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Garmin 1040 solar

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Garmin 1040 solar

Old 06-15-22, 05:50 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
It would make the data go directly from the Garmin to the internet without going through your phone on the way. I guess if you have Bluetooth issues that would be good since BT wouldn't be involved. In theory a little less drain on your phone battery and if you don't have an unlimited data plan there's that. But that's all more theoretical than practical, if live track works most people don't care how. This is for people who want to leave their phones behind.

For those changes, you need a data plan for your Garmin.
My question was does LTE require a SIM card to connect to a cellular network ?. Thats how Hammerhead has the Karoo 2 do data (if no WiFi available).
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Old 06-15-22, 08:03 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
My question was does LTE require a SIM card to connect to a cellular network ?. Thats how Hammerhead has the Karoo 2 do data (if no WiFi available).
It (meaning the 945LTE, here) has a built-in SIM that doesn't care what you use in your phone. It doesn't mean you go to Verizon and get a SIM for the watch; you enable it with Garmin and it works for the features they use it for.
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Old 06-15-22, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
My question was does LTE require a SIM card to connect to a cellular network ?. Thats how Hammerhead has the Karoo 2 do data (if no WiFi available).
​​​​​​Yes, but no. I mean there isn't a 1040 LTE, or any Edge LTE I think, so it's hypothetical. Because watches are so small Garmin has put a chip in that does the same thing as a sim card. It's basically the same thing you just don't physically put it in and take it out, and it can only use one specific data provider as result. But that's a workaround for not having a sim door in a watch people swim with. You can think of it as a sim card and basically be right.
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Old 06-15-22, 09:05 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug View Post
It (meaning the 945LTE, here) has a built-in SIM that doesn't care what you use in your phone. It doesn't mean you go to Verizon and get a SIM for the watch; you enable it with Garmin and it works for the features they use it for.
Hammerheads method is to add a SIM card of your choice, on whatever carrier you choose. You then enable the SIM on the device, it connects when its not using WIFI

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Old 06-16-22, 06:14 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
It would make the data go directly from the Garmin to the internet without going through your phone on the way. I guess if you have Bluetooth issues that would be good since BT wouldn't be involved. In theory a little less drain on your phone battery and if you don't have an unlimited data plan there's that. But that's all more theoretical than practical, if live track works most people don't care how. This is for people who want to leave their phones behind.

For those changes, you need a data plan for your Garmin.
Yeah, and there probably aren't many "reasonable" options for that data plan on the Garmin that I'm aware of. Google Fi can provide a data only SIM, but only if you're not on one of their Unlimited plans. When I was on Sprint, there was a (I think) $10 monthly charge for a data only SIM.
Plus, having a cell phone with me in the event of a mishap or emergency is why I have a phone that can go anywhere. Leaving it at home or in the car when riding seems to go against why I have it in the first place.
But different strokes for different folks. If someone wanted to pay more for connectivity and leave their phone behind, that's their call.
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Old 06-16-22, 06:15 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
​​​​​​Yes, but no. I mean there isn't a 1040 LTE, or any Edge LTE I think, so it's hypothetical. Because watches are so small Garmin has put a chip in that does the same thing as a sim card. It's basically the same thing you just don't physically put it in and take it out, and it can only use one specific data provider as result. But that's a workaround for not having a sim door in a watch people swim with. You can think of it as a sim card and basically be right.
There's also the complication that an eSim isn't compatible with all carriers/providers.
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Old 06-16-22, 07:35 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
Hammerheads method is to add a SIM card of your choice, on whatever carrier you choose. You then enable the SIM on the device, it connects when its not using WIFI
Yes, and I was explaining the Garmin approach, which is exactly what I want but seems to cause much confusion.
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Old 06-16-22, 07:39 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
It would make the data go directly from the Garmin to the internet without going through your phone on the way. I guess if you have Bluetooth issues that would be good since BT wouldn't be involved. In theory a little less drain on your phone battery and if you don't have an unlimited data plan there's that. But that's all more theoretical than practical, if live track works most people don't care how. This is for people who want to leave their phones behind.

I suspect there is a larger proportion of runners who don’t want to carry phones. They are generally out for shorter periods and having a phone in a pocket (or whatever) is going to be more annoying.

For those changes, you need a data plan for your Garmin.
LTE doesn’t seem to have much use beyond live tracking (and incident detection).

Sure, it might save a little bit of phone battery but at the likely cost of significantly higher battery use in the head unit.

How many people would want to pay $7/month for it?

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2021/06/...explainer.html


It could let the device get texts but those would have to be sent to another number.

Having LTE doesn’t let the head unit replace the phone. So, many more people are likely to also be carrying a phone anyway. There are likely many more of these people than those who want to leave their phone behind.

It’s extra engineering, cost, support for no good reason.

