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Old 07-21-21, 06:11 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by J.Higgins View Post
I probably could have written that a little clearer. I said cheapest + safest, and perhaps I could have written it like: cheapest/safest. Of the cheapest countries to live, Vietnam is also - out of that bunch - the safest. Google "cheapest countries to live" or something like that. The Philippines is also supposed to be safe/cheap for expats.
Try googling the safest countries to live and neither will make the list.
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Old 07-21-21, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
Iím staying in S Texas. The breakfast tacos are too good to move away from.
... if you live in south Texas you are already an Expat ... viva la raza Y hookey the cuernos de vaca
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Old 07-22-21, 01:15 AM
  #28  
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I know a few Americans who've moved to other countries. Most recently, one fellow living in Vietnam, another couple moved from San Francisco to Portugal. They all seem happy with those choices. But there are always adjustments to make and expectations to be changed in order to adapt.

The pandemic has revealed a few flaws. Vietnam depended on isolation and border control. That worked for almost a year. But their COVID rate is increasing and they still have few people vaccinated and no real program to offer mass vaccinations. It'll be interesting to see later this year or early 2022 how they fare if the Delta variant turns out to be as bad as expected.

And there's a food shortage on the island where he lives. Every day is a minor struggle to get whatever is available. Before the fairly recent lockdown most of his social media posts included some really good looking meals delivered to his home. No more, for now. However Vietnam seems to be reasonably well coordinated so the shortage may be temporary.

On the plus side, before the recent lockdown, I was impressed with the speed, affordability and quality of medical care he received. It was way ahead of my experiences with the VA and Medicare providers over the past year in the US. Most of his out of pocket expenses for medical and dental were well under $100, sometimes as little as $5 or less for medical and dental treatments.

One thing he's emphasized is packing light and being flexible enough to move if necessary. Some of the negative experiences he's described for other expats were related to their expectations of traveling with lots of possessions and staying put long term. One fellow from the US opened a business of some kind, but apparently overlooked some bureaucratic stuff and might need to return to the US. He asked about how to sell the business to avoid taking a loss. He was advised to simply sign it over cheaply to a native and walk away.

Occasionally I'm tempted to live in another country for awhile. But the US is so huge and diverse I could get a very different life experience just moving to another city, state or region. Also, I'd miss the world's biggest clown show if I left the US.
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Old 07-22-21, 06:28 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Wileyone View Post
Try googling the safest countries to live and neither will make the list.
ohferchrissakes, dude. Really?

https://www.goabroad.com/articles/jo...-live-and-work

As I've said a couple times now, its not the safest, nor is it the cheapest, but out of the CHEAPEST countries, it is also the safest.

1. Make a list of the most-backward-assed countries in the world, with the cost of living being the way they are ranked. The #1 item on that list would be the lowest cost of living.

2. Now use THAT LIST OF COUNTRIES, and go down through it, ranking the safest countries. Vietnam. Boom.
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Old 07-22-21, 06:31 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
But the US is so huge and diverse I could get a very different life experience just moving to another city, state or region. Also, I'd miss the world's biggest clown show if I left the US.
This statement is exceptionally accurate, Cank. Well done.
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Old 07-22-21, 11:19 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by SkinGriz View Post
What brought you to Florida? Why do you hate it?
How much of your life is all about cycling?
Is there anything to be gained by being contrarian? Example is maybe if some other nation is all about cycling, maybe you’d find the cycling scene/roads too crowded?

Maybe put your bike on an airplane to Slovenia and try it out for a couple months?

Florida. No income tax. Excellent homestead protection. Many different cultures in different parts of the state. No mountains. I’ve never been, that’s my outsider perspective of FL.

Maybe go to a part of the state with a different culture from you?
Here's the story...our family moved here back in the 70's when I was starting 1st grade. We spent a prior Christmas vacation here and my parents decided it was paradise (compared to Louisville, KY). It was paradise back then too. It was cheap to live here, housing was inexpensive, the pace of life was slow and uncrowded. Since then there has been wave after wave of housing booms each one bringing more development and people. I've seen 2 lane roads go to 4, 6 then 8 and 10. Orange groves replaced by housing communities and big box strip malls. Beaches filled in with condos. They are projecting FL will continue to go 1/2 million people every year. That's too much density and not enough resources. The weather is hotter and last longer into fall and spring. Tropical storms becoming more prevalent. Blah. The things I love about FL are disappearing more each year.

