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Help ID an Aero frame? Serotta?

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Help ID an Aero frame? Serotta?

Old 10-28-20, 09:38 PM
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Help ID an Aero frame? Serotta?

So I apologise in advance for the poor pictures, these are not from me. But I will have some better pictures tomorrow hopefully.

I looked up some of the Shimano AX frames from back in the day, but this one has a very unusual seat cluster.

It does have Serotta decals but I'm just not sure that it would be a Serotta, mainly because I can't find any pictures where they were built with that seat cluster.

Does anyone have any leads on what this could actually be?



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Old 10-29-20, 08:49 AM
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Morning Bump.

It looks like the Lotus Super Aero Pro headtube, and the seat post is held in by what looks very similar to the seatpost bolt that the Lotus uses too, but the seat stays and top tube extending past the seat tube makes it much more unusual. Actually, it looks like several builders used the set screw in these aero frames. Tsunoda is another likely builder since it appears they made the lotus bikes? but again, I'm not finding a complete match to any of their frames online.

ipernity: 1981 Lotus (Tsunoda) Super Pro Aero - by Peter Kohler

Also, looking at the bottom bracket area, it looks like the tubes go from oval in the forward direction to oval in the side direction and then it's fully brazed, no lugs anywhere on the bike. A design for increased stiffness I would guess with the oval change of direction and then hopefully a clue in the maker with only fillet brazing.
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Old 10-29-20, 11:59 AM
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Are pictures not showing up for others here? I just tried to check the post to see if anyone had responded and I don't see my pictures in the OP. Could be a browser issue, but they showed up fine when I posted from my laptop yesterday and this morning.
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Old 10-29-20, 12:06 PM
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Well, I didn't want to share the ad, just to keep anyone from coming in and swooping in ahead of me in line. But I really am stumped on the bike. So here is what I was looking at later today:

https://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/b...221919405.html

The closest thing I have seen to it is from this Shimano AX ad, which appears to have a similar seat cluster, but there's just not much other info or pictures of these frames I could find:

THE FLYING WHEEL: Welcome to the Future..Shimano AX/Shogun Aero
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Old 10-29-20, 12:39 PM
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I'm seeing the pictures. I haven't seen that seat cluster on a Serotta, but I haven't seen it on anything else. Definitely interesting.
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Old 10-29-20, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K
I'm seeing the pictures. I haven't seen that seat cluster on a Serotta, but I haven't seen it on anything else. Definitely interesting.
Thanks for the confirmation on pics.

And it's an odd one for sure. I'm checking it out tonight and hoping to shed some light on what this actually is.
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Old 10-29-20, 02:00 PM
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You might also try asking on thepaceline.net. It used to be a Serotta-specific forum.

It doesn't look like there's any pantographing, which would be unusual for a Serotta, but the downtube and seat tube are tapered, which is a Serotta characteristic. Is it aluminum?
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Old 10-29-20, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K
You might also try asking on thepaceline.net. It used to be a Serotta-specific forum.

It doesn't look like there's any pantographing, which would be unusual for a Serotta, but the downtube and seat tube are tapered, which is a Serotta characteristic. Is it aluminum?
I'll know for sure tonight, I'm planning on bringing a magnet to confirm it's steel, then look under the BB for serial number or Serotta pantograph, Definitely bringing a front wheel to at least give it a test ride if nothing else. Debating on if I should bring headset wrenches to remove the stem and look on the steerer, I think that would also be a huge clue, because I'd see a serial number there for sure, and maybe some remnants of old paint. Then again, if I was selling a bike and someone started to pull it apart, I might object.

I'll also have to feel out the situation too. "roommate left it behind", while not completely unusual, is easy cover for a stolen bicycle.
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Old 10-29-20, 02:55 PM
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I will definitely post on thepaceline once I get my hands on it, I've got an account over there, but just don't go as often. I bet they would love to see a Serotta like this, if that is what this is...

