vascoboy

hello all, I own several nice lugged steel bikes (serotta, gios, Ironman). Love 'em all,...& I'd like a CF bike for the stable. I'm 50+, ride about 100-125 miles a week. With so many offerings, not sure where to start. I don't mind buying a used bike, & would like to spend up to $1,500. I would prefer one that has more classic lines, simple graphics (not a fan of the mountain dew look...) The folks at the LBS have suggested that w/ the bikes I have, i'd have to really spend $$$ to really benefit from CF bike.
I know this is a loaded question, and don't wish to start steel vs CF debate. Thanks for your recommendations.
Christian

10 Wheels

Friend cracked Three of them.

Maelochs

Nashbar.com.

deapee

Why would you have to spend a lot? For $1500, you can get a nice 17-19 pound name-brand CF bike with 105 groupset. You'll probably have FSA Cranks and a bit heavier wheels -- that's where the $1500 price comes in. Put the extra (when you get it) into a wheelset if that's your fancy. No one will convince me that Ultegra shifts 'better' than 105 -- it just weighs less, and to be completely honest, I'm mostly convinced that the 105 being heavier, that it will last longer anyway.

catgita

Ignoring the material question for a moment; what is it you want to achieve with this bike?

Two things have put me off buying carbon. First is that few fit me. Second is that if I equip one for the type of riding I mainly do, then 90% of the bike would be the same as what I already have. That leaves little room for improvement, so surely would be disappointing.

But maybe one for short fast rides, or a mountain goat? Don't have that, so if deciding to do that, then might as well pick the best kit for that job, which might well be carbon. Very achievable.

Mobile 155

If you are serious and if you are not as clumsy as 10 Wheel's friend you have a few choices. Classic lines and simple graphics are doable even if $1500.00 puts you at a slight disadvantage unless you are looking at used.
This is not classic style, most new bikes aren't but it is CF and it is close to your price range. Ridley Fenix CR2 105 Road Bike - 2015 Performance Exclusive
Fuji Altamira 1.1 LE Road Bike - 2016 Performance Exclusive


You might need to be a bit more careful with a used bike but Look has and had some pretty classic looking CF bikes.
These are just examples and I am sore Orbea, Specialized and Trek might have ones that fit the bill as well. CF tends to be most noticeable in climbs and sprints and taking the buzz out of the road surface. I have Steel, Aluminum and CF and I like them all, but when the mountain road calls it is the CF bike for these old legs. No debate because I ride them all.

vascoboy

for the days I just want to climb for a workout...(live in SF) I don't race, so not sure if it would make the most sense

vascoboy

thanks Mobile!

rekmeyata

Mobile 155 has a good suggestion with that Fuji, it comes with Ultegra transmission, better wheels, and for less money than the Ridley, although the Ridley would probably hold its resale value better if that's an issue.

Or I know where you can get a Titanium bike with 105 for the price of the Ridley if you want a lifetime frame material that won't rust, corrode, splinter, or smell bad in hot weather.

FlatSix911

Take a look online at BD ... no tax and free shipping

NEW Fuji Altamira Di2 LE $1799.95
Save Up To 60% Off Carbon Road Bikes - New Fuji Altamira Di2 LE, Full Carbon Road Bikes with Electronic Shimano Di2 Dura Ace 20 Speeds/ Ultegra Cranks + Fast Wheelsets

Maelochs

I support Rekmeyata's suggestion of titanium if you want something different. That said, i just started negotiation to buy a Chinese carbon frame with the intention of using the finished bike about the way you plan to---on days when I feel like going rapidly rather than long, and whenever lugging extra weight uphill might make things harder than they already are.

If I ever get another bike after this, it will definitely be titanium though ... a better ride than steel, even, from what i hear, no corrosion, and more crash-worthy than CF (though I have recently learned that aging flesh is not particularly crash-worthy so the bike frame material might not be an issue ... )

rekmeyata

Electronic ****ting has it's problems, battery issues, software upgrade issues, computer malfunctions, servo motors quitting, it's not worth the hassle...IN MY OPINION.

Mobile 155

I don't have a Ti bike. At one time I had steel, Aluminum, Scandium and CF. But never found a Ti bike I liked. Then at the end of 2015 or early 2016 a friend of mine got a GT Ti bike at a Jensen's parking lot sale. It was a bit over the $1500 mark of the Op but it looked like a bike that had solved the flex problem suffered by some Ti machines. It looked good for a bike with one color. But I did like the triple triangle.

