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Dunelt Fleur-De-Lys Information?

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Dunelt Fleur-De-Lys Information?

Old 10-20-21, 10:32 PM
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Dunelt Fleur-De-Lys Information?

Hello,

Just picked this bike up and really enjoy it however I don’t have a clue what I have. I’m pretty knowledgeable on Italian bikes 1970s and onward but nothing such as this. Everything seems to be original except tires and rear derailleur. This would be the oldest bike I’ve ever owned.

Ive looked around and I found a couple old forums asking the same questions but maybe there’s some new discoveries that I might be able to learn.

(curious what the beer opener tab “thing” is on the fork. Old reflector? Also why the rear hub has a single cog on the other side?”







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Old 10-21-21, 01:25 AM
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I have one just like yours. They don't come up often at all. Dunelt is best known for the many three speed bikes they produced. The Fleur de Lys is a better quality bike with butted 531 frame tubes. Like mine, yours has a rod actuated Cyclo Benelux front derailleur. The rear derailleur was Benelux also- yours has been swapped. Everything else looks original. My guess is it was produced in the late 50s. Warning: although the components don't look like anything special, you would pay dearly for correct replacements, so if you swap out any parts keep the originals. The bracket on the right fork blade is a lamp holder. The Resilion hub is set up with a freewheel on one side and fixed on the other. You could flip the wheel around and run fixed gear- at the risk of damaging the derailleur.

Edit: Just noticed your stem appears not inserted far enough. Not safe to ride like that, and could damage the fork steerer tube.
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Old 10-21-21, 08:06 AM
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A great looking machine, that one is!
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Old 10-21-21, 09:02 AM
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Thank you for that information. The stem definitely needs to be lowered and seat raised a bit. If it’s not too much to ask, would you send me a photo of the rear derailleur that is original? I’ve seen multiple listings and it may be hard to guess what would be correct on this model(if it matters).

If possible, I’d like to see yours if you have any photos. Compare and contrast is always nice to see what’s not supposed to be there.

The light bracket on the fork? Is there a brand specific light that would’ve came with bike?

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Old 10-21-21, 09:36 AM
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Details of mine in this thread. The correct derailleur is (I think) a Mk 7 model. Google will find pics of that for you. I have a Mk 8, not yet installed, but it is a newer model. I don't know if the bike came with a certain light or if that was not included. They did come with mud guards which were white Bluemels Club Special.

Here is more info courtesy Pete Kohler about half way down the page.

Does your serial number have an "NO" suffix?
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Old 10-21-21, 09:40 AM
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...there's a Wiki page on Dunelt here. By the time your bike was manufactured, all Dunelt branded bicycles were coming from TI Raleigh. Given it's componentry, it looks like the Dunelt branded equivalent of a Lenton Grand Prix from about 1957, maybe. Anyway, late 50's. Those front Benelux rod operated derailleurs went away in favor of cable operated ones after that. and they were not around all that long, before that all the Lentons were 3 speed IGH hubs.

I doubt the tubing is butted. Should be a straight gauge 531 frame, which is still a nice riding bicycle for the time period.

If you look at the long and somewhat detailed history of the Raleigh Lenton here, it will probably give you a few more clues about what you have. Interesting bicycle, thanks for posting photos.
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Old 10-21-21, 09:42 AM
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Old 10-21-21, 09:47 AM
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curious what the beer opener tab “thing” is on the fork. Old reflector?
...front lamp bracket. On the right side because of the way they set up the roads in the UK.
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Old 10-21-21, 10:39 AM
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Old 10-21-21, 10:50 AM
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I’d me tempted to build this as a 3 speed bike with an SA hub
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Old 10-21-21, 11:00 AM
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Wow! Takes me back a few years! No, I never had that bike but - my first bike ever was an English bike, coaster brake. It was well used in 1960, repainted to a no-decals green. My first geared bike (and its post-theft replacement) a new Dunelt 3-speed (both Raleigh black). My friends had the "real deal", full Raleighs with a number of small differences but my Dunelt was noticeably lighter! (And yes, we all knew that Dunelt was made by Raleigh; that is was their cheaper version.)

Edit: My dad had a Willis Jeep of roughly the same age as the OP's Dunelt. And like it, stick shift on the floo , 3 gears and a low range lever with two you had to reach further for. But unlike the Dunelt, the Willis had real climbing gears! Low range, third gear, foot to the floor - maybe 15 miles per hour.

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Old 10-21-21, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by bikemig
I’d me tempted to build this as a 3 speed bike with an SA hub
I'd go SA fix gear. OP, those 700c wheels? The brake pads are pushed all the way down and there is a lot of clearance over the tire front and rear, A sacrilege to some but that's how I would roll.
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Old 10-21-21, 11:44 AM
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Insidious C. Thank you for guiding me towards the right direction. I’ll have to take a look around Ebay. What I’m seeing as possible replacements scares my wallet. On the dropout there is a stamp on the drop out showing ‘212NO’ Early production?