But I'm going to wait until I see it myself first just so I don't get it sold from under me.
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Old 10-29-20, 03:01 PM
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Interesting. Let us know what happens. I'd be skeptical about the "left behind" element as well. Looking at all the junk in the background of the pics, it might just be a garbage/dumpster find. And is that stem too big for the bars?
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Old 10-29-20, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by robertorolfo
Interesting. Let us know what happens. I'd be skeptical about the "left behind" element as well. Looking at all the junk in the background of the pics, it might just be a garbage/dumpster find. And is that stem too big for the bars?
I will do my best, haha. It's been hobbled together for sure. I am a little worried about what's happening at the seat cluster with a possible second set screw higher up in the seatpost with some kind of spacer?? Plenty of questions for sure.

Oh and I'm about 95% sure it is steel, just from looking at what appears to be rust where the frame has scrapes. Still bringing a magnet though.
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Old 10-29-20, 04:34 PM
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Is that fork crown pantograhped with the "S"? I see yellow on the fork crown.
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Old 10-29-20, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Velo Mule
Is that fork crown pantograhped with the "S"? I see yellow on the fork crown.
That is the hard part to tell in the pictures, it's a Serotta S for sure, and if it's pantographed, then that's a very positive clue this could be a genuine Serotta, but if it was just part of a replacement decal set and placed on there, then I'm lost again.

If it's not repainted and re decaled, my theory right now is that Serotta built this in the early 80's but it must have been a custom or one off. And if it's just a repaint with Serotta decals (the first set of decals on eBay I see are these), then it's more of a mystery and I'll need to do more research.

I would also try reaching out to Serotta, but at this point I would probably be wasting their time chasing tails.
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Old 10-29-20, 06:20 PM
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I am not seeing the "Made in USA" shield shaped decal that goes on the bottom of the seat tube or the Serotta label that is usually in the middle of the seat tube or the tubing decal that goes on the top of the seat tube. It does have the Serotta decals in the right places though.

It is also interesting that this has been converted to a fixie. If I had a Serotta (still), no way would I be changing it to a fix/ss. But there is no accounting for other peoples tastes or values. That yellow "S" that I see on the semi sloping fork crown leads me to believe that it is a Serotta, but other things leads me to believe that it is not.

Aero frames were all the rage at one time. It is possible that Sir Ben tried an something different than usual, but man, I don't know about this one. It could have been a custom. The paint looks like imron too.

I know he and his shop did fillet brazing. I know they did customs. They did mountain bikes. This has the top tube that ovals horizontally extends past the seat tube to form the seat tube cluster. The down tube looks like it ovals vertically and then horizontally to meet the bottom bracket. I did some looking around the internet and there is a Serotta mountain bike with a top tube that morphs into a rear rack. Could this have been a similar idea for Ben to form this seat cluster.

So, this is an odd one. And then there's the friend that left it behind??? A Serotta?? A possible Serotta custom???

I'm leaning towards "it is a Serotta", but fell into the wrong hands.

I think there is only one way to tell and even that may still be difficult. Please let us know what you find. This is intriguing.
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Old 10-29-20, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Velo Mule
I am not seeing the "Made in USA" shield shaped decal that goes on the bottom of the seat tube or the Serotta label that is usually in the middle of the seat tube or the tubing decal that goes on the top of the seat tube. It does have the Serotta decals in the right places though.

It is also interesting that this has been converted to a fixie. If I had a Serotta (still), no way would I be changing it to a fix/ss. But there is no accounting for other peoples tastes or values. That yellow "S" that I see on the semi sloping fork crown leads me to believe that it is a Serotta, but other things leads me to believe that it is not.

Aero frames were all the rage at one time. It is possible that Sir Ben tried an something different than usual, but man, I don't know about this one. It could have been a custom. The paint looks like imron too.

