Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Identify this Benotto

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Identify this Benotto

Old 07-21-21, 07:07 AM
  #1  
benoize
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 9

Bikes: Rossin, Benotto 900, Benotto ?, Pinarello

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Identify this Benotto

Hi all,

I need some information about a certain Benotto. All I know is this:
It has Shimano Sport LX derailleur, Shimano exage brakes and a biopace chain ring. It has internal brake cable routing in the top bar.
Further more it has capital "B" on the rear brake bracket and a Columbus decal on the top bar. I have a picture of the bike but apparently I am not allowed to post pictures until I have posted 10 threads. So if anyone would want to go through the trouble and pm me I can send you a picture.

Any insight would/help really be appreciated!
Thnx
Benoize
benoize is offline  
Old 07-21-21, 07:24 AM
  #2  
oneclick 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 2,887
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1103 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,309 Times in 773 Posts
Originally Posted by benoize
Hi all,

I need some information about a certain Benotto.
So will we. Post pics to your gallery, somone else will copy them here, that'll help.

Pic of bottom of BB shell please, also if there is a decal saying modello or modelo (important difference); pic of rear dropout including over or under (another difference) cable stop, pic of seatstay & lug, can you measure the seatpost?
oneclick is offline  
Old 07-21-21, 07:34 AM
  #3  
benoize
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 9

Bikes: Rossin, Benotto 900, Benotto ?, Pinarello

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by oneclick
So will we. Post pics to your gallery, somone else will copy them here, that'll help.

Pic of bottom of BB shell please, also if there is a decal saying modello or modelo (important difference); pic of rear dropout including over or under (another difference) cable stop, pic of seatstay & lug, can you measure the seatpost?
Hi, Thanks for the response. I'm off to have a look at the bike in a couple of hours and I only have this one picture to go on (which makes it a bit of adventure). So if I buy the bike I can post some more detailed pictures and info on this thread. When you ask about the seat post measurement, I gather you are talking about the diameter?

I'll get back to you. For now let me see if I can post in my gallery...
Cheers
Benoize
benoize is offline  
Old 07-21-21, 07:47 AM
  #4  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,233
Mentioned: 652 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4719 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3,034 Times in 1,874 Posts
Welcome to the forums. Shimano Sport LX would place it 1988-1989 and upper entry level but the frame appears to be significantly higher grade than the components, indicating a rebuild. It has pre-1988 Columbus decals but due to the low image resolution I can't identify tubing decal on the top tube. However, given the extensive chrome, front derailleur hanger, internal brake cable routing, it would appear to be at least SL tubing and possibly SLX. Given, the dual bottle set-up and pump peg and graphics, I'd place it 1986-1987, possibly later if they had excess Columbus decal stock. The one curious item, is the presence of Gipiemme dropouts, which I don't recall seeing on a Benotto. Photo assist...
T-Mar is offline  
Likes For T-Mar:
Old 07-21-21, 07:55 AM
  #5  
juvela
Senior Member
 
juvela's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 14,319
Mentioned: 414 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3780 Post(s)
Liked 3,284 Times in 2,145 Posts
Originally Posted by T-Mar
Welcome to the forums. Shimano Sport LX would place it 1988-1989 and upper entry level but the frame appears to be significantly higher grade than the components, indicating a rebuild. It has pre-1988 Columbus decals but due to the low image resolution I can't identify tubing decal on the top tube. However, given the extensive chrome, front derailleur hanger, internal brake cable routing, it would appear to be at least SL tubing and possibly SLX. Given, the dual bottle set-up and pump peg and graphics, I'd place it 1986-1987, possibly later if they had excess Columbus decal stock. The one curious item, is the presence of Gipiemme dropouts, which I don't recall seeing on a Benotto. Photo assist...
-----



T-Mar's post reminds me of the amount of information Sherlock Holmes was able to gain by examining a speck of tobacco ash


-----
juvela is offline  
Likes For juvela:
Old 07-21-21, 07:58 AM
  #6  
benoize
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 9