GT Edge Ti Ultegra Jenson Bike > Bikes > Road Bikes | Jenson USA

Jim from Boston

Quote:

Originally Posted by vascoboy

hello all, I own several nice luggedsteel bikes (serotta, gios, Ironman). Love 'em all,...& I'd like a CF bikefor the stable. I'm 50+, ride about 100-125 miles a week...The folks at the LBS have suggested that w/ the bikes I have, i'd have to really spend $$$ to really benefit from CF bike.

I’m a decades-long cyclist, currently a year-round commuter and road cyclist, and pondered the utility of a CF bike for years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston

…For years, I rode a steel Bridgestone RB-1, costing about $650 down from about $800 as an end-of-year model when I bought it in the early 1980’s. I came to learn it was considered a classic. After the introduction of carbon fiber bikes, I always wondered if the premium prices of CF, which I considered to be about $2000 was worth the presumed enhanced riding experience.

The Bridgestone was totaled in 2012 in an accident from which I was not sure I would ride again. Well I did, and decided to get a CF. My trusted mechanic said here’s the bike you want, knowing my riding style. Well the MSRP was $8000, but he got it for me at half off.

Now, considering the attitude most non- or occasional cyclists towards bicycles and prices, I’m frankly somewhat embarrassed to admit to paying so much,sounding like some over-the-top conspicuous consumption. Personally, I can afford it, and it was an offer I could not refuse. Cycling is that important to me and I’m fortunate to be able to continue the lifestyle, so that puts it in perspective for me….

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston

…My average speed stayed the same, but I thinkI was hampered by injuries from the accident, and I believe the new bike compensated at least to maintain my average speed. I did note that I was more inclined to sprint (successfully) to beat traffic lights before they turned red. I further craved the smoothness of the ride, including the shifting,making cycle-commuting more pleasurable. Of greatest benefit, while long (greater than 40 mile) rides took the same amount of time as before, I felt much less tired at the end.

As described by @Andy_K, the ride is "ethereal." Over the past year, I have engaged in a few threads about the value of an expensive bike. My ultimate reply is:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim fromBoston

…I won’t rehash these threads, or my posts pro expensive bikes, but my last and most whimsical argument to own one was,“At least I have no buyer's remorse about what I might be missing.”

Canker

This. If you want classic lines and simple graphics their carbon 105 road bike has classic lines and no graphics. They run deals all the time and right now you can get it for $900. If you don't like something on it that gives you some money to change it. I have no idea who actually makes their road bike frame since I've never looked but I have their carbon CX frame and it is just a Fuji without the graphics.

rydabent

Just because CF bikes are the rage right now, dont be a lemming. Investigate the down side of CF bikes. Remember this one simple fact, CF bikes are really carbon fiber reinforced plastic bikes, and are fairly fragile.

mapeiboy

May I suggest this carbon frame Colnago C60 Road Frameset-2016 | Competitive Cyclist

rekmeyata

that's weird because I never found an aluminum, scandium (which I had one but the head tube cracked after about 10,000 miles and they wouldn't cover it saying it was fatigue!), or a CF bike that I ever liked!

Of course I got the new generation of TI bikes that don't have that flex you talked about (it's a Lynskey Peloton) but it's the best riding bike of all my bikes I have. I tested a couple of friends TI bikes including the first version of the Motobecane with the Dura Ace package, and a very expensive Serotta (about $7,000 in 2002) with the Campy Record package, the Serotta was the most comfortable of the 3 but it was also the most flexy and didn't have that confidence feeling in turns, the Motobecane in the flex and handling department was better than the Serotta, but didn't handle or feel as lively as the Lynskey. My friend with the Moto did upgrade his fork with the same fork I have, the Enve 2.0 and used the same headset I have which is the Cane Creek 110 and got to finally ride it again and the fork did make a measurable improvement in the handling. Overall for the price the Motobecane is the best deal for a Ti bike, sure you could spend a lot more money on one but you'll only gain maybe 10% but could pay at least 100% more to achieve that! And the average rider will never even notice or have a want for a better ti bike than the Moto.