I would try to find a place that is friendly to cycling.

Anyways, your suggestions are sound about trying out a place first. As stated I'm still in fantasy mode. Not sure if I could talk my wife into it.

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Old 07-22-21, 09:38 PM
  #32  
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I've done overseas. Coming back wasn't my choice, but when you have family obligations, then you do. I wouldn't retire overseas-- social-help programs won't follow you-- but I wish I could do it as long as I could.

Originally Posted by maddmaxx View Post
True. To be free and beholding to no one for what you take with you when you move from place to place is great. A bit selfish, but great anyway.
I suppose, but really more selfish than people who don't move away for the reason that it's not what they want to do? I mean, staying for a reason is one thing-- caring for aging parents, etc.-- but to stay simply because they don't want to leave? Both are "living where you want to live," so why is it only selfish when "where you want to live" is somewhere else?
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Old 07-23-21, 12:09 AM
  #33  
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I've moved from Indiana to Texas to Portland, OR. It seems like three different countries. Texas was a culture shock, Portland less so but still different. The US certainly offers a variety of options for culture, climate, and geography.

I'd like to live outside the US for a while - my wife has dual US/UK citizenship. There are always reasons not to; the only way to do it is to just do it.
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Old 07-23-21, 06:30 AM
  #34  
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Joining the US Military is probably the cheapest and easiest way to see the world, because if you are serious about your career, you'll get assignments all over the globe. While I was stationed in different countries, I would use my free time to visit other countries. After a while you get to feel like a rootless tree (nod to Damien Rice), and you just want to go home. After a while you are done roaming. The whole time I was on active duty I yearned for family and friends. When I retired, I settled down and life has been good. sure I get p*ssed-off at some of the stupid stuff this country (government) does, but its not enough reason to leave. There are some truly remarkable places in this world, and surely that many of them are better places than the places we currently live, but I figure I've got to be part of something - to be proud of something, so I'm making it work here, and I'm proud of it.
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Old 07-23-21, 08:15 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Kat12 View Post
I've done overseas. Coming back wasn't my choice, but when you have family obligations, then you do. I wouldn't retire overseas-- social-help programs won't follow you-- but I wish I could do it as long as I could.


I suppose, but really more selfish than people who don't move away for the reason that it's not what they want to do? I mean, staying for a reason is one thing-- caring for aging parents, etc.-- but to stay simply because they don't want to leave? Both are "living where you want to live," so why is it only selfish when "where you want to live" is somewhere else?
That response was only intended for the patriotic stuff above.
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Old 07-23-21, 09:32 AM
  #36  
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There are a lot of good places to go. One of the best I've found in my research (for my preferred lifestyle) is Panama. Mostly english speaking, a US protectorate, housing is dirt cheap, and it's got decent healthcare and infrastructure.

I could see doing any of the Belize, Bahamas or other places like that, as I love to SCUBA, and having easy access to that is going to be a big part of my retirement. Thailand or Vietnam are not off the list, but if I were to try to emigrate to that part of the world, I'd probably try to get back to Okinawa (I lived there 3 years).

Moving out of the country for retirement is definitely a thing I will consider. By the time I retire, I will have no family left in the US anyway. I could probably go live in the Philippines with my wife's family and be very welcomed.
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Old 07-23-21, 10:27 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by maddmaxx View Post
True. To be free and beholding to no one for what you take with you when you move from place to place is great. A bit selfish, but great anyway.
Why is it selfish?
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Old 07-23-21, 04:12 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Wileyone View Post
Why is it selfish?
Because many take everything the learned or got here and abandon this country in favor of someplace cheaper. The quote had more to do with the question about patriotism. My impression was that some feel they owe this country nothing.
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Old 07-23-21, 05:03 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by maddmaxx View Post
Because many take everything the learned or got here and abandon this country in favor of someplace cheaper. The quote had more to do with the question about patriotism. My impression was that some feel they owe this country nothing.
I think originally it was cheaper and safer.
The op didn't mention anything about patriotism.

