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Microsoft Windows does it again

Old 07-18-21, 03:28 PM
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TejanoTrackie 
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Microsoft Windows does it again

Just when we thought that Microsoft would no longer obsolete older computers with a new operating system, they've done it again with Windows 11. Yes, Windows 11 will be a free upgrade, but it won't support CPUs that lack TPM, which means you're out of luck if your PC is more than 4 years old. Also, Windows 11 is available only in a 64 bit version, so you can say adios to setting up an NTVDM under a 32 bit version to run 16 bit DOS executables in a Command Prompt environment. Yes, you can continue to use Windows 10, but extended support ends 4 years from now, after which time a lot of annually updated apps like TurboTax will no longer support and run on these older machines. From the time I bought my first big boy PC with a hard drive in 1989, I've never managed to get more than 8 years of service out of them due to operating system changes that made them obsolete, even though the hardware was perfectly functional. Granted, prices have declined a lot; my most recent computer which I bought 2 years ago cost me about one-tenth what the first one cost when the price is adjusted for inflation. Still, its a hassle setting up a new computer, and involves re-purchasing a lot of software. Fortunately, my current computer is just barely compatible with Windows 11 requirements, since it has the earliest generation CPU with TPM, which means I kind of lucked out and should get over 12 years total service life assuming Microsoft continues its current policy of supporting each version of Windows for 10 years. This assumes, of course, that my computer doesn't suffer some sort of hardware failure that requires replacing it with a new computer. My fingers are crossed.
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Originally Posted by Dcv View Post
I'd like to think i have as much money as brains.
I see the light at the end of the tunnel, but the tunnel keeps getting longer - me

Last edited by TejanoTrackie; 07-18-21 at 05:35 PM. Reason: corrected TMP to TPM
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Old 07-18-21, 03:37 PM
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I think planned obsolescence is immoral.

But I donít know much about computers and havenít learned Linux yet so Iím at the mercy of MacRosoft.
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Old 07-18-21, 03:42 PM
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Also,
Reading your thread and looking at patterns/working backwards...

My last laptop was a little over 300.

Maybe the biz model shifted from the hardware to the software like printer manufacturers making their money on ink.

It makes sense. Our better computer (solid state MacBook) has almost no reason for the hardware to ever go bad without moving parts.
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Old 07-18-21, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by SkinGriz View Post
Our better computer (solid state MacBook) has almost no reason for the hardware to ever go bad without moving parts.
Unfortunately, solid state components can and do burn out. This also applies to solid state drives. If you get more than 10 years use out of your MacBook, then you've beat the odds. BTW, Apple is just as bad at obsoleting their devices, particularly their iPhones. My iPad mini lasted 4 years before it could no longer update to the newest version of iOS, and my current iPhone SE is about to suffer the same fate.
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Originally Posted by Dcv View Post
I'd like to think i have as much money as brains.
I see the light at the end of the tunnel, but the tunnel keeps getting longer - me
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Old 07-18-21, 04:11 PM
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It's about time to try something else then, and say adios to Windows on my internet PC.

I've acquired a 32 bit PC for all my old bootleg video software. I'll run Windows on that offline. I'm still lingering in Video CD MPG land.

It goes with my downtube friction shifters and freewheels.
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Old 07-18-21, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Zinger View Post
It's about time to try something else then, and say adios to Windows on my internet PC.

I've acquired a 32 bit PC for all my old bootleg video software. I'll run Windows on that offline. I'm still lingering in Video CD MPG land.

It goes with my downtube friction shifters and freewheels.
Well, you still have 4 years to mull it over. But IDK about them DT shifters and FWs, you must be really really old.
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Originally Posted by Dcv View Post
I'd like to think i have as much money as brains.
I see the light at the end of the tunnel, but the tunnel keeps getting longer - me
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Old 07-18-21, 04:32 PM
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Although I use Win10 on my main PC (7th Generation CPU) because of the need to run specific software, I much prefer the performance (and demeanor) of my Linux PCs. I reckon I'll run Win10 as long as I can. Is there any compelling need to move to Win11?

