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Disc brakes...time to go mechanical?

Old 04-04-17, 08:31 AM
  #26  
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I don't really get the hydraulic brake snob thing, especially for touring. I've used hydraulic and cable. They're both fine. If I were a hardcore mountain biker doing very technical single track where I had to stop on a dime and was worried about squeezing too hard with panic stops I would go hydraulic. Tooling along at 13-17mph when I can see my next stop a mile down the straightaway, cable is fine. So for touring, pick one. BB7 are good (and if you're patient you can do a lot better than $175), many flavors of hydraulic are good. Either will stop you, neither is death defying. People have even--the horror!--toured with side pull brakes and lived to tell about it.
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Old 04-04-17, 08:40 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by jefnvk
I've taught myself to bleed car and motorcycle brakes. I can't imagine $100 to bleed bike brakes is anything other than folks holding that exact line of thought.

Hydraulics are simple. I'm in the "learn yourself" camp.
I guess you haven't done shorten housings. Hydraulic housing and kits cost money. Also bike shop is like any other shops, they need to pay the employees and pay the rent.

If you are one of those people changing engine oil at home because they want to save $20, I'll say go for it.
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Old 04-04-17, 11:08 AM
  #28  
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Do you like your current brakes and/or have you had issues on any of your past tours with them?


If you like them and don't really have a preference for another type of brake, just get the lines lengthened. I also agree with others, learn to maintain/adjust/bleed/repair them yourself. Familiarity with your own equipment is the best tool you can have while touring.
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Old 04-04-17, 11:51 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by linus
I guess you haven't done shorten housings. Hydraulic housing and kits cost money. Also bike shop is like any other shops, they need to pay the employees and pay the rent.

If you are one of those people changing engine oil at home because they want to save $20, I'll say go for it.
I'd argue for learning how to do the work yourself because it's just a good thing to know if you're planning on touring. It might not be something you'd regularly use on your own bike while moving along, but I've fixed other people's stuff while out on the road on more than a few occasions.
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Old 04-04-17, 12:38 PM
  #30  
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I am sorry if you thought this thread was about "which is better?" I have had a number of mountain and cyclocross bikes that had a mixture of mechanical and hydraulic discs. Honestly, I can't tell the difference between the BB7s and the 445s. I have also never had a brake system failure on either type of bike. BUT, I have now moved to the mountains of Idaho and find myself riding in pretty remote areas. I don't expect to be doing single track riding and I hope no one throws rocks at me. The concern was more about reliability and whether the cost/benefit makes sense in terms of increased reliability.

I live over 100 miles away from an LBS that I trust. If I stay with the hydraulics, I would take the bikes and make the drive to the shop and watch them swap the longer tube to the front and then make a new tube for the back. I am not sure if they sell a bleed kit, but between the u-tube videos and watching them, I am sure I could do this in the future, if it makes sense to go mechanical, then I am sure I can handle this as I have done it before.

Does anyone have experience with hydraulic failures that I need to worry about?
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Old 04-04-17, 01:22 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by manapua_man
I'd argue for learning how to do the work yourself because it's just a good thing to know if you're planning on touring. It might not be something you'd regularly use on your own bike while moving along, but I've fixed other people's stuff while out on the road on more than a few occasions.
I don't disagree that knowing how things work can be helpful. However, I don't see many people carrying a bleed kit with a bottle of mineral oil and extra length of hydraulic housing while people are on tour.

The thing with hydraulic system is that there is no maintenance required. YMMV but, if people do TransAM and around the world trip with hydro brakes, I think you don't need to worry.
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Old 04-04-17, 01:29 PM
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This will be my first year with hydraulic brakes. Mechanical last year. The only forseable problem might be if I have a wreck or bad spill. Even then, only one line or system might be compromised. I would still have one system working to get me to a repair.
Last year I had a drive wheel fail. Very remote location. All I could find to get me the next 350km was a rim brake wheel, on my mechanical disc frame. So I have experienced touring a few days with only a front brake.
Nothing builds confidence like experience.
Enjoy your tour this year.

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Old 04-04-17, 01:47 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by linus
I don't disagree that knowing how things work can be helpful. However, I don't see many people carrying a bleed kit with a bottle of mineral oil and extra length of hydraulic housing while people are on tour.