3alarmer I’m curious on my drive train then. The bottom bracket shell does have two cable guides on both sides as well as an oil fill cap. Was this drivetrain the cheaper alternative back in the day? I take it they mass produced the same shell and then worried about what the customer wanted installed later.
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Old 10-21-21, 11:50 AM
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79pmooney Ill probably still be slower than your dads Jeep on this thing! I’ll be lucky enough to pull 14 mph even with good wind. Lol

And when you mean cheaper version, was this them just trying to wash out Dunelt out of their company. I figured Reynolds 531 tubing and the beautiful accents at all the seams looked fairly expensive to me because I’ve seen some
hideous looking Raleighs!

bikemig I couldn’t tell you where I’ll start with this. Im not too sure if I want to make it an urban commuter or something a little more touring oriented. 79pmooney These are 27” tires but luckily the market is bringing these tires back. I may be able to source some wider tires with the amount of clearance I have here.
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Old 10-21-21, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Yelbom15


3alarmer I’m curious on my drive train then. The bottom bracket shell does have two cable guides on both sides as well as an oil fill cap. Was this drivetrain the cheaper alternative back in the day? I take it they mass produced the same shell and then worried about what the customer wanted installed later.
...I honestly have no idea about cable guides on there. If they are present, and brazed in place, it might make your frame newer, and retrofitted with the current setup. Obviously, the rear derailleur is something cheap that has been fitted as a replacement. The guide on the right side, also obviously, is usable either as a guide for the current rear derailleur cable, or is also usable for a SA IGH. Not sure what's the story on the non drive side.But the fact that it has that Benelux DT shifter makes me think it came originally with a Benelux rear derailleur.
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Old 10-21-21, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Yelbom15
79pmooney Ill probably still be slower than your dads Jeep on this thing! I’ll be lucky enough to pull 14 mph even with good wind. Lol

And when you mean cheaper version, was this them just trying to wash out Dunelt out of their company. I figured Reynolds 531 tubing and the beautiful accents at all the seams looked fairly expensive to me because I’ve seen some
hideous looking Raleighs!

bikemig I couldn’t tell you where I’ll start with this. Im not too sure if I want to make it an urban commuter or something a little more touring oriented. 79pmooney These are 27” tires but luckily the market is bringing these tires back. I may be able to source some wider tires with the amount of clearance I have here.
My Dunelt was a 1965 3-speed. I believe Raleigh did with Dunelt what they did with Carleton; over time use them more and more as additional manufacturing capacity whereas in the early years after takeover Carleton at least was still their own shop with their own bikes. Your bike looks like an interesting bike. Doesn't say "Raleigh" to me at all. Mine looked like the Raleigh Roadster(? did I get that right?) until you started at details.
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Old 10-21-21, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney
Edit: My dad had a Willis Jeep of roughly the same age as the OP's Dunelt. And like it, stick shift on the floor , 3 gears and a low range lever with two you had to reach further for. But unlike the Dunelt, the Willis had real climbing gears! Low range, third gear, foot to the floor - maybe 15 miles per hour.
Those were transfer case levers. One engaged the front axle and the second shifted the transfer case into low/neutral/high. Low range should only be used in 1st & reverse so you didn't break things. Neutral was often used to run PTO driven equipment (pumps, generators, saws, etc.) with the vehicle remaining stationary. Those levers went away in the 70's when transfer cases started using a single lever with linkage to combine the 2. I miss my 67 Scout, small V8, 4 spd, posi F&R. Thing was a stump puller.

Staying on point lights could be battery like this one or generator run.

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Old 10-21-21, 05:26 PM
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This is not one of the Raleigh rebrands. It's a Birmingham bike and the Williams crank will have the date code, likely around '57 imo. Also, it's not double butted but plain gauge Reynolds.

OP, do the rims have any markings? They look like stainless.
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Old 10-21-21, 06:45 PM
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The cranks I can’t really make out. I see “48” and “49” which I take is the tooth count and what looks to be a rocket that shows EBW and of course the name Williams stamped. The rims states “Dunlop. Special Lightweight. Made in England”



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Old 10-21-21, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by clubman
This is not one of the Raleigh rebrands. It's a Birmingham bike and the Williams crank will have the date code, likely around '57 imo. Also, it's not double butted but plain gauge Reynolds.

OP, do the rims have any markings? They look like stainless.
...I assumed they were probably the 27: stainless Dunlop rims that were used on most of these. The "all authentic and original" guys apparently pay a lot for them on the used marketplace. I tried to ride mine for a while using them, and found them hopelessly slow wheels. They are much heavier than the alloy rims I used as replacements, and they have no bead hook. That was about as good as you could do in the late 50's, unless you went tubular. But you can so improve the ride and performance by replacing them with a 27" alloy wheel, with a bead hook and 27" Panaracer tyres, it wasn't at all difficult to let them go.

