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Sleeping system/shelter

Old 05-10-17, 06:02 AM
  #1  
Fritzov
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Sleeping system/shelter

Total newbie into touring/bikepacking and looking to start doing over night trips during the weekends and is looking for recommendation for a sleeping system and or shelter. I will be doing solo trips so it will only need to fit myself. My budget would be around 300-400 dollars. Anyone have any suggestions ?
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Old 05-10-17, 06:11 AM
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You're kind of asking two different questions. Ideal sleep systems and shelters for (fully loaded) touring will be different from the ideal system for bikepacking, at least as far as tents/shelters are concerned.

However, for both applications, the Therm-a-Rest NeoAir XTherm is going to be one of the lightest, most compact, and most comfortable sleeping pads that you can buy. It retails for about $175, so it's not cheap at all, but it packs down to about the size of a tall boy aluminum can and inflates/deflates quickly. I've used it for years and couldn't say enough good things about it.

If we're talking specifically about touring-appropriate shelters that aren't as restricted by bike-packing size requirements, I would recommend the Marmot Limelight tent, either the one- or two-person version. I personally use Limelight 2P, because the packed weight and size is only slightly greater than the 1P, and the extra room on a rainy night makes all the difference in the world. Well, to me at least.

Last edited by suburbanbeat; 05-10-17 at 06:15 AM.
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Old 05-10-17, 07:07 AM
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I've been successfully using a single-wall tarp hybrid from Tarptent.com. And a very nice 30F down quilt from enLightened Equipment. I sleep fine with a simple closed cell foam pad. That all cost me about $400 (five years ago), total weight just over three pounds. You could save money on a less expensive bag or quilt.
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Old 05-10-17, 07:43 AM
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Library has back issues of backpacking magazines, to read a lot of gear revues..

an REI store will have all their most popular stuff on display to try in person.

crawl in the bag ,see if a mummy , the lightest bag will be tolerable, and tents too big or small.
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Old 05-10-17, 07:50 AM
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My plan for over-night/short trips or times when I want to go light/minimal:

Borah Gear Snowyside Event Bivy, Air pad of choice (klymit ones pack small, are cheaper, and the gaps allow your sleeping bag to insulate below you), and whatever 30-40 degree down bag you can find on closeout (mine's a Marmot something or other I've had for a few years).
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Old 05-10-17, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by suburbanbeat
However, for both applications, the Therm-a-Rest NeoAir XTherm is going to be one of the lightest, most compact, and most comfortable sleeping pads that you can buy. It retails for about $175, so it's not cheap at all, but it packs down to about the size of a tall boy aluminum can and inflates/deflates quickly. I've used it for years and couldn't say enough good things about it.
How loud is it? I've looked at some of their models, and it seemed like they sounded like crumpling paper when moving around on them.
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Old 05-10-17, 08:17 AM
  #7  
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Originally Posted by rickyk76
How loud is it? I've looked at some of their models, and it seemed like they sounded like crumpling paper when moving around on them.
How recently did you try them out? Yesterday I read some never user reviews that claim TR has fixed the original noise problem.
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Old 05-10-17, 09:11 AM
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The X-lite is cheaper but does not have as much R factor. Not a problem over 40 degrees or so.
Check out what the backpackers think about it at, Whiteblaze.net
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Old 05-10-17, 09:19 AM
  #9  
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Love my hammock-camping rig. I've used it for mini tours and weekend bike-camping trips many times. I'll be trying it with a bikepacking set-up in the near future. Right now the whole set-up: hammock, underquilt, overquilt, and tarp takes up about 21 liters of space, but my quilts are synthetic, so they don't pack down that small, and I'm not using any compression sacks, so I feel like it could be a fair amount smaller, but that would just free up more room for more junk, so maybe not necessary.
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Old 05-10-17, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
How recently did you try them out? Yesterday I read some never user reviews that claim TR has fixed the original noise problem.
About 2 weeks ago at a General Mast store in Asheville, NC. No idea if it was old stock or what.
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Old 05-10-17, 01:36 PM
  #11  
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My touring/bikepacking set ups are the same, small and light as possible. An eno double nest hammock, tarp to fit on the diagonal, closed cell foam pad and a bug net. Warm weather New England tourer here. No need for underquilt, also allows to sleep on the ground. I use a 45 F North face sleeping bag, very small and minimalist. Not everyone can get comfortable in a hammock, trees are usually good to have too, plenty in New England. Nice to get off the ground for critters, monsoons and sideways sitting makes a nice chair as well.
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Old 05-10-17, 02:06 PM
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Hammock Option
1. Top quilt - see Hammockgear.com - they have a line of economy quilts that use 1.1 nylon material with 800 down (treated to be water resistant). These are good quality quilts for low price. The standard length quilt (74"x50" 19.5oz) rated at 30F is 138, and for wide version (74"x55" 21.5oz) $158.