Bikes: Rossin, Benotto 900, Benotto ?, Pinarello

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by T-Mar
Welcome to the forums. Shimano Sport LX would place it 1988-1989 and upper entry level but the frame appears to be significantly higher grade than the components, indicating a rebuild. It has pre-1988 Columbus decals but due to the low image resolution I can't identify tubing decal on the top tube. However, given the extensive chrome, front derailleur hanger, internal brake cable routing, it would appear to be at least SL tubing and possibly SLX. Given, the dual bottle set-up and pump peg and graphics, I'd place it 1986-1987, possibly later if they had excess Columbus decal stock. The one curious item, is the presence of Gipiemme dropouts, which I don't recall seeing on a Benotto. Photo assist...
Wow! Just WOW...
All this from just this one picture?
Would you hazard a guess as to the model number?

Thanks much!
benoize is offline  
Old 07-21-21, 07:59 AM
  #7  
benoize
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 9

Bikes: Rossin, Benotto 900, Benotto ?, Pinarello

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Amazing!
benoize is offline  
Old 07-21-21, 08:11 AM
  #8  
oneclick 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 2,887
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1103 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,309 Times in 773 Posts
Originally Posted by benoize
Hi, Thanks for the response. I'm off to have a look at the bike in a couple of hours and I only have this one picture to go on (which makes it a bit of adventure). So if I buy the bike I can post some more detailed pictures and info on this thread. When you ask about the seat post measurement, I gather you are talking about the diameter?

I'll get back to you. For now let me see if I can post in my gallery...
Cheers
Benoize
Ok, before you decide to buy you need to know about the (in)famous Benotto cracking issue. They started building frames in a new factory in Mexico and after a while a lot of them developed cracks in the seattube-bbshell area. The bikes that could be affected are (reportedly) anything made in Mexico other than the lowest-tier models (up to and including the 800 "dilletante" and 850 "Paris-Roubaix"), which are made from high-tensile steel that did not suffer from the overheating which it is claimed was too much for the thinner-tubed bikes, and the 3000 which was only made in Italy.

Modelo is spanish, modello is italian.
Some bikes have an "I" stamped into the BB shell which it is claimed means italian manufacture.
BB shell can have a heart-shaped cutout, and pic on the net show BBs stamped with that "I" have a bar across the heart.
Italian bikes can have a decal that says "Made in Italy".

I would not take a potential-crack-Benotto frame if you gave me it; but an 800/850, or an Italian - yes please.
oneclick is offline  
Likes For oneclick:
Old 07-21-21, 08:13 AM
  #9  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,233
Mentioned: 652 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4719 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3,034 Times in 1,874 Posts
Originally Posted by benoize
Wow! Just WOW...
All this from just this one picture?
Would you hazard a guess as to the model number?

Thanks much!
The Columbus SL model of this era was generally called the Benotto 3000, while the Columbus SLX model was typically the Benotto 3500. However, I have seen different model numbers for the SL bicycles, depending on the factory installed component group. So, what exactly does it say on the Columbus decal?
T-Mar is offline  
Likes For T-Mar:
Old 07-22-21, 08:29 AM
  #10  
benoize
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 9

Bikes: Rossin, Benotto 900, Benotto ?, Pinarello

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by T-Mar
Welcome to the forums. Shimano Sport LX would place it 1988-1989 and upper entry level but the frame appears to be significantly higher grade than the components, indicating a rebuild. It has pre-1988 Columbus decals but due to the low image resolution I can't identify tubing decal on the top tube. However, given the extensive chrome, front derailleur hanger, internal brake cable routing, it would appear to be at least SL tubing and possibly SLX. Given, the dual bottle set-up and pump peg and graphics, I'd place it 1986-1987, possibly later if they had excess Columbus decal stock. The one curious item, is the presence of Gipiemme dropouts, which I don't recall seeing on a Benotto. Photo assist...
So, in the meantime I have the bike and have posted a lot pictures to the gallery in the album marked Mystery Benotto. I think I can safely say it's an Italian bike:
  • It has the decals (Columbus Matrix =Cromor)
  • It has the bar across the hear with a capital I next to it
  • The seat post is (as far as I can measure it accurately) 27.2 mm in diameter.
So, some googling on Benotto Gipiemme resulted in a couple of bike (frames) with the name Benotto Oria Special, which I have never heard of. But with those the decals are different.

