gsulit@shaw.ca

I just purchase this 52 cm Colnago "Mexico" on eBay. The seller says that he got it from a collector and it is a "Mexico" built in 1979. In my reserach, the Mexico has rounded top tube and downtube but the Nuovo Mexico has the Gilco tubing ( a round tube that featured four distinct symmetrical flutes through the central section of the tube and resembled a 4-sided star ). But the supposedly, "The Colnago Nuovo Mexico was released approximately 1983 and available for only a few short years". On the photos, it looked like Gilco tubing pointing to Nuovo Mexico. Are the two names "Mexico" and "Nuovo Mexico" loosely used and interchanged? Any thoughts on anything about this? Also what do you think of the condition of this frame? I want to leave it as is and maybe do some cleaning ( any advice on that as well? ). Any other thoughts on this? Id love to hear anything that anybody want to say. I am pretty excited about it. Thanks.

Erzulis Boat 

Unless my eyes deceive me, that looks like round tubes to me. I have a Gilco, and its pretty pronounced.

Mackers

Put it on a scale and all your questions will be answered.

The Mexico is much lighter than the Nuovo Mexico which is basically a Super with crimped tubing.

Lattz

As far as I know, for the "Mexico or not" question, the deciding factor is usually the inner side of the chain stays. Mexico and Nuovo Mexico did not have crimps, Super had them.
Since later also Super had crimped tubes with various numbers of crimps, this should be the way to say A or B. I wonder if that fork is original for the frame though.... as I have seen early non-crimped Mexicos with flat crown forks, but those didn't have panto seat stay caps and those which had, had sloping crowns. Although it is also not a fool proof guess, just an observation.

But it is a nice looking frame anyhow, and if it fits you well, a good one for sure.

Lattz

Mackers

It's just a Super.

Just saw the Ebay ad and it says weight is 1860 grams for the frame alone.

bikemike73 

Looks like an early 80s Super to me.

Nice frame !!!!!!

Congrats !!

Mackers

If I paid Mexico money for a Super I'd be sending that back.

CO_Hoya 

Link to original eBay listing: link

Steel Charlie

Does it have "Mexico" stamped on the right chainstay or just "Colnago"? The Mexico I had and the one my brother had both were stamped Mexico

Drillium Dude 

The seller doesn't mention 'Nuovo Mexico', so I'm unsure why the OP is bringing a later-model name into the picture. The photos from the auction clearly show all the tubing is round, before the advent of Colnago's shaped/crimped tubing-equipped frames.

This frame could either be a Super or Mexico from around '79 to '82. Plenty of detail cues here, but some seem to overlap. One biggie that says it is not a Nuovo Mexico for sure is the lack of a FD braze-on. Anyway, the only real difference at the time was Mexicos used Columbus Record tubing and Supers used Columbus SL. Checking historical weight data against what your frame actually weighs will tell you if it's a Super or Mexico - tho if it were a Mexico, I'd expect chromed headlugs. They weren't exclusive to Mexicos, as some Supers got them, too, but they're much more common on Mexicos.

To give an educated guess, it appears more like a Super than a Mexico, but closer to '82 going by the flat surface of the Colnago-engraved seat stay caps.

DD

Drillium Dude 

It won't have 'Mexico' stamped on either chainstay because Colnago didn't stamp that word on the stays, ever. They did use a decal which denoted either Super or Mexico, but never a stamping. The stamping has always been simply 'Colnago' and is stamped on both chainstays. The location changed when it was realized the last two letters were obscured by the large chainring. My understanding is that the stampings were moved a bit further aft on the chainstays on subsequent models (like the Master) to correct this aesthetic faux pas.

DD

gsulit@shaw.ca

The frame is on its way and there is no returns on it. I messaged the seller about the concerns that I have learned here and will see what the frame looks like when it gets here. The photos are still not 100% conclusive ( giving the benefit of the doubt ). How much would you think it is worth if its a Super and not a Mexico. Thanks.

Drillium Dude 

It's original, in pretty good shape, with good chrome. It appears you got it for less than 800USD so that's good. Personally, at this level and at this vintage, I doubt there will be a discernible difference between the frames when built up. Perhaps a Mexico could be worth an extra 50 - 100USD on top of whatever one pays for a Super in similar condition.

FWIW, after reading the seller's description, I don't think he is or was trying to pull a fast one. Likely going with what he was told, possibly passed erroneous info by somebody mis-recalling details; that's already occurred right here in this thread. Colnagos of this era can be notoriously difficult to identify with 100% accuracy, and many other Italian builders did the same.

DD

Mackers

Mexicos are much rarer than Supers, I'd pay really good money for a bona fide Mexico.

Mackers

I'd think there would be a couple of reasons to claim an "Item not as described" return.

It's not a Mexico and it's not a '79, with that under the bottom bracket cable routing and the hour glass chain stay bridge.

Kabuki12

Either way , it will build into a nice bike. I do think it should have been better represented as far as verification , due to the difference in value but still, it’s a nice frame from what I can see. I don’t know enough about the differences to tell exactly what you have but the Super is no slouch.

gsulit@shaw.ca

I read somewhere that 80% of Mexico on eBay is actually Super. Surviving early Mexicos are rare because the frame is so thin that they break easily due to corrosion and trauma during falls.
Here is another one advertised as a Mexico and this one has the same cable routing below the bottom bracket and the chainstay bridge being an hour glass shape.