2. Bottom quilt - again, see economy line from Hammockgear.com. I recommend getting full length. Standard full length underquilt at 30F is $138. Down top and underquilts pack much smaller than comparable synthetic versions, so less space needed with bikepacking.

3. Hammock - many options available at good prices. I recommend one with ridgeline for consistent hang. They are easy to make, but if new you may opt to buy. Warbonnetoutdoors.com makes great hammocks - their traveler without net is $60. dutchwaregear.com also has a number of nice options for good prices. There is also the $30 hammock that can be bought from amazon, walmart, etc. Usually these do not have a ridgeline to provide consistent hangs, and are usually heavier than those noted above. Try to avoid parachute nylon hammock since they can stretch during the night and leave you on the ground or close to it. Ripstop nylon seems to perform better as hammock material than parachute nylon. Also, avoid nylon straps as a hammock suspension for the same reason. Use either polyester straps or whoopy slings for suspension. Depending on where you plan to go, a bug net may be needed. Two general types - those attached to hammocks, and those that are separate. For the price and weight, buying an initial hammock with attached bug net might be less expensive.

4. Tarps - a silnylon 11' or 12' tarp is they way to go. Warbonnetoutdoors.com mamajamba at about $120 is excellent, and dutchwaregear.com has a silnylon tarp for $95 that is 11'. To save money, there are a number of good, inexpensive tarps too. For example, the Chinook 12' tarp costs about $45 on Amazon and works well, but is heavier than the silnylon tarps.

More information can be found on Hammock Forums - Elevate Your Perspective


Tent Option
1. Tents - Tarptent (as someone else mentioned) make excellent, lightweight tents. For less money, there are a number of small tents that can be found for under $200 (e.g. Sierra Designs, Eureka, etc.). A good place to find inexpensive tents is Tents: Average savings of 36% at Sierra Trading Post -- get on their email flyer for weekly discounts.

2. Quilt - I recommend a wide quilt rather than sleeping bag. The quilt noted above in hammocks is very good value. You can find good prices on sleeping bags at sierratradingpost,com

3. Pad - many have offer suggestions here.
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Old 05-10-17, 06:59 PM
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Depending on what the overnight low is expected to be on your overnight in midsummer, and how warm you sleep, you might just leave the sleeping bag at home and take a cheap synthetic fleece blanket instead.
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Old 05-10-17, 07:05 PM
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My Therm-a-Rest NeoAir XTherm is not noisy although is was pricey. BUT it is by far the most comfortable, lightest, and most compressible++, sleeping pad I've ever used. It's amazingly tough too!
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Old 05-10-17, 07:22 PM
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A lot of this gear is expensive and the OP has a budget of $300-$400 for tent, sleeping bag, and sleeping pad.

I'd hunt around for gear on sale; check out REI outlet and Sierra Trading post.

By and large you are not going to go wrong getting gear from reputable manufacturers.

This big agnes air core sleeping is $55.73 at REI outlet for example:

https://www.rei.com/rei-garage/produ...e-sleeping-pad

I like that it's 3.25 inches; I find a little thicker matters more comfortable.

For sleeping bags, I'd look at synthetic in your price range like this mountainsmith bag at $89.73

https://www.rei.com/rei-garage/produ...f-sleeping-bag

The weight isn't terrible either. That leaves you in the neighborhood of $150 for a tent if trying to get your gear for $300 total.