The thing with hydraulic system is that there is no maintenance required. YMMV but, if people do TransAM and around the world trip with hydro brakes, I think you don't need to worry.
I actually do carry a bleed kit, and mineral oil is easy enough to get if you're running Shimano brakes.


Originally Posted by cyber.snow

Does anyone have experience with hydraulic failures that I need to worry about?

The only times I've had failures with hydros were crashes that would have wrecked everything regardless of brake type. The same applies to mechanical brakes.
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Old 04-04-17, 05:14 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by cyber.snow
I am sorry if you thought this thread was about "which is better?" I have had a number of mountain and cyclocross bikes that had a mixture of mechanical and hydraulic discs. Honestly, I can't tell the difference between the BB7s and the 445s. I have also never had a brake system failure on either type of bike. BUT, I have now moved to the mountains of Idaho and find myself riding in pretty remote areas. I don't expect to be doing single track riding and I hope no one throws rocks at me. The concern was more about reliability and whether the cost/benefit makes sense in terms of increased reliability.

I live over 100 miles away from an LBS that I trust. If I stay with the hydraulics, I would take the bikes and make the drive to the shop and watch them swap the longer tube to the front and then make a new tube for the back. I am not sure if they sell a bleed kit, but between the u-tube videos and watching them, I am sure I could do this in the future, if it makes sense to go mechanical, then I am sure I can handle this as I have done it before.

Does anyone have experience with hydraulic failures that I need to worry about?
And... there you go, usually you do get what you pay for... Yay! There are all sorts of fail stories, fail this, fail that, BUT, real fail stories for hydraulic brakes failing in the middle of nowhere, I have yet to see (probably are some)... I can assure everyone that if you spend the $$$, you will get an hydraulic brake system that will NOT fail... How many failed hydraulic brake vehicle stories have you heard.? They operate at 10X the pressure, 10X the heat, 10 times the weight and, they need to stop, all that at 10X the speed...

Last edited by 350htrr; 04-04-17 at 06:17 PM.
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Old 04-04-17, 05:20 PM
  #35  
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i dont understand how i have never died with my caliper brakes.
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Old 04-04-17, 05:50 PM
  #36  
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I don't understand why people would even buy caliper brakes... or, Even mechanical disk brakes...
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Old 04-04-17, 05:58 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by cyber.snow
I am sorry if you thought this thread was about "which is better?" I have had a number of mountain and cyclocross bikes that had a mixture of mechanical and hydraulic discs. Honestly, I can't tell the difference between the BB7s and the 445s. I have also never had a brake system failure on either type of bike. BUT, I have now moved to the mountains of Idaho and find myself riding in pretty remote areas. I don't expect to be doing single track riding and I hope no one throws rocks at me. The concern was more about reliability and whether the cost/benefit makes sense in terms of increased reliability.

I live over 100 miles away from an LBS that I trust. If I stay with the hydraulics, I would take the bikes and make the drive to the shop and watch them swap the longer tube to the front and then make a new tube for the back. I am not sure if they sell a bleed kit, but between the u-tube videos and watching them, I am sure I could do this in the future, if it makes sense to go mechanical, then I am sure I can handle this as I have done it before.

Does anyone have experience with hydraulic failures that I need to worry about?
I've been running Shimano hydraulics for the last 5-6 years and have never had any type of failures.
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Old 04-04-17, 09:21 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by 2 Piece
Actually, it is a pretty simple job. Is it different than replacing cables? Yes, but that does not make it a hard job by any means.
Your definition of "simple" is very different from mine. Changing a cable is simple. Anything that involves bleeding brakes is far from simple. Add in the steps you need for making the connections on the tubing and the job becomes very complicated.
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Old 04-04-17, 10:28 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
Your definition of "simple" is very different from mine. Changing a cable is simple. Anything that involves bleeding brakes is far from simple. Add in the steps you need for making the connections on the tubing and the job becomes very complicated.
Maybe so? I helped build my house, did all the wiring and plumbing in the basement it passed inspection on first try. I mostly repair all my vechicles, not to save $20 but to make sure it is done right. I do most all my on wrenching on my bicycles, even re-laced some wheels with new hubs. But since my LBS only charges $40 to re-lace wheels and he does a good job, I now let him do the wheel building.
Hydraulic brakes on bicycles are pretty easy. Plastic tubing and compression fittings. Compared to cars which require double flare ends in steel tubing, the plastic tubing and compression fittings are pretty easy. I have only bleed my hydraulic brakes twice, bought a Jag wire brake service kit, and had no problems or ant mess to speak of. My hydraulics are Shimano and use mineral oil I use to have a Catrike 559 which had mechanical BB7's I think, and they were fine, but from what I can tell seems like most Catrike owners (the ones who tinker/ improve) will upgrade to hydraulics at some point.
The real good thing about hydraulic brakes is once you get them set, and that is very easy to do, you never have to adjust them again until you replace the pads.
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Old 04-05-17, 04:29 AM
  #40  
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2piece, you do realize that compared to most folks, you are a lot more mechanically inclined than the majority.
I had to learn new skills with my mechanical discs, but to a certain extent I do enjoy doing mechanical things, especially with bikes, but I figure that most people don't.