I still have a box running Windows 98 just so I can continue to use a photo slide scanner that works beautifully, but the manufacturer (Olympus) discontinued support so drivers for later versions of windows are not available.
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Old 07-18-21, 05:15 PM
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You lost me at TMP & NTVDM

WTF?
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Old 07-18-21, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Moe Zhoost View Post
Is there any compelling need to move to Win11?
Only if you run software like TurboTax that will no longer run under Windows 10 when Microsoft ends support for it. That is the main reason I've been forced to buy new computers as Microsoft's new operating systems have obsoleted the older ones. I too have older computers running older operating systems including DOS to allow me to run older software that won't run under Windows 10.

Edit - Also, if you have a 7th generation Intel CPU, it is not supported by Windows 11 anyway. The minimum requirement is 8th generation.
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What, Me Worry? - Alfred E. Neuman

Originally Posted by Dcv View Post
I'd like to think i have as much money as brains.
I see the light at the end of the tunnel, but the tunnel keeps getting longer - me

Last edited by TejanoTrackie; 07-18-21 at 06:04 PM.
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Old 07-18-21, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Nessism View Post
You lost me at TMP & NTVDM

WTF?
TPM = Trusted Platform Module technology, which is part of the CPU to prevent attacks on your system by malware.

NTVDM = Windows NT Virtual Dos Machine, which is a virtual emulation of DOS inside a Windows environment to permit execution of 16-bit DOS programs.
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What, Me Worry? - Alfred E. Neuman

Originally Posted by Dcv View Post
I'd like to think i have as much money as brains.
I see the light at the end of the tunnel, but the tunnel keeps getting longer - me

Last edited by TejanoTrackie; 07-18-21 at 05:37 PM.
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Old 07-18-21, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by TejanoTrackie View Post
Unfortunately, solid state components can and do burn out. This also applies to solid state drives. If you get more than 10 years use out of your MacBook, then you've beat the odds. BTW, Apple is just as bad at obsoleting their devices, particularly their iPhones. My iPad mini lasted 4 years before it could no longer update to the newest version of iOS, and my current iPhone SE is about to suffer the same fate.

Did not know that about solid state.
Agree that Apple is guilty.
Maybe the solution is a raspberry pi and open source anything possible?

Just thinking working from end goal backwards.

End goal for me being some combination of cost/capability/freedom.
If learning a new way takes big chunk of time then that is also a type of freedom given up.
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Old 07-18-21, 07:31 PM
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I still can’t figure out this Windows 95.
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Old 07-18-21, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Moe Zhoost View Post
I still have a box running Windows 98 just so I can continue to use a photo slide scanner that works beautifully, but the manufacturer (Olympus) discontinued support so drivers for later versions of windows are not available.
Have you looked at VueScan software? It worked for me when my canon scanner refused to play with Windows 10.
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Old 07-18-21, 10:29 PM
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It's expensive to support old computer technology. That expense gets passed on to everybody, 99% of people don't desire to run DOS software. Wouldn't it be cheaper to run a DOS box?
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Old 07-18-21, 10:38 PM
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I've spend my career in embedded software development for industrial equipment. Try marrying silicon, with obsolescence cycles in terms of a few years, with equipment having development cycles that can take that long, production spans approaching a decade, and expected lifespans for 2 - 3 decades after production ceases. It's a frickin' nightmare. OTOH, it keeps engineers employed.

Although I'm a user of Microsoft products and am affected by product obsolescence, I completely understand and don't begrudge them their business decisions.
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Old 07-19-21, 02:37 AM
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If IT security blogs are credible, Microsoft doesn't want to publicly admit the OS is as porous as a screen door. Every time they think they've got it sorted out, hackers find new vulnerabilities. The only option is a whole nuther approach to an OS.

My 2012 desktop was running Windows 7 and the hard drive finally died a few weeks ago. When I replace the HD I'm keeping that PC offline other than for very rare exceptions. Mostly I used it for photo editing in Lightroom, an older standalone version, not the cloud version. So that PC doesn't really need to be online anymore.

And even some WD storage drives have been compromised, so I'm not even sure my old NAS is trustworthy anymore. I disconnected it last year after updating my Lightroom catalog and never got around to using it again. So far it hasn't shown up on any lists of compromised NAS drives, but I'm not taking chances. I'll probably migrate my photos and LR catalog to a newer drive, and retire that older NAS drive to a media server. I don't care of that gets compromised since the music and videos are replaceable.