Living where you want to live doesn't mean you still can't salute the flag.
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Old 07-23-21, 07:40 PM
  #40  
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Expatting is one way to take a big step down in energy consumption and generally have a more sustainable life.
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Old 07-23-21, 07:54 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by J.Higgins View Post
Joining the US Military is probably the cheapest and easiest way to see the world, because if you are serious about your career, you'll get assignments all over the globe. While I was stationed in different countries, I would use my free time to visit other countries. After a while you get to feel like a rootless tree (nod to Damien Rice), and you just want to go home. After a while you are done roaming. The whole time I was on active duty I yearned for family and friends. When I retired, I settled down and life has been good. sure I get p*ssed-off at some of the stupid stuff this country (government) does, but its not enough reason to leave. There are some truly remarkable places in this world, and surely that many of them are better places than the places we currently live, but I figure I've got to be part of something - to be proud of something, so I'm making it work here, and I'm proud of it.
I was NOT serious about my career. I still went all over.
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Old 07-23-21, 10:11 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by maddmaxx View Post
That response was only intended for the patriotic stuff above.
But some people would say it, period. "Go away" = "selfish" Even if a person isn't actually leaving responsibilities.
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Old 07-23-21, 10:18 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by bikecrate View Post
Here's the story...our family moved here back in the 70's when I was starting 1st grade. We spent a prior Christmas vacation here and my parents decided it was paradise (compared to Louisville, KY). It was paradise back then too. It was cheap to live here, housing was inexpensive, the pace of life was slow and uncrowded. Since then there has been wave after wave of housing booms each one bringing more development and people. I've seen 2 lane roads go to 4, 6 then 8 and 10. Orange groves replaced by housing communities and big box strip malls. Beaches filled in with condos. They are projecting FL will continue to go 1/2 million people every year. That's too much density and not enough resources. The weather is hotter and last longer into fall and spring. Tropical storms becoming more prevalent. Blah. The things I love about FL are disappearing more each year.

I would try to find a place that is friendly to cycling.

Anyways, your suggestions are sound about trying out a place first. As stated I'm still in fantasy mode. Not sure if I could talk my wife into it.
So you want a place that is affordable, has a relatively low population density, good weather, and you want to ride a bike there. Thatís what it sounds like. And you want your wife onboard.

Maybe research countries that line up with those priorities? And maybe see if itís a culture that is warm (enough) to outsiders?

Maybe if your wife knows itís just for a month or 2 sheíll come?
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Old 07-24-21, 07:46 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Wileyone View Post
Why is it selfish?
Originally Posted by maddmaxx View Post
Because many take everything the learned or got here and abandon this country in favor of someplace cheaper. The quote had more to do with the question about patriotism. My impression was that some feel they owe this country nothing.
I don't think its selfish. I think selfish is an inappropriate term for expatriates. There's a big difference between selfishness and self-interest, or self-preservation. If I were to lets say, move to Canada, it would be for the hunting and fishing (and the poutine), and I wouldn't feel selfish at all. As far as leaving this country for someplace cheaper to live, well... why not? This Earth belongs to all of us, surely, so why cant we roam it how we please?

As far as your brain-drain comment, maddmaxx , I also do not see a problem with it. Let's look at a young man from Kenya, who has worked hard and studied hard, and somehow managed to get himself a medical degree in Boston. If you were him, would you want to go back to Kenya and live in squalor, or enjoy the good life here? Brain-drain IS a serious problem with third world nations, but in the end its only human nature. People naturally go where life is better. If you are in the checkout line at the grocery store, and a different line opens up, is it selfish to shift over the that line? These countries stay impoverished and under-developed because all of the smart people moved out instead of staying to improve what they got. Still, if you pull yourself back away from it, and look at the macro, its really not a selfish thing to do. People do what they can, and go where they go and its all in an effort improve the quality of their lives. If some joker wants to live on a small island in the Pacific for the rest of his life, he should be allowed to do that without reprisal. No, I say its not selfish at all, just people looking for a better life.
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Old 07-24-21, 08:05 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by bikecrate View Post
I would try to find a place that is friendly to cycling.