OldTryGuy

Another Nashbar fan......Nashbar Carbon 105 Road Bike

rekmeyata

Most people will disagree with you on that, but I won't! So you and I will be abused for speaking out against CF. I've seen a bike that had a stone fired up from the front wheel and put a small hole into the frame! While it's true that any frame material can fail but the problem with CF frames is that they will fail suddenly and without warning. Other material will show some evidence of damage, CF can hide it on the inside of the tube where it will start to spread like cancer then suddenly fail.

My newest bike came with a CF fork which I swapped for a Enve 2.0 fork because that fork has a 275 pound rider weight limit even though I only weigh 170, but the original fork and the Enve 1.0 fork had a 225 pound limit, so I figured if I got a fork that was way over engineered for my weight it should hold up, but that doesn't mean I don't worry about it. I check the fork after any ride where there was some rough play with it, but so far so good. Problem is people today want the lightest possible thing they can get, and that's a recipe for disaster, sure the older original versions of the Trek CF bikes are still riding today but those weighed 20 pounds! The walls and butts where thicker than they are today which made the frame heavier which people don't want because there wouldn't be any advantage over steel in the weight department, and they were very dead feeling to ride on. The lighter the CF frame is the more fragile it is.

People have to keep in mind that the real world is a lot tougher on CF than any test lab which will show the merits of CF, but that all fails in the real world.

The industry wants you to believe that CF is tougher than any other material and in certain aspects that true, but there is some fallacy about all of that when they say stuff like it's tougher than steel; see: https://vimeo.com/106021360
And this:
Then there's the arguement about fatigue is best with CF, see this: https://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/...es-going-soft/
And this: Why steel and titanium are better than carbon fiber

Sudden failure problems is not new: Carbon Fiber Bikes May Be Susceptible To Sudden Failure - Newsome | Melton

Some bike shops have even come out against CF; see: Carbon Fiber Warning My LBS is now even skeptical, but have yet to come out to warn potential buyers because their bread and butter bikes are Trek and if they told people about the truth they would be out of business, but they have warned some privately when someone was keen enough to ask the question. Some of the mechanics at my shop do own CF bikes but the main mechanic refuses to buy one because of all the problems he's seen which he says have been a lot more numerous than any other material. I know too that a local race team sells their CF bikes after each season because of the potential risk that will increase season after season, and this is true in the Pro ranks too.

And you can't squeeze a CF tube to tight or it can break, even the human hand is strong enough to crack a tube if you squeeze it hard enough, here's what Trek says about that: "As carbon frames have gotten lighter and lighter, you can now feel movement in the tubes when you squeeze them. This is normal and no reflection of the strength of the frame. However, repeated compression of the sides of the tubes is not good for them, and could eventually lead to frame damage. Do not squeeze the frame tubing with your fingers, and especially never clamp the tubing in any mechanical device, including car racks." This is why too that clamping anything onto a carbon fiber frame, handlebar, and steerer tube, has specific torque values which must be strictly followed.

Here is a forum where the OP's bike simply fell onto the ground: Carbon Fiber Warning this mirrors what happen to a friend of mine whose 5 year old daughter accidently bumped his bike over and it fell hitting a bench clamp and cracked the frame which at the time he had to throw away because no one was repairing the stuff yet.

Again though a lot of this "squeeze" damage and damage from falling over is due to ultra thin CF tubing to produce the lightest bike possible, whereas heavier CF frames won't have as much of a tendency to do that, but then the weight of today's heavy CF frames is the same as Ti at 17 to 18 pounds, and TI doesn't have all the worries.

Trakhak

Thanks for adding the links. For a one-sentence encapsulation of the writer's hilariously blinkered preference for titanium, it would be tough to beat this sentence from the Ti discussion at the second of the two links above:

It won't break, but if it does it requires specialty skills and equipment to repair.

By the way, there are plenty of threads here and elsewhere concerning broken titanium frames. Judging from the discussions, the toughest aspect of titanium seems to that of trying to get the Ti frame makers to honor their warranties.

If I were interested in a new bike at this point, I'd be looking for exactly what the OP asked for: a CF frame bike with 105 in the plus-minus $1,500 range.