My main question now is, what would be the correct group set to put on this bike? Would it have had Gipiemme set? What would be the proper period correct stuff to install.
And is this an Oria special or something else?

Thanks again!
benoize is offline  
Old 07-22-21, 09:52 AM
  #11  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,233
Mentioned: 652 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4719 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3,034 Times in 1,874 Posts
I wasn't expecting Matrix, as the decal background in the original photo looked more gold than the silver used for Matrix. Matrix was a mid-range tubeset introduced for 1986 but was subject of a Trek lawsuit for infringement on their Matrix rims, so the name was changed to Cromor in 1987. However, it does corroborate the age and explains the Gipiemme dropouts, though the amount of chrome and, internal brake cable routing are unusual on a Matrix frame of this era.

I don't know what the proper name for this model. There's no Matrix or Cromor model listed in the 1987 North American market models. As for groups, there is a wide variety to choose from. Given the era and level, Campagnolo Triomphe, Campagnolo Victory, Galli Criterium, Ofmage Master, Shimano New 105, Shimano New 600EX, SunTour Cyclone or SunTour Sprint would all be appropriate.

Last edited by T-Mar; 07-22-21 at 10:03 AM.
T-Mar is offline  
Likes For T-Mar:
Old 07-22-21, 10:22 AM
  #12  
benoize
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 9

Bikes: Rossin, Benotto 900, Benotto ?, Pinarello

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by T-Mar
I wasn't expecting Matrix, as the decal background in the original photo looked more gold than the silver used for Matrix. Matrix was a mid-range tubeset introduced for 1986 but was subject of a Trek lawsuit for infringement on their Matrix rims, so the name was changed to Cromor in 1987. However, it does corroborate the age and explains the Gipiemme dropouts, though the amount of chrome and, internal brake cable routing are unusual on a Matrix frame of this era.

I don't know what the proper name for this model. There's no Matrix or Cromor model listed in the 1987 North American market models. As for groups, there is a wide variety to choose from. Given the era and level, Campagnolo Triomphe, Campagnolo Victory, Galli Criterium, Ofmage Master, Shimano New 105, Shimano New 600EX, SunTour Cyclone or SunTour Sprint would all be appropriate.
Hi T-mar, thanks again for your swift reply. I think Cromor is pretty much the same as SL except for the down tube an chain- and seat stay being 1mm thicker. But then Cromor was used for bigger frames and SL used for the smaller frames (I think that was the differentiation).
I came across this table on equusbicycle. It's called columbuschart (I can't post URLs *sigh*)
As for the group set it looks like I have a lot of choices, so I can go on the hunt for a nice set! Looking forward to fixing it up. Will post pics!
benoize is offline  
Old 07-22-21, 12:45 PM
  #13  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,233
Mentioned: 652 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4719 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3,034 Times in 1,874 Posts
Originally Posted by benoize
Hi T-mar, thanks again for your swift reply. I think Cromor is pretty much the same as SL except for the down tube an chain- and seat stay being 1mm thicker. But then Cromor was used for bigger frames and SL used for the smaller frames (I think that was the differentiation).
I came across this table on equusbicycle. It's called columbuschart (I can't post URLs *sigh*)
As for the group set it looks like I have a lot of choices, so I can go on the hunt for a nice set! Looking forward to fixing it up. Will post pics!
Matrix/Cromor pretty much split the difference between SL and SP. It used an SL gauge seat tube and fork blades, with an SP gauge down tube. The top tube had SL gauge butts with an SP gauge centre section, while stays were thicker than SL but thinner than SP. This resulted in tubeset that was heavier and stiffer than SL but lighter and less stiff than SP. It wasn't optimized for a light professional rider like SL or a heavier professional rider like SP. However, what really set Matrix/Cromor apart and relegated it to mid-range was the welded billet construction which significantly reduced the cost over the seamless SL and SP tubesets. As a result, Matrix/Cromor found it's niche as a general purpose, mid-range tubeset for for sport riders. The difference would become even greater towards the end of 1987 when SL, SP and the other higher grade Columbus tubesets received an upgrade to the stronger and more exotic Cyclex alloy.
T-Mar is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.