A lot of folks on BF like this Eureka spitfire tent; it's a good design. The 2 person (and you really want the extra space for a 2 person even if going solo) is on sale at Campor for $159.96

https://www.campmor.com/c/eureka-spitfire-2-tent

Last edited by bikemig; 05-10-17 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 05-11-17, 04:51 AM
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That air core, while a decent deal, will literally suck the warmth out of your body. Not a problem unless lows drop below the high 40s or so. I have one and use it but wish I would have gotten something with at least some R value. Even in a 32 degree bag I can feel cold on that pad in the mid 40s. The issue being that the insulation in the sleeping bag doesn't work when it is compressed between the body and the pad. Planning to replace it with a Klymit pad that allows a bag to insulate a bit from below. This is one place I would not skimp again if I had the choice. It is much easier to unzip your sleeping bag to let out some warmth than it is to deal with a cold back in the middle of the night until the sun rises. Spending twenty more dollars to upgrade to the insulated version is certainly worth it if you ever think you might spend cool to cold nights outdoors...
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Old 05-11-17, 05:00 AM
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What sorts of night temperatures are you thinking? Are you close to an outdoor store like REI to see things in person? Do you need the ultimate now or some basics and upgrade when you learn more?

I tend to be a tent+pad+sleeping bag person since that gives me a lot of flexibility.

For tents: weight, size as well as protection from elements, bugs and condensation matter. Tarps are a light weight option for some. Easiest thing is to see some tents since folks are different on amount of space that feels comfortable/claustrophobic. I personally have two person tent I can sit up in, bring in my gear and protection against worst of the bugs but you may be fine with something more minimal.

Sleeping bags are rated to lowest temperatures. Weight is trade-off here as well as if it retains heat after getting wet. Get enough for you conditions but not too much more bulky/heavy.

Sleeping pads provide insulation and comfort. They can be full length or shorter. Quite useful.

Visiting an outdoor store will show some of the products.

It is possible to get some items on the cheap first e.g. tube tent, basic bag and pad. Potentially also to borrow some items. May not be the ultimate yet, but enough to get you by and then upgrade selected items as you get experience and learn your preferences.
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Old 05-11-17, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by BigAura
My Therm-a-Rest NeoAir XTherm is not noisy although is was pricey. BUT it is by far the most comfortable, lightest, and most compressible++, sleeping pad I've ever used. It's amazingly tough too!
I like my NeoAir as well. I've now punctured two of them camping in desert regions with thorns and sharp things under the tent. One in Africa and second in Baja Mexico. They include a patch kit, but can be tough to find the holes.
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Old 05-11-17, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by suburbanbeat
You're kind of asking two different questions. Ideal sleep systems and shelters for (fully loaded) touring will be different from the ideal system for bikepacking, at least as far as tents/shelters are concerned.
I bikepack, I tour and I backpack. I use the same shelter for all three modes. It has never occurred to me "I needed" an "ideal system" for each mode or any specific mode such as touring so I am very curious as to your rationale here. After all it is all it is camping irrespective of style of transport. The only consideration I had in my choice of shelter was its pack-down size, so if the OP is serious about bikepacking that is maybe something to consider.

My current choice of shelter is a Zpacks Duplex which being cuban fibre hasn't really ticked the packability box but I am happy with it. That said it is outside the price range of the OP so not suggesting it as suitable option.

My previous shelter was a Tarptent which is differently a brand I would recommend to the OP. Some excellent options in their range.

This is my bikepacking setup BTW ...

Holland Track Day 2: Salsa Mukluk at Granite Rock Outcrop by Andrew Priest, on Flickr
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Old 05-11-17, 06:46 AM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by john_mct
That air core, while a decent deal, will literally suck the warmth out of your body. Not a problem unless lows drop below the high 40s or so. I have one and use it but wish I would have gotten something with at least some R value. Even in a 32 degree bag I can feel cold on that pad in the mid 40s. The issue being that the insulation in the sleeping bag doesn't work when it is compressed between the body and the pad. Planning to replace it with a Klymit pad that allows a bag to insulate a bit from below. This is one place I would not skimp again if I had the choice. It is much easier to unzip your sleeping bag to let out some warmth than it is to deal with a cold back in the middle of the night until the sun rises. Spending twenty more dollars to upgrade to the insulated version is certainly worth it if you ever think you might spend cool to cold nights outdoors...
That's a really good point about the R value. I was thinking more about trying to hit the OP's budget and a pad that was reasonably thick. The OP can get the same pad with a much higher R value for $71.73 and still be well within budget