Anyways, your suggestions are sound about trying out a place first. As stated I'm still in fantasy mode. Not sure if I could talk my wife into it.
From today's BBC news: Tips from the Netherlands on how to build a nation of cyclists
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Old 07-24-21, 08:33 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by maddmaxx View Post
Because many take everything the learned or got here and abandon this country in favor of someplace cheaper. The quote had more to do with the question about patriotism. My impression was that some feel they owe this country nothing.
Nobody owes any nation anything, except whatever taxes are forced on you.
Just as money goes where it is treated best, so people should go where theyíre treated best.

Itís odd to have a codependent relationship with a gigantic entity that doesnít know you exist except for tax purposes.
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Old 07-24-21, 08:33 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by J.Higgins View Post
I don't think its selfish. I think selfish is an inappropriate term for expatriates. There's a big difference between selfishness and self-interest, or self-preservation. If I were to lets say, move to Canada, it would be for the hunting and fishing (and the poutine), and I wouldn't feel selfish at all. As far as leaving this country for someplace cheaper to live, well... why not? This Earth belongs to all of us, surely, so why cant we roam it how we please?

As far as your brain-drain comment, maddmaxx , I also do not see a problem with it. Let's look at a young man from Kenya, who has worked hard and studied hard, and somehow managed to get himself a medical degree in Boston. If you were him, would you want to go back to Kenya and live in squalor, or enjoy the good life here? Brain-drain IS a serious problem with third world nations, but in the end its only human nature. People naturally go where life is better. If you are in the checkout line at the grocery store, and a different line opens up, is it selfish to shift over the that line? These countries stay impoverished and under-developed because all of the smart people moved out instead of staying to improve what they got. Still, if you pull yourself back away from it, and look at the macro, its really not a selfish thing to do. People do what they can, and go where they go and its all in an effort improve the quality of their lives. If some joker wants to live on a small island in the Pacific for the rest of his life, he should be allowed to do that without reprisal. No, I say its not selfish at all, just people looking for a better life.
BTW we do not fish or hunt for our poutine. It is served to us at our local watering hole.
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Old 07-24-21, 10:00 AM
  #48  
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All this talk about countries and patriotism is timely since the Olympic opening ceremonies just happened. I'm just as patriotic as the next guy, served 23-years in the US military and would do it again.

However, I'm also a globalist and I like the idea of the world stop identifying so strongly to any race, religion, ethnicity, nationality. That's part of the reason I watch the Olympics every time.

They played the John Lennon song (sung by four other artists) Imagine. Maybe I'm just a soppy SOB, but I thought it was very appropriate.

I'm not pro Marxism, Communism, Socialism....I'm just anti-tribalism.

P.S. Don't worry moderators. No politics just my thoughts....I won't debate it here.


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Old 07-24-21, 11:03 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by SkinGriz View Post
Nobody owes any nation anything, except whatever taxes are forced on you.
Just as money goes where it is treated best, so people should go where theyíre treated best.

Itís odd to have a codependent relationship with a gigantic entity that doesnít know you exist except for tax purposes.
I'm sure everyone is self made too.
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Old 07-24-21, 12:12 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by work4bike View Post
All this talk about countries and patriotism is timely since the Olympic opening ceremonies just happened. I'm just as patriotic as the next guy, served 23-years in the US military and would do it again.

However, I'm also a globalist and I like the idea of the world stop identifying so strongly to any race, religion, ethnicity, nationality. That's part of the reason I watch the Olympics every time.
The Olympics is about identifying strongly with nationality (as in citizenship). It's not just it's foundation but also how it's sold, which has a lot of 'every country is a winner' about it. I can watch the Olympics here on British, German, Belgian and Dutch television, and usually they're all showing a different sport because there's a sport to be good at for every country. Only the 100m and other important athletics finals are truly an international viewers event, an international is fundamentally different from globalist anyway.

I don't like the world to stop identifying with citizenship at all. People who feel they're in the same boat together tend to make that boat a nice place to be. For example they organize nice sports infrastructures in whichs talents can blossom until they can show what they can do at the Olympics. Leave out the concept of nation states and you have nothing left to globalize, not Olympics but also no taxing, no labour laws, no social security, education, public transport, health care, science, basically evethying good is made possible by the nation state, even being an expat.
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