I agree that the TI Raleigh company was still making bikes in Birmingham, at the old Raynal facility, when this was probably made. Kind of a standard club bike of the times.
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Old 10-21-21, 07:00 PM
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...Williams is a pretty nice cottered crank of the time. I have one on a Carleton Catalina from about 1963. It will probably clean up nicely. See above for what I know about Dunlop stainless wheel rims. Don't toss them, but it's impossible to get a modern, higher pressure tyre to full inflation on them, without it blowing off the rim.

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Old 10-21-21, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Yelbom15
Insidious C. Thank you for guiding me towards the right direction. I’ll have to take a look around Ebay. What I’m seeing as possible replacements scares my wallet. On the dropout there is a stamp on the drop out showing ‘212NO’ Early production?


3alarmer I’m curious on my drive train then. The bottom bracket shell does have two cable guides on both sides as well as an oil fill cap. Was this drivetrain the cheaper alternative back in the day? I take it they mass produced the same shell and then worried about what the customer wanted installed later.
I asked about the "NO" s/n because I noticed an Armstrong posted by FTwelder and my FdL both have this. I think both brands belonged to TI at the time your bike was made. These may also have been built by Phillips, as Peter Kohler suggested.

There is mixed info about the tubing being butted or plain. My bike takes a 27.2 seatpost which suggests butted. If you know your seatpost diameter (without shim) please share.
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Old 10-21-21, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by clubman
This is not one of the Raleigh rebrands. It's a Birmingham bike and the Williams crank will have the date code, likely around '57 imo. Also, it's not double butted but plain gauge Reynolds.

OP, do the rims have any markings? They look like stainless.
Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...I assumed they were probably the 27: stainless Dunlop rims that were used on most of these. The "all authentic and original" guys apparently pay a lot for them on the used marketplace. I tried to ride mine for a while using them, and found them hopelessly slow wheels. They are much heavier than the alloy rims I used as replacements, and they have no bead hook. That was about as good as you could do in the late 50's, unless you went tubular. But you can so improve the ride and performance by replacing them with a 27" alloy wheel, with a bead hook and 27" Panaracer tyres, it wasn't at all difficult to let them go.

I agree that the TI Raleigh company was still making bikes in Birmingham, at the old Raynal facility, when this was probably made. Kind of a standard club bike of the times.
The Williams date code is 1960 which is the cusp of the Raleigh-Birmingham takeover. It's happened on many occasions that Birmingham-specific inventory was sold by Raleigh after that date. When the stock was gone, you would have seen England on the Dunelt badge and the rear mudguard eyelets would have been behind the axle and not above, as seen in the OP's frame. I've never seen those serrated shorelines on any Raleigh lugs. It was a transitional time for these bikes.

Once Raleigh had full control of inventory, they changed to this badge, from the Birmingham.



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Old 10-21-21, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...I assumed they were probably the 27: stainless Dunlop rims that were used on most of these. The "all authentic and original" guys apparently pay a lot for them on the used marketplace. I tried to ride mine for a while using them, and found them hopelessly slow wheels. They are much heavier than the alloy rims I used as replacements, and they have no bead hook. That was about as good as you could do in the late 50's, unless you went tubular. But you can so improve the ride and performance by replacing them with a 27" alloy wheel, with a bead hook and 27" Panaracer tyres, it wasn't at all difficult to let them go.

I agree that the TI Raleigh company was still making bikes in Birmingham, at the old Raynal facility, when this was probably made. Kind of a standard club bike of the times.
You're right about the Raynal factory...I had always assumed the transition took place close to 1960 when the rest of Birmingham was absorbed. Cool.
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Old 10-21-21, 07:36 PM
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clubman I agree and may have found that answer as well. Once rubbing away a crank, I believe I see a Raleigh logo on the non-drive side. It’s either a man on a horse/bike or something totally else but I do see a very distinctive R in the logo.

3alarmer I’ve heard good things about WillIams cranks. If anything, the highest end modern cranks such as White Industries or Phil take after the geometry a lot it looks like. Strange to see a small distinct stamp of Raleigh on the non-drive side crank(if that’s what it is). Maybe a small way to keep count of their productions without giving away the Dunelt legacy.

I also have to agree on the rims. I just finished 40 miles today on this bike and I’ve got to say the entire time I was looking down thinking I had a flat. Taking a turn felt terribly squirrelly to me but had me on my toes. I may look around for some old Mavic rims unless that sacrilegious. I’m open to any all suggestions.

Insidious C. I had a 27.2 seat post laying around. It fit but really tight so I didn’t bother causing more problems. It’s a real cheap one I yanked off an All-City frame I had laying around. May not be a 27.2 diameter.


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