https://www.rei.com/rei-garage/produ...ng-pad-regular

By and large most of the posts have ignored the OP's budget in making recommendations.
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Old 05-11-17, 07:07 AM
  #21  
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Have a hunt on Steep And Cheap. If time is not an issue eventually you'll find everything you want at the right price.
Exped Down Mattress $110, Alps Mountaineering Chaos 2 tent $120. I got a North Face Campforter for about $130. Covers pretty well everything you need.
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Old 05-11-17, 08:02 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by rickyk76
How loud is it? I've looked at some of their models, and it seemed like they sounded like crumpling paper when moving around on them.
So my X Therm is probably about 3 years old now, which I assume makes it an "old" version. I was initially reluctant based on that same concern that it would be too noisy. Personally, I don't find it to be all that noisy. It does kind of sound "papery" when moving around on it, but that sound isn't loud enough to bother me or my wife, awake or asleep.

If you can imagine what one of those foil emergency blankets might sound like if you were to move it around, it sounds kind of like that. But again, when its in the context of wind/insects/ambient noise, it's barely noticeable.
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Old 05-11-17, 08:46 AM
  #23  
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One option no one has tossed out if you don't need lots of padding: the blue roll pads. I use them for most all of my camping. Finally bought an inflatable, because I didn't want to eat up the space in my plane luggage, but the blue rolls are cheap and effective for me.

Moosejaw outlet has a few Marmot 2P tents in the mid $100's right now.

Sleeping bag, only thing I can suggest is that you figure out what temps you'll be using it in, and get one 15-20F lower than those expected temps. I use a 25F for Michigan summers, where the temps can easily get down in the high 40s/low 50s. If it is warmer, I just leave it unzipped. I haven't seen too many truly quality bags in temp ratings much higher than that either.

Also, if you have a Gander Mountain around you, they are all liquidating right now, you may be able to grab a deal on a bag and pad.
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Old 05-16-17, 03:22 PM
  #24  
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Sleep options

I carry gear for 4 different modes of sleep. The quickest to set up is if I am just going to crash and try to recharge is a 8 X 10 poly tarp, a sleeping bag or blanket and a blow-up pillow. If there are bugs I throw a bivy down on the tarp. Depending on time and temperature I also carry two Eped - Downmat XP 9 LW air mattresses. They are heavy compared to backpacking gear and are well insulated. When there is proper support to hang it, I use an Amok hammock. The Exped air mattress fits it like a glove. It has bug protection like the bivy and it's own tarp when I chose to use it. If I am going to be in a spot a little longer I will put up a Trail Star tarp/shelter. This is an amazing piece of gear. When it's raining heavy I will often put this up over bivy, hammock, or tent. I had it specially built so it can be hung or supported by an extendable pole. It can be lowered to the ground and staked in heavy wind, set-up cocked back to enjoy the view or elevated over the hammock and used as a rain/sunscreen. When I get somewhere that I want to stay a few days I set up Bertha... a Hilleberg Keron 4 GT with both air mattresses. This has space for everything, and then some. On the inside of these, I use a Rumpl camping blanket or a Sierra Designs Backcountry Bed, double sleeping bag. One last item that comes in handy is a silk double sleeping bag liner. It helps with dialing in the right level of warmth and to keep the bag and/or blanket clean. This gear gives me all the options I ever need. Yes, it's overkill and heavy. Weight isn't the biggest problem but rather size. The bag and blanket have to be packed with cinch straps and the air mattresses are large and heavy themselves. If it's warm out start with what is appropriate and add pieces as you can. Think of it like clothing, loose and layered. Hope this helps.
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Old 05-16-17, 05:00 PM
  #25  
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You must be one tough dude to be able to carry 4 sleeping systems, umbrella, stainless steel thermos jug, and a folding chair on tours. Have you ever toured in a place that has hills?

Last edited by Doug64; 05-16-17 at 05:21 PM.
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