I know he and his shop did fillet brazing. I know they did customs. They did mountain bikes. This has the top tube that ovals horizontally extends past the seat tube to form the seat tube cluster. The down tube looks like it ovals vertically and then horizontally to meet the bottom bracket. I did some looking around the internet and there is a Serotta mountain bike with a top tube that morphs into a rear rack. Could this have been a similar idea for Ben to form this seat cluster.

So, this is an odd one. And then there's the friend that left it behind??? A Serotta?? A possible Serotta custom???

I'm leaning towards "it is a Serotta", but fell into the wrong hands.

I think there is only one way to tell and even that may still be difficult. Please let us know what you find. This is intriguing.
Well you are certainly not alone, I think we are both quite intrigued. The shield decal at the bottom bracket looks like it is there, but damaged with almost nothing remaining, if you look in the picture with the chainring.

I'm heading out soon to go take a look, I'll definitely report back and with pictures. If I do end up picking it up, I'll be able to do a much deeper dive. If I pass, I'll at least be able to tell anyone here some of my findings.

Thanks to all who have responded so far, I appreciate the extra sets of eyes on it.
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Old 10-29-20, 10:48 PM
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Well, for better or worse, it's all mine now. I'll post some pictures of it tomorrow when there is daylight.

The fork crown S is engraved, so I have a genuine Serotta fork if nothing else, . The seatpost is an aero post, so that is good, but I do think there should be a grommet there because there's a bit of a gap. The small screw near the top of the seat tube appears to be stock as there's a spring on it and it holds that little wedge piece that dips down into the frame and appears to be there to keep the seatpost from getting too heavily indented when the set screws are tightened. Yes, I did say set screws plural, There is the one obvious one and then another that is essentially at the end of the top tube extension.

Like we already saw, there's no lugs throughout, fully brazed frame. I looked for a serial number everywhere and I do not see one, any clues on where I may find one? I took off the fork and looked on the steerer tube and didn't see one there either but I was expecting a pretty obvious stamped number and didn't clean it super well to see if I may spot a lightly stamped number.

Components wise, a very interesting mix.
Specialized bars and water bottle cages.
3TTT stem (that isn't a spacer, it's a cover where it hinges i believe.
Aero seat post, Shimano for sure, but not 100% the model,
Dia Compe levers? the hoods say that at least
Dura Ace 7400 Brake calipers
105 headset and 105 crankset, unsure on bottom bracket for now.
Campagnolo hubs (I'm not great at model numbers here) and I know a Mavic Module E2 rear wheel but unsure on the front, probably also a mavic but missing label i think possibly mismatched.
Selle Italia Future saddle
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Old 10-29-20, 11:03 PM
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Forgot to mention, As we suspected, the frame is completely steel. The rear dropout is Shimano, though you can barely read it from all the scratches from tightening the singlespeed, I would guess.

Also, the seller, J, was an awesome guy. Drives a VW bus, builds and rides vintage BMW motorcycles. Was super nice, said the bike had attracted a decent amount of attention in the 1 day it's posted. I was telling him about how I was trying to research it online myself, was having trouble and how the bike was pretty unusual. The friend he got it from was also a VW bus traveller who had headed south for a trip and was unloading what he had so he bought it from him.
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Old 10-30-20, 08:09 AM
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Now that it is save, in good hands, you can ask the Serotta experts. I am interested.

I remember around 1981 or so, I went to the bike show in New York City and Aero was the big thing. Every bike company and frame builder was showing an aero inspired bike. And of course, Shimano went big time on Aero. I remember those Aero water bottles. Aero crank sets were being introduce by manufacturers beyond Shimano.

So, perhaps in this time of the first Aero wave, this aero frame was made by Serotta. Perhaps for a show. Perhaps for a customer.