But I'm satisfied with my aluminum bike. I still have two steel bikes (one Reynolds 853 and the other 531), but I haven't bothered riding either in the 10 years since I got the aluminum bike. I just wish aluminum frames had been around when I started racing in 1965.

rekmeyata

The only reason TI fails is at welds, and the reason they fail there is due to an error in the welding process that allowed contamination to get into the welding process and made the weld brittle. So yes if a repair is needed on a TI frame not any joe blow welder can weld it!

Most reputable TI builders will honor their warranties or they won't be in business long once the internet comes alive with problems associated with their frames and failure to stand behind it. Lynskey has been building TI frames forever, he was the owner and creator of LiteSpeed. And the company that builds Motobecane ti road bikes hasn't had any failures that I could find on the internet, they did have a TI mountain bike frame fail but that was due to very rough use which is why Motobecane doesn't sell TI mountain bikes anymore, and also Bikes Direct would not honor one of the MTB failures due to the fact the owner took off all the decals and Moto specifically said their warranty is null and void if you remove the decals...BUT Bikes Direct and Motobecane sent the person a new frame anyways! That's good service from a company that a lot of LBS workers and owners that hang here bad mouth them a lot about. But most companies do have that decal clause, so it's not just a Motobecane thing, you have to read your warranty very carefully to make sure you understand what you can and cannot do. You can read about one of the MTB failures here and what BD did: FLY Ti 29er frame crack- Mtbr.com

Besides my Scandium bike that had the headtube crack wasn't warrantied because they said it was fatigue even though the bike had about 10,000 miles on it. I've known people who took their CF bikes in from all sorts of big name brand bike companies and the fall back position to prevent a claim is fatigue or the customer crashed it. Originally the company my bike was through tried to claim I crashed it but the LBS and I said the bike was all original and there wasn't any damage to anything else therefore it was impossible the damage was due to a crash, so the company changed it to fatigue once they knew they were going to lose on that point. Both the LBS and I argued the point about the fatigue but short of getting a lawyer which would have cost more than the frame was worth we weren't going to win. It does seem though that most warranty issues seem to come more from the Italian side of the world where they won't replace nothing ever, but American companies like Trek, Cannondale, Specialized, etc have had their issues too. There was a guy with a Lynskey who noticed that when he received his bike and had all put together he couldn't get the rear wheel to align up in the stays with the frame, Lynskey replaced the frame with an upgraded frame! I had a friend who had outstanding service from Vitus, he was a large pro bodybuilder and broke 3 of their frames back in the 80's, each time they replaced it no questions asked, Cannondale and Klein both did the same thing when he broke 2 each of their bikes, but that was the 80's when bike companies were struggling for customers.

molten

Breaking C/F Bars is one of the quickest, eziest tasks --- I have ever done.

CliffordK

There are a lot of options on the used market.

I chose to do a scratch build on my "new" CF bike from used parts, mostly acquired on E-Bay (and a couple of co-op or local acquired bits).





Slightly mixed groupset, but mostly Super Record 11 (first series, white label) (6800 brakes, and Shimano wheels). Record 10 cranks on the bike at the moment.

Total outlay was about $1000 to $1500.

Weight was a disappointing 18 pounds (with cages and pedals). But, I'm hoping to shave off another pound or so. Nonetheless, not bad for my use.

I do a lot of commuting and errands, but still, I like it. Currently running Gatorhardshells on the rear, and GP 4S on the front which seems plenty durable for my summer riding.

One of the advantages of doing a scratch frame-up build is that it allows mixing generations of parts. Blasphemy for some, wonder-bike for others.

And the thing does turn heads.

Mobile 155

My Scandium frame cracked at the seat tube But Lapierre replaced it. However they no longer made Scandium race frames so they sent me a CF frame. The first CF bike was not as quick to respond as the Scandium bike even if it was a bit more comfortable on bad pavement. Both were sub 17 pound bikes. The second Lapierre was taken out by a driver making a very important cell phone call. Must have been important anyway. I took the insurance money and bought a Tarmac frame and built the bike from the ground up. Hand built wheels, Hope hubs, SRAM Red. It also has a geometry closer to the old Lapierre Scanduim. Much more fun on hills. Between Ti and CF I would more than likely still pick CF because I like the weight and looks, and because they can customize the ride by the way they lay up the frame. Not that I would kick a Ti bike out of the shed.

But if the OP is thinking about a CF bike for N+1 I don't see longevity has proven to be a big problem to date.