Disagreements
#1
Rain Rider
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 108
Bikes: Breezer Beltway (commuter), Co-Motion Deschutes, Specialized Tarmac, Salsa La Cruz (rain bike), Co-Motion Tandem
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Disagreements
As I read the debates on double versus triple chain rings in my last post it makes me think of how divergent our opinions are. Mostly this is fine, if we don't think our answer is right and everyone should be doing what we do, and, if we are polite, then I generally enjoy the different perspectives. I've been cycling for years but I'm still open to learning. For fun though I thought I'd put together a list of things we disagree on:
Without debating the above, any other hot topics I'm missing?
EDIT/UPDATE - Wow great input everyone! It is really interesting to see the range of things we disagree on. I think it would make an interesting adventure cycling article.
- Wheels Size - 700C, 26", 650B this debate comes up again and again
- Disc Brakes - What everyone should tour with or unnecessary and hard to get spare parts in remote areas?
- STI/Brake Shifter - The only way to shift or completely unreliable and totally inappropriate for tour
- Triple versus Double Crank - Are triple crank DoDo birds on the way out or the only crank choice for touring?
- Wide Tires - Is the move to wider tires at lower pressure the right answer for touring or just the latest trend?
- Panniers - Ortlieb or Arkel? Which is best?
Without debating the above, any other hot topics I'm missing?
EDIT/UPDATE - Wow great input everyone! It is really interesting to see the range of things we disagree on. I think it would make an interesting adventure cycling article.
Last edited by Diamond; 11-05-17 at 04:58 PM.
#2
Bike touring webrarian
Clipless pedals vs toe clips vs flats.
I use clipless pedals and really like them.
I use clipless pedals and really like them.
#3
Sunshine
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,506
Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10873 Post(s)
Liked 7,354 Times
in
4,125 Posts
Traditional rack setup vs rackless bikepacking.
As with most everything else, there is really no right or wrong way.
As with most everything else, there is really no right or wrong way.
#4
Senior Member
Tubes vs tubeless
drop bars vs flat
clipless pedals vs platform
solar panels vs hub dynamo
panniers vs frame bags
steel vs modern materials
schrader vs presta
drop bars vs flat
clipless pedals vs platform
solar panels vs hub dynamo
panniers vs frame bags
steel vs modern materials
schrader vs presta
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,505
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 139 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5681 Post(s)
Liked 2,386 Times
in
1,320 Posts
You missed a bit on the panniers question. It's not so much about brand (anymore than anything else is) but about whether they're necessary, how large, and using front panniers.
IMO- besides the usual personal bias issues, we have plenty of debate about touring because it encompasses such a wide spectrum.
We have experienced light tourists, traveling in style and using lodging, folks packing more and camping at least some of the time, folks like myself that mix lodging and camping, but don't cook on the road, other than some coffee or other simple stuff.
Then there's touring in the "civilized" world where spare parts can be managed easily, either bought locally or using the excellent logistics available, vs. touring in more remote areas where one has to be nearly 100% self reliant, and cannot count on getting service parts easily.
So, I expect disagreement, and feel it's part of the forum, and take the attitude that I'm free to ignore any post I don't like.
IMO- besides the usual personal bias issues, we have plenty of debate about touring because it encompasses such a wide spectrum.
We have experienced light tourists, traveling in style and using lodging, folks packing more and camping at least some of the time, folks like myself that mix lodging and camping, but don't cook on the road, other than some coffee or other simple stuff.
Then there's touring in the "civilized" world where spare parts can be managed easily, either bought locally or using the excellent logistics available, vs. touring in more remote areas where one has to be nearly 100% self reliant, and cannot count on getting service parts easily.
So, I expect disagreement, and feel it's part of the forum, and take the attitude that I'm free to ignore any post I don't like.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 11,097
Bikes: 1961 Ideor, 1966 Perfekt 3 Speed AB Hub, 1994 Bridgestone MB-6, 2006 Airnimal Joey, 2009 Thorn Sherpa, 2013 Thorn Nomad MkII, 2015 VO Pass Hunter, 2017 Lynskey Backroad, 2017 Raleigh Gran Prix, 1980s Bianchi Mixte on a trainer. Others are now gone.
Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3418 Post(s)
Liked 1,435 Times
in
1,119 Posts
The big disagreement is how much weight to carry. Some of the ultra light packers are downright evangelical about it. I have seen several groups of riders seriously dehydrated by the time they get to a campground because they did not want to carry very much weight in water. Once I gave a rider half of one of my water bottles because I was not sure he would make the next half mile to where there was a water supply. On the other extreme, at one time on one of my trips I had two weeks of food on my bike along with the gear I would need for sub-freezing weather, that was a very heavy bike.
Derailleur vs IGH (Rohloff, Shimano, etc.) vs a gearing system built into the frame (pinion). And of course the single speed folks. (Since I have a Rohloff touring bike and two derailleur touring bikes, I chuckle at these arguments as they usually are arguing about meaningless points.)
For the non-derailleur bikes, chain or belt?
There is a small group of front-only pannier proponents.
Some believe that GPS is totally unnecessary if you can read a map, others won't leave home without one.
How many spokes do you really need?
Fenders or not?
Leather seat or not?
How many sprockets do you really need on a cassette (7, 8, 9, 10, 11, are they up to 12 yet?).