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/393562194800...3ABFBM_NO1k5Bh

icemilkcoffee 

The Ebay listing sounded pretty cut and dry to me. If he was passing along what he was told, he should have said something like "I have been told that this is a Mexico frame, however there is no definitive proof so please do your own homework"

Just like those listings that say "I've been told by the previous owner that the engine was rebuilt, but he didn't have the receipts" ; " I've been told that this guitar once belonged to Dave Grohl but I have no way of proving that"

Mackers

Frame weight is typical for SL tubing, even a little heavy taking into account the small size.

By the time the hour glass shaped bridge was used Colnago had moved on to the Nuovo Mexico.

SJX426 

Example of a Colnag
Drivetrain on Flickr

spudly

Below is a picture of my circa 1978 Mexico. Fluted seat stays, no crimping in the chain stays and the frame (alone) weighs around 1650 grams and the fork around 700. Mine has the kind of cheesy mylar/foil chainstay "protector" while yours has the nice chroming, but even so yours is heavy to be a Mexico as Mackers pointed out. I don't know exactly when Colnago got rid of the foil protector, but I believe repechage stated in a post that Ernesto changed it when told it looked cheap. My early 80's (81, 82?) Superissimo still has this foil, but has the under BB routing and pantographed seat stay ends, as well as the slight crimping on the inside of the chain stays (pics of it also attached). It also has a flat fork crown (somewhat uncommon for Superissimos), whereas one of roughly the same vintage I had before had a sloping crown.

I think your frame, with original paint/decals and nice chrome looks great and should ride very well (and infinitely better than the Colnago Sport you were looking at!). Also, as you mentioned, a Super will be more durable, especially if you're heavier and/or riding over rough terrain. But the Mexicos are rarer and thus likely somewhat more valued. Accordingly, if it were me, I'd approach the seller about providing a little compensation.

gsulit@shaw.ca

My Colnago frame and fork weighs 220 grams more than yours. If my frame and fork has the original paint and no major problems, I'd be happy with it. I paid $600 for it and I probably will not ask the guy some compensation back. He sounded very nice and very honest and sincere. He probably was misinformed also and maybe the ones who told him did not know either. In any case, I am happy to own a Colnago in Saronni red in original condition. Thank you all.

Bad Lag

[QUOTE=gsulit@shaw.ca;22710359]Any thoughts on anything about this? Also what do you think of the condition of this frame? I want to leave it as is and maybe do some cleaning ( any advice on that as well? ). Any other thoughts on this? Id love to hear anything that anybody want to say. I am pretty excited about it. Thanks.

I'll tell you what I think.

You have an awesome frame there. Build it up with period correct Campagnolo components and enjoy the heck out of it!

I'm lovin' the wide "stance" of that fork crown in the pics.

The color could not be better. Red bikes go faster, you know. I would clean and wax not repaint.

I would do any small touch-ups as needed to protect and preserve the steel (trust me on this). Be sure they are careful, well-executed touch-ups. 20 or 30 years from now you can thank me.

spudly

I agree with D Dude that the seller didn't seem to intentionally be misleading. And you will have a very nice original paint/chrome/decals Colnago in a pretty (and perhaps the most desirable) color, at, IMO, a very reasonable price. I recommended seeking some compensation if you were really bummed about it not being a Mexico and if you paid close to the asked $800.

Anyway, enjoy it and please keep the forum updated on the bike and post some pics when you get it built up!

gsulit@shaw.ca

I finally got the frame 2 days ago, Jan 23 ( shipped from Croatia Nov. 8 ). It was delayed through the Christmas holidays and some issue with Canada Customs. Anyway, I weighed the frame and fork and they weigh 2540 grams ( the seller says 2570 grams ). It's in good shape, no dents, some scratches, scuffs and paint peeling here and there, but overall in good used condition. The seller of course says it is a Mexico but just about most of the responses here is that it is a Super. The frame is actually a 54 cm C-T.


According to the chart below, a 57cm Super frame and fork weighs 5 lbs, 15 oz ( 2693 grams ) and the 58 cm Mexico weighs 5 lbs, 9.5 oz. ( 2537 grams ). My 54 cm rame and fork weighs 2540 grams. The frame has these characteristics on it: cable guides bellow the bottom bracket, chrome fork is square at the top and has the clover with the word "Colnago" below it, there is a clover cutout below the bottom bracket, seat stay braze on is flat and has the word "Colnago" on it, there is a "clover" mark on the bottom headtube lug but none on the top, the chain stay bridge is an hourglass shape. There word "Colnago" is engraved on the outside of the chain stay, THERE IS NO CRIMP on the inside and outside of the of the chain stays.


A lot of things point out to it being a Super. The one feature that points to it being a Mexico is no crimps on the chain stays plus the weight 2540 grams although this is in 54 cm as opposed to the 2537 weight on a 58 cm Mexico.


I am happy either way and I know that I should just enjoy the bike and I will for sure. Part of me wants it to be a Mexico because of its rarity but part of me does not mind a Super as the tubings are thicker and less likely to break or rust through. And who really cares about some few hundred grams anyway? But it's nice to know. What do you guys think?