/fea...acing-charges/

I hadn't seen earlier that Soler broke BOTH arms. Ouch
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Old 07-02-21, 10:30 AM
  #114  
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The publicity of the charge is the point. Millions of people got the message. Mission accomplished. Nothing to win from this person. On with the Tour.

Last edited by blacknbluebikes; 07-02-21 at 10:31 AM. Reason: tpyo
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Old 07-02-21, 11:13 AM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by downtube42 View Post
I think a competent defense attorney would point to the endless instances of fans on the road, fans flying over the peleton on MTBs, pushing riders, spitting on riders, running drunk along the road, allowing pets on the road, and indeed causing crashes. Also pointing out cases of caravan cars and motorcycles strikers riders. All to illustrate, quite effectively, the lack of fan control, inherent danger of the sport, and the precedents of fans on the road. Shrinking her unusual behavior to looking the wrong way at the wrong time.

An aggressive attorney would use all that history as rationale for suing the tour organizers, for not sufficiently controlling fans, and allowing (even celebrating) dangerous fan behavior as part of the tour.
It's not the first crowd caused crash but I think what made so many people particularly angry is that she caused the crash not as a spectator, but as someone who used the event and the presence of camera to get her message across. It wouldn't have happened if she was a spectator, because then she would have watched the cyclists. So a defence based on the responbility of the organization to deal with spectators should fail because she didn't behave like one. It's extremely hard to organize safety for people who aren't watching the action.

Originally Posted by vane171 View Post
I don't see much difference between a bike race or auto rally where for the latter it is a responsibility of each township to mark off the areas with those yellow tapes where spectators should not be standing and are required to police the area to insure compliance. Though it took a number of dead spectators before such rules were put in place (but that is different country from country).
In the good old days of Group B rallying, look it up on YT if you don't know it, there were actually surprisingly few accidents, because people weren't busy with being on camera but with the action. In rallying it's about protecting the crowd anyway, not the participants.
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Old 07-02-21, 11:21 AM
  #116  
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I had a funny thought this morning that I wonder how her Opi and Omi feel about this whole thing.
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Old 07-02-21, 02:42 PM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by Chinghis View Post
I had a funny thought this morning that I wonder how her Opi and Omi feel about this whole thing.
When MdvP won and took the yellow jersey, I read or heard somewhere the wisecrack "now that's how you properly honor your grandparents."
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Old 07-02-21, 06:19 PM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
(For reference, observe the silence around the Jan 6 participants. Several hundred have been identified.)
Yep, it there is a will, also a motivated public participation...

In this particular setting, all spectators should have been standing behind that small ditch. I would think that spectator supervision should be (or maybe is) a responsibility for the local race organizing township through which the races passes (if they don't manage it properly, they could be sued). Same as they are responsible for local road closures and markings and all that comes with the racing passing through your town.

You don't get people like this around roads outside towns (where it can be regulated by local forces), except in those big hills but there the peloton is naturally spread out and going much slower.

I don't see much difference between a bike race or auto rally where for the latter it is a responsibility of each township to mark off the areas with those yellow tapes where spectators should not be standing and are required to police the area to insure compliance. Though it took a number of dead spectators before such rules were put in place (but that is different from country to country).
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Old 07-02-21, 09:31 PM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by ericy View Post
Mug shot? Where? I just want to see her without that stupid smile on her face.
Yeah, where's a pic of her? Never mind the smile, I just want to see what "stupid" looks like...
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Old 07-05-21, 01:06 PM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by vane171 View Post
Stadium sports like soccer, hockey, football, need to be fenced in from aggressive fans where in past it was played without any barriers whatever.
Idiot fans and barriers are nothing new. In the 1968 Olympics the soccer stadium had a moat around the field to protect the players, and especially referees, from the fans. From an LA Times article:
"To discourage soccer hooligans, the field is surrounded by an eight-foot-wide, four-foot-deep moat. On the field side of the moat, there is a seven-foot-high chain-link fence. Inside the moat, strands of barbed wire are angled toward the seats." I believe that I recall reading that there were escape tunnels for the referees.
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Old 07-05-21, 03:32 PM
  #121  
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IMHO, there have been a lot of views voiced, and yes, there are many examples of fans who have created issues. The consequences of this incident affected many riders, not just a couple. Some had to drop out, some have injuries that have slowed them, or have may taken them out for the season, and the final result has been changed. We can "what if" "well, they did, so" and "what about" all day, but that gets old. The organizers decided this was just too much, an example was to be made and held up to other spectators, that there can/will be consequences. I'm not surprised they decided not to press charges, and possibly for some cynical reasons, but the idea that she turned herself in and was very remorseful carried weight, too. It served as a way to move on without the humungous mess for all parties a court case would create.