I still reckon that in the case of the op here, either is fine, but mechanical will certainly take away any fluid loss from damage concerns, although realistically the chances of this happening are probably the same as bending the crap out of a rotor with a crash into something hard, which the MTN bike guys are probably better to ask how common it actually happens.
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Old 04-05-17, 07:28 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by 2 Piece
Maybe so? I helped build my house, did all the wiring and plumbing in the basement it passed inspection on first try. I mostly repair all my vechicles, not to save $20 but to make sure it is done right. I do most all my on wrenching on my bicycles, even re-laced some wheels with new hubs. But since my LBS only charges $40 to re-lace wheels and he does a good job, I now let him do the wheel building.
Building wheels is fairly easy once you know how to do it but I wouldn't call it a simple job either. The problem here is that you as saying that it is simple which is different from being easy. There are a lot of pitfalls for someone who has never done it nor has someone to show them how. And even then, they may not retain the information for the next time. I can show anyone how to build a very good wheel but unless they practice doing it, the possibility of them building a good wheel a month, much less years, down the line is going to be very low. It takes practice to learn skills.

Originally Posted by 2 Piece
Hydraulic brakes on bicycles are pretty easy. Plastic tubing and compression fittings. Compared to cars which require double flare ends in steel tubing, the plastic tubing and compression fittings are pretty easy. I have only bleed my hydraulic brakes twice, bought a Jag wire brake service kit, and had no problems or ant mess to speak of. My hydraulics are Shimano and use mineral oil I use to have a Catrike 559 which had mechanical BB7's I think, and they were fine, but from what I can tell seems like most Catrike owners (the ones who tinker/ improve) will upgrade to hydraulics at some point.
This is a good example of what I'm talking about. I've never changed tubing on hydraulic brakes. I've looked at how it is done and I'm fairly confident that I could do it but there are a whole lot more parts and procedure involve than with mechanical brakes. Some of them could be very confusing for someone who is not mechanically inclined and, if they miss something, the results can be disastrous.

As for bleeding brakes not being messy, that's strictly a matter of opinion. The procedure is somewhat complicated and there is a fair amount of waste involved. If you are flushing the system...something that needs to be done with some regularity...the amount of waste is even greater. With DOT fluid, there is even hazardous material that needs to be dealt with. None of this stuff...even the mineral oil...should go into municipal solid was nor be flushed down a drain.

Another aspect of hydraulics that people don't talk about is the levers are much more complicated than cable actuated levers. They have a seals that can degrade and need to be taken apart occasionally for repair. It could be daunting even to people who are mechanically inclined.

Originally Posted by 2 Piece
The real good thing about hydraulic brakes is once you get them set, and that is very easy to do, you never have to adjust them again until you replace the pads.
And how is that any different from any other bicycle brake system? Rim brakes and mechanical discs don't require constant tinkering for them to work. Once set, they don't need much attention nor do they need any maintenance of any kind.

One of the things that is being brought up in this discussion is that hydraulics "never need maintenance". Except when the seals wear out or when the fluid is contaminated or the pads wear out or the system gets some air in it. Yes, rim and mechanical disc may need an occasional turn of an adjuster barrel as the pads where but that's hardly an onerous task. Brake cables and housing will last roughly forever unless the bike is stored outside and then they last forever minus a day or two.