I thought about updating my laptop to Win 11, but frankly it was already a marginal performer with Win 10 and would be unbearably sluggish. If an SSD doesn't improve performance much, or it doesn't meet the standards for Win 11, I'll probably switch the laptop to some version of Whatever-nix.

Every time I think I can afford to discard my 20 year old CD and DVD backups, I realize I should probably just refresh them on new DVDs or other offline storage media.
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Old 07-19-21, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by david101 View Post
Have you looked at VueScan software? It worked for me when my canon scanner refused to play with Windows 10.
Thanks for this suggestion. I've tried a few of the available third party drivers over the years, but none were reasonably functional. VueScan doesn't list my scanner (or anything from Olympus) in their documentation so it looks like another dead end. Being stuck with Win98 is not really an issue now since I have a dedicated PC for it. It just takes up more space.

Thanks again, mate.
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Old 07-19-21, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
I still canít figure out this Windows 95.
Time to go to '96.
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Old 07-19-21, 12:17 PM
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Watch out for Windows 11, WIndows is like Star Trek movies, every other one is crap. Remember Windows 8? Vista?

As for TurboTax, ditch it and switch to free Excel spreadsheets downloadable from excel1040.com. Send that dude a few e-clams via PayPal if you feel inspired.

I've used those for probably 10 years now. It's amazing the labyrinthine interconnectedness of the spreadsheet, and the precision of the formatting. Once everything is filled out you can just print, sign, and mail.

I even manage to get it done in LibreOffice on Linux (that part is a little janky though, actual Microsoft-brand Excel is smoother)
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Old 07-19-21, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
Watch out for Windows 11, WIndows is like Star Trek movies, every other one is crap. Remember Windows 8? Vista?

As for TurboTax, ditch it and switch to free Excel spreadsheets downloadable from excel1040.com. Send that dude a few e-clams via PayPal if you feel inspired.

I've used those for probably 10 years now. It's amazing the labyrinthine interconnectedness of the spreadsheet, and the precision of the formatting. Once everything is filled out you can just print, sign, and mail.

I even manage to get it done in LibreOffice on Linux (that part is a little janky though, actual Microsoft-brand Excel is smoother)
I tend to agree with the "every other version is bad..."
Win 9 was so horrible they didn't bother to release it. Win 10, it's OK. 7 was pretty darn good... 8... OMG. So 11. Nah, wait for 12. Sure, that's it.
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Old 07-19-21, 03:59 PM
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You can run Windows 3.1 on an iPad.

https://www.techradar.com/amp/news/y...ipad-heres-how
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Old 07-19-21, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
You can run Windows 3.1 on an iPad.

https://www.techradar.com/amp/news/y...ipad-heres-how


What can you do in 1993 on your iPad?

A lot, it turns out. From the built-in game of Minesweeper to the titles of its time, you can treat this as your retro gaming PC, and try out the following:
  • Duke Nukem
  • SimEarth
  • Civilisation
  • DOOM
  • SimCity 2000
  • The Simpsons Cartoon Studio
You had me at Duke Nukem!
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Old 07-23-21, 10:07 AM
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*Laughs in Linux*
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Old 07-23-21, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by TejanoTrackie View Post
Only if you run software like TurboTax that will no longer run under Windows 10 when Microsoft ends support for it. That is the main reason I've been forced to buy new computers as Microsoft's new operating systems have obsoleted the older ones. I too have older computers running older operating systems including DOS to allow me to run older software that won't run under Windows 10.

Edit - Also, if you have a 7th generation Intel CPU, it is not supported by Windows 11 anyway. The minimum requirement is 8th generation.
I have 11th gen I5 on my laptop where I do all my financial stuff so I'm OK there. If Quicken requires W11 I'll have to update.
I've got several programs that I have to pay annual subscriptions for so there's no chance I can run on an unsupported computer.
I've got several programs, including the subscription ones, that only allow installation on one machine, so that limits my options too, that pisses me off more.
If I'm paying annually and auto updating to the cloud, I should be able to do more than just see my data from another machine.
I suspect subscriptions for all the good programs will be the new norm.

Last edited by DiabloScott; 07-23-21 at 12:55 PM.
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Old 07-23-21, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by CrimsonEclipse View Post
*Laughs in Linux*
Actually it's "Laughs ON Linux". You can just say LOL for short. Everybody will understand
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