Let us know what you learn.
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Old 10-30-20, 09:16 AM
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Cool story and an even cooler find. Sounds like you got something pretty special, and there is probably some Serotta nut out there that would die for it (not that you should take advantage of anyone's "condition")

Originally Posted by habes78023
Also, the seller, J, was an awesome guy. Drives a VW bus, builds and rides vintage BMW motorcycles... The friend he got it from was also a VW bus traveller who had headed south for a trip and was unloading what he had so he bought it from him.
Sounds like a strange mashup of characters from "Into the Wild" and "... the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance."
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Old 10-30-20, 09:50 AM
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Have you posted this on the Paceline Forum? Lots of Serotta fans on there.
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Old 10-30-20, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by majmt
Have you posted this on the Paceline Forum? Lots of Serotta fans on there.
I finally got some time to take pictures and I'll be posting over there momentarily. I'm hoping that someone there might have an idea about the bike or remember seeing something about it.
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Old 10-30-20, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by robertorolfo
Cool story and an even cooler find. Sounds like you got something pretty special, and there is probably some Serotta nut out there that would die for it (not that you should take advantage of anyone's "condition")

Sounds like a strange mashup of characters from "Into the Wild" and "... the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance."
Haha, I guess we will see. I don't intend to take advantage of anyone's condition .

I just like finding bikes, getting them back on the road, and getting to try out different stuff, which I've been pretty fortunate to have found several awesome bikes (Tommasini Diamante, Panasonic Team America, Bob Jackson 753, Eddy Merckx Corsa, Hans Schneider countless others). I won't pretend like I'm going to be the final owner for this one, I think it's probably a little too special for me... there probably is someone who would have a much stronger connection to it. I would bet there's probably someone with a stash of Dura Ace AX components that could use a frame like this.

He really couldn't have been nicer. I could see him end up getting into vintage bicycles at some point. He was a younger guy like myself.
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Old 10-30-20, 05:05 PM
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https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=260445

The Paceline thread is now live. First few commenters do also believe it is a Serotta. So that is encouraging.

Some negative condition updates: the bottom bracket has brazed on cable guides, but one appears to have been cut off entirely then filed to groove for the rear cable, then one of the front guides looks to have been smashed down pretty hard. Not sure how that would have happened. There's also one small dent on the top tube just before the first rear brake guide on the driveside, which I found when I was cleaning it off from all the dust and cobwebs.

Here are some more pictures for this thread.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/4t54kri8AdNV4Tf9A





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Old 10-30-20, 05:31 PM
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@habes78023 Nice score! Fellow Seattle-ite here. $260 for a complete bike is a good deal, but something special like this is a no-brainer at that price. All this chatter of aero bikes and the early 80's aero craze (what's old is new again, eh?) makes me think maybe this was a one-off show bike. There are lots of examples of these AX seatposts that use set screws, but nothing in google image search with a seat cluster like this. This is a big assumption, but that would make me think custom instead of production.

The remains of that sticker on the bottom of the seat tube could be a good clue. It looks American flag-esque. Maybe someone here knows if Serotta used a decal like that.

Were there any other marks on the steerer? Pencil, pen, paint pen, tubing logo or otherwise?

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Old 10-30-20, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by tricky
@habes78023 Nice score! Fellow Seattle-ite here. $260 for a complete bike is a good deal, but something special like this is a no-brainer at that price. All this chatter of aero bikes and the early 80's aero craze (what's old is new again, eh?) makes me think maybe this was a one-off show bike. There are lots of examples of these AX seatposts that use set screws, but nothing in google image search with a seat cluster like this. This is a big assumption, but that would make me think custom instead of production.

The remains of that sticker on the bottom of the seat tube could be a good clue. It looks American flag-esque. Maybe someone here knows if Serotta used a decal like that.

Were there any other marks on the steerer? Pencil, pen, paint pen, tubing logo or otherwise?
Thanks! I think it's worth the price of admission, if nothing else, I'm learning a lot about Serotta now. I will be putting some miles on it around here, once I can get some shifters for it and some gears, 56/20 is not going to get me up any hills where I live, haha.

The sticker at the bottom looks like the american made decal that serotta used, and the decals do seem to match up to an early 80's bike. The one on the seattube is basically gone, but looks like one that had the yellow border around the Serotta name.
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