On the other hand, if a hydraulic system needs maintenance, you'd better set aside a significant chunk of time...you'll need it.
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Old 04-05-17, 08:28 AM
  #42  
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Or buy some new Shimano hydro brakes for cheap. Here's a set for $64, all set to mount, no bleeding required:
https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...34&category=30
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Old 04-05-17, 08:45 AM
  #43  
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Somewhat timely - I was just reading this. If you are looking to buy hydraulic brakes, here's a guy selling his Shimano Deore hydraulic disk brakes that he swapped for Avid BB7s because both the hydraulic brakes -- rear, then the front, on separate occasions -- failed while riding to Mt Everest. He thinks the failures are related to cold weather.

https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/...id=487603&v=4V

https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/...id=487817&v=3n

https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/..._id=488407&v=g
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Old 04-05-17, 09:17 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by bwgride
Somewhat timely - I was just reading this. If you are looking to buy hydraulic brakes, here's a guy selling his Shimano Deore hydraulic disk brakes that he swapped for Avid BB7s because both the hydraulic brakes -- rear, then the front, on separate occasions -- failed while riding to Mt Everest. He thinks the failures are related to cold weather.
IIRC poor performance/durability in colder weather is a known issue with certain (mostly older) models of Shimano hydraulic brakes. You'll see it mentioned on MTB forums and by the fat bike crowd every so often.
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Old 04-05-17, 09:27 AM
  #45  
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Cold weather riders need to buy DOT. 4 hydraulic brake fluid, that is what is recommended for my hydraulic brakes... I put in synthetic the first time I changed the pads and never touched them again, ever, just put in new pads, never needed to adjust, never needed to bleed, never needed to fix, over the last 16 years...
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Old 04-05-17, 09:41 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by 350htrr
l... How many failed hydraulic brake vehicle stories have you heard.? They operate at 10X the pressure, 10X the heat, 10 times the weight and, they need to stop, all that at 10X the speed...
Vehicle brake systems have redundancies built in so that if there is something like a line failure, the whole system does not fail. You might lose a wheel, but not all four.


Originally Posted by 350htrr
I don't understand why people would even buy caliper brakes... or, Even mechanical disk brakes...
It is a question of what is good enough. I am in the process of building up a bike, I am using a frame that will only take disc and a fork that has canti posts. I will be using V brakes on front and mechanical disc on rear. Quite frankly I can't imagine why I would want to switch.
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Old 04-05-17, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
Vehicle brake systems have redundancies built in so that if there is something like a line failure, the whole system does not fail. You might lose a wheel, but not all four.




It is a question of what is good enough. I am in the process of building up a bike, I am using a frame that will only take disc and a fork that has canti posts. I will be using V brakes on front and mechanical disc on rear. Quite frankly I can't imagine why I would want to switch.
You also have a redundancy for the bicycle, you have two separate braking systems for it too...

What is good enough,? I agree, that for everyone there is a different line/level of what is good enough, or even what they can, or want to afford...

My main point is, get the best you can afford... Then, usually quality shows by having dependability/reliability/usability/...
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Old 04-05-17, 02:11 PM
  #48  
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mechanical disc are not much better than good V-brakes ...

depends where you tour, where I tour there is ""nothing"" ... ""nada"" having a problem with mechanical disc (maybe) one can fix it on the road.
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Old 04-05-17, 05:12 PM
  #49  
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the Everest hydro story is a good one, pretty sucky for that fellow (and others who were having the same issue in the group he was in)

re disc vs rim. I used to just think, meh, but they certainly do slow down a loaded bike very easily and efficiently. I still like rim brakes for the complete simplicity, but am certainly about 50/50 having experienced discs now in very hilly terrain.
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Old 04-05-17, 05:15 PM
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Instead of everyone going back and forth on Mech vs Hydraulic I will take my usual stance of "where are you going touring?"

OP, unless your on a long tour in the developing world that will require servicing your brakes, I would stick with your hydraulic brakes. Everything is better about hydraulic brakes; they are super reliable, very nice to use and frankly if you were to walk into just about every bike shop in the developed world; easily repairable.

Are you going to wander on this bike for years at a time or riding regularly in sub zero weather? Go with Mech disc brakes.

Seriously though, I would worry more about tires, saddles and luggage carrying systems more than I would worry about braking systems on a touring bike. Use what you like; all the modern braking systems are excellent and have few downsides.

I run Avid BB7's myself as that's what my 3 bikes all came stock with. They work, I've invested in the spare parts and know how to fix them on the side of the road 1000 km+ from a mud bike shop in rural Africa.
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