Previously, I have only been able to watch condensed, 2 hr versions of stages, or extended highlights. This is the first year I've been able watch the Tour live on the world feed, the one with Simon Gerrans and Anthony McCrossan. I get up at 3.45 a.m. pour my coffee, and turn the TV to wait for the feed to come alive at 3.50. I thought I had a decent grasp of the Tour, but this has been an eye-opener. You don't get the subtleties, the history, strategies team/rider backgrounds, or the connection between the fans and riders in condensed-for-TV reports. Surprises? That watching all 5-6 hours is not ever boring, it goes by amazingly quickly. Knowing the Tour is a fixture of France, but finding out how it is part of the national identity, and the amount of pride and participation of the countryside along the route.

And as relates to this thread- as the motorcycle and helicopter cameras follow every bit of the route, to see that 95% of the spectators are enthusiastic, respectful, and proud, and how much love they show. I teared a bit seeing the love and encouragement they gave Primoz Roglic as he struggled up the mountain on his last day, and the smile he summoned up for them when it was obvious that he was in extreme pain and exhausted. I've seen that the riders actually enjoy having spectators there and will put up with a few asshats. Yep, there are some serious jerks, but they are in a minority. Yet every condensed broadcast seemed to find and show them. And I see how the Tour could never could be fenced in, its openness is a big part of its identity.

I'm even getting a glimmer of how the scoring works, lol.

Last edited by decosse; 07-05-21 at 03:37 PM. Reason: clarity
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Old 07-05-21, 04:25 PM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by decosse View Post
And I see how the Tour could never could be fenced in, its openness is a big part of its identity.
Some of the automobile road/offroad races are largely fenced, or have specified viewpoints because they present too much danger to the fans otherwise.

And, I believe that France reviews every inch of the course before the race.

But, it would take a Herculain effort to fence a 2,200 mile course that changes every year, two sides, end to end. Nonetheless, they still do put up urban barriers.

They could lay a chalk line, but it would be a lot of chalk, and wouldn't necessarily prevent fans from crossing the line or holding signs in front of the riders.

I think there have been crashes in the past due to photographers crossing urban barriers, and not getting out of the way quickly enough.

The best thing to do is try to educate the fans what is and is not acceptable, and part of that may be to hold fans accountable when they violate the rules, prudence, or injure cyclists.
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Old 07-05-21, 07:24 PM
  #123  
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Let's not be so American and try to bubble wrap the darn thing.

Reasonable precautions and reasonable risk. Barriers for the whole tour are not reasonable.

I remember doing "Suicide Kloof" in South Africa in the early 90s. Hike and swim / jump down a cascading river through a canyon. The whole time I was thinking in the US we would have liabilitied our way out of such fun. And that was before we upped the degree of legally permissive difficulty an order of magnitude or two.
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Old 07-07-21, 09:24 AM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
Some of the automobile road/offroad races are largely fenced, or have specified viewpoints because they present too much danger to the fans otherwise.

And, I believe that France reviews every inch of the course before the race.

But, it would take a Herculain effort to fence a 2,200 mile course that changes every year, two sides, end to end. Nonetheless, they still do put up urban barriers.

They could lay a chalk line, but it would be a lot of chalk, and wouldn't necessarily prevent fans from crossing the line or holding signs in front of the riders.

I think there have been crashes in the past due to photographers crossing urban barriers, and not getting out of the way quickly enough.

The best thing to do is try to educate the fans what is and is not acceptable, and part of that may be to hold fans accountable when they violate the rules, prudence, or injure cyclists.
I don't know if it's a saying but If you treat people like morons they start to behave like morons. At least you have to take the effect on the mindset into consideration.

Originally Posted by slcbob View Post
Let's not be so American and try to bubble wrap the darn thing.

Reasonable precautions and reasonable risk. Barriers for the whole tour are not reasonable.

I remember doing "Suicide Kloof" in South Africa in the early 90s. Hike and swim / jump down a cascading river through a canyon. The whole time I was thinking in the US we would have liabilitied our way out of such fun. And that was before we upped the degree of legally permissive difficulty an order of magnitude or two.
I agree, but we also have to admit that from the 40's to the 80's when most sports grew big people had an attitude towards risk and danger that also wasn't reasonable in any way. On top of that especially things like crowd behaviour evolve. There's a balance to be found from the acceptance that accidents will happen. .
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Old 07-07-21, 11:37 AM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by downtube42 View Post
I think a competent defense attorney would point to the endless instances of fans on the road, fans flying over the peleton on MTBs, pushing riders, spitting on riders, running drunk along the road, allowing pets on the road, and indeed causing crashes. Also pointing out cases of caravan cars and motorcycles strikers riders. All to illustrate, quite effectively, the lack of fan control, inherent danger of the sport, and the precedents of fans on the road. Shrinking her unusual behavior to looking the wrong way at the wrong time.

An aggressive attorney would use all that history as rationale for suing the tour organizers, for not sufficiently controlling fans, and allowing (even celebrating) dangerous fan behavior as part of the tour.
Would work very well in an American court where everything is always someone else's fault. Not sure how the French would react, my hope is with a nasal LOL.
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