Derailleur vs IGH (Rohloff, Shimano, etc.) vs a gearing system built into the frame (pinion). And of course the single speed folks. (Since I have a Rohloff touring bike and two derailleur touring bikes, I chuckle at these arguments as they usually are arguing about meaningless points.)
For the non-derailleur bikes, chain or belt?
There is a small group of front-only pannier proponents.
Some believe that GPS is totally unnecessary if you can read a map, others won't leave home without one.
How many spokes do you really need?
Fenders or not?
Leather seat or not?
How many sprockets do you really need on a cassette (7, 8, 9, 10, 11, are they up to 12 yet?).
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,857
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 595 Post(s)
Liked 277 Times
in
188 Posts
As long disagreements don't become personal, it can all be very entertaining as well as educational. I really feel this forum above all others remains quite civil most of the time. As you glean through the debate, there is a wealth of knowledge to be gained here, which far exceeds what is available at most any bike shop. That being said, I have a friend whom I call the Touring Queen because she has crossed the U.S. a dozen or more times in every conceivable direction as well as traveled abroad and the one time she offered sound advice on this forum, she was emphatically told that she was doing it all wrong : )
#8
bicycle tourist
Probably something in the shelter category, e.g. tents, hammocks, tarps, etc.
Also the topic of stealth camping and related opinions about it...
As far as the disagreements go, I see a bunch of them as differences in both perspective and style. In my opinion, there isn't necessarily just one way to tour, nor one ideal set of equipment. There are some choices that may not best suited for some riders but that often sorts itself out fairly quickly. I often learn something when people describe rationale *behind* their choices and so appreciate the discussion.
Also the topic of stealth camping and related opinions about it...
As far as the disagreements go, I see a bunch of them as differences in both perspective and style. In my opinion, there isn't necessarily just one way to tour, nor one ideal set of equipment. There are some choices that may not best suited for some riders but that often sorts itself out fairly quickly. I often learn something when people describe rationale *behind* their choices and so appreciate the discussion.
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 179
Bikes: '97 W'ford X-11, '00 W'ford RS-22; '06 VO Rando; '07 Surly Cross-Check; '08 VO Pass Hunter; Riv Homer Hilsen; '09 Riv Sam Hillborne; '09 VO Polyvalent; '11 Rich Adams; '13 VO Campeur; '17 Riv Cheviot
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Threaded versus threadless. Threadless is the only way to go, unless of course it's not.
#12
Senior Member
#17
Bikes are okay, I guess.
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 9,128
Bikes: Waterford Paramount Touring, Giant CFM-2, Raleigh Sports 3-speeds in M23 & L23, Schwinn Cimarron oddball build, Marin Palisades Trail dropbar conversion, Nishiki Cresta GT
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2647 Post(s)
Liked 2,445 Times
in
1,557 Posts
Solo versus otherwise.
Riding at night versus not.
Accordion music or not.
Shirts versus skins.
Fuzzy dice versus hula girls.
Riding at night versus not.
Accordion music or not.
Shirts versus skins.
Fuzzy dice versus hula girls.
#18
Senior Member
godzilla vs. megalon!
.....awright kiddies, raise yer hand if ya played hookie an' seen this'n at the pitcher house...
.....awright kiddies, raise yer hand if ya played hookie an' seen this'n at the pitcher house...
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: QC Canada
Posts: 1,943
Bikes: Custom built LHT & Troll
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 824 Post(s)
Liked 134 Times
in
99 Posts
There is a difference between different preferences and disagreements over "facts". I am under the impression that in this forum, most disagreements reflect differences in preferences. As such they can provide the stimulus for a thoughtful conversation that can change the way we think about an issue.
I can think, as of now, about one disagreement based on facts -- should we or should we not clean chains in order to get more mileage out of them. Assuming the we all prefer more miles/kms, the debate should focus on "is it worth the effort". But cost/benefit ratio notwithstanding, we are confronted with diametrically different advices, coming from credible sources, some saying that cleaning chains (with solvent) should be avoided (Shimano's position), others saying that we should (Wipperman, Sheldon Brown).
The "there is no right or wrong answer" applies to differences in preferences, so these "disagreements" will go on forever. The situation is different when disagreements are rooted in objective facts.
I can think, as of now, about one disagreement based on facts -- should we or should we not clean chains in order to get more mileage out of them. Assuming the we all prefer more miles/kms, the debate should focus on "is it worth the effort". But cost/benefit ratio notwithstanding, we are confronted with diametrically different advices, coming from credible sources, some saying that cleaning chains (with solvent) should be avoided (Shimano's position), others saying that we should (Wipperman, Sheldon Brown).
The "there is no right or wrong answer" applies to differences in preferences, so these "disagreements" will go on forever. The situation is different when disagreements are rooted in objective facts.
Last edited by gauvins; 11-06-17 at 06:42 AM.
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 38,966
Mentioned: 210 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18269 Post(s)
Liked 15,185 Times
in
7,172 Posts
Are red bikes really faster?
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Hull, England
Posts: 253
Bikes: Tern Link A7 Folding Bike, Marin Gestalt 2019
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 73 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Interesting thread. If, you go back to the original post and clean it up, stick in links to previous threads relating to the said subjects/debates, it could be made into a sticky for future first-comers to navigate through.
#23
Senior Member
I disagree with your disagreements list.
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: northern Deep South
Posts: 8,826
Bikes: Fuji Touring, Novara Randonee
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2568 Post(s)
Liked 1,889 Times
in
1,185 Posts