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Old 06-16-22, 08:08 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Andy Somnifac View Post
There's also the complication that an eSim isn't compatible with all carriers/providers.
You canít pick the provider for the 945LTE. It uses whatever provider Garmin has arrangements with.
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Old 06-16-22, 08:14 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug View Post
Phoneless tracking. Like, literally, that's the thing LTE does. My wife used to use a Quarq Qollector, but the 3G shutdown killed it. Now she has a 945LTE that she uses for bike rides just for the tracking so I can see she's ok. She also uses a 530 for actual ride tracking, and would like an Edge with LTE to handle both LiveTrack and activity recording. A 1040(or 540, or 840)LTE would be an easy immediate sale. The lack of it on the FR955 and now 1040 is concerning to us regarding Garmin's long-term plans for LTE devices, which we'd thought were to be .
Maybe, it doesn’t generally work as well as expected.

Maybe, it’s not worth the hassle of making arrangements with providers to support it.

Maybe, not many people used it.

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2021/06/...explainer.html

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Old 06-16-22, 08:17 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
My question was does LTE require a SIM card to connect to a cellular network ?. Thats how Hammerhead has the Karoo 2 do data (if no WiFi available).
Yes, a SIM card of some form is required (It could be an eSIM). You can't choose the carrier. You use whatever carrier Garmin has made arrangements with.

Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
Hammerheads method is to add a SIM card of your choice, on whatever carrier you choose. You then enable the SIM on the device, it connects when its not using WIFI
The Karoo is really just an Android phone. It might have been cheaper to manufacture just including the SIM support that to engineer it out.

I wonder how many people spend the extra for the service for it.

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Old 06-16-22, 08:35 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by mccombs View Post
Aside from Bikepackers, does anyone else need the Solar version? I wonder who else will be ordering the Solar one.
The bike packers I associate with all use Garmin Edge 530 (and the battery life lasts longer than they can ride in one day) and one of these which can be used to charge the garmin and cell phone up at the same time.

https://www.amazon.com/Portable-2000...s%2C438&sr=8-3

Lot less money than buying a 1040 solar.
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Old 06-16-22, 08:44 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
LTE doesn’t seem to have much use beyond live tracking (and incident detection).

Sure, it might save a little bit of phone battery but at the likely cost of significantly higher battery use in the head unit.

How many people would want to pay $7/month for it?

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2021/06/...explainer.html


It could let the device get texts but those would have to be sent to another number.

Having LTE doesn’t let the head unit replace the phone. So, many more people are likely to also be carrying a phone anyway. There are likely many more of these people than those who want to leave their phone behind.

It’s extra engineering, cost, support for no good reason.
^^So much this.

And all this talk about LTE on a Garmin is useless if you don't have a signal. Nobody (for the most part) is leaving their phone at home when they ride anyway. So why have two devices that have LTE that you have to pay for?

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Old 06-16-22, 09:10 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
Yes,

I wonder how many people spend the extra for the service for it.
Based on paying attention on the HH FB forum, I'd say maybe 10-15%. There are occasional folks inquiring as to what carrier folks are using. Folks use it mostly for LiveTrack and sometimes to connect to whatever sideloaded app they installed that needs cell data (I don't see many comments as to the steps needed to go that route). I tried FeedomPop, found it completely unreliable so just turned it off. Having to get a SIM card, then enable it, all to essentially just use LT was a PITA. The Garmin method of just using the BT connection you've already enabled to your smartphone, is far easier to use, you just enable in the GCM. As well and with some recent updates, Garmin LiveTrack pretty much works reliably for me.

And this touches on the whole idea of LTE in the device. I would guess that 95% of riders bring a phone along on their rides, if only as they recognize the potential to needing a phone in an emergency or mechanical issue. Thus they will likely have the ability to get a connection (if there's available cell coverage) for vis the Garmin phone app for LT, Incident Detection and Notifications, so at that point I cannot see a need for any stand-alone connection right off the device.
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Old 06-16-22, 09:28 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
You canít pick the provider for the 945LTE. It uses whatever provider Garmin has arrangements with.
Then that would be a dealbreaker for me. Not that Garmin should care as I'm not the target for a watch of this type, but if I'm going to pay a data subscription fee (and I assume there has to be a monthly fee) for a data connection, I'd like it to be all tied to whatever single provider I choose for all my mobile enabled devices.
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Old 06-16-22, 10:00 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
Based on paying attention on the HH FB forum, I'd say maybe 10-15%.
LTE is going to be more useful generally on the Karoo (because it's really just a smartphone).

I suspect people who are interested in this feature might be more likely to be forum members. The usage in the overall population might much less.

As a WAG, I suspect that 5% of Garmin users use the Garmin forums.

And it seems very likely that more Karoo users are also carrying phones with them than are using LTE on their Karoo.

Outside of live tracking, I don't see why people wouldn't just tether their Karoo to the phone they are rather likely to be carrying anyway.

Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
And this touches on the whole idea of LTE in the device. I would guess that 95% of riders bring a phone along on their rides, if only as they recognize the potential to needing a phone in an emergency or mechanical issue. Thus they will likely have the ability to get a connection (if there's available cell coverage) for vis the Garmin phone app for LT, Incident Detection and Notifications, so at that point I cannot see a need for any stand-alone connection right off the device.
I think Garmin leveraging the device that many/most people are already carrying makes a lot of sense.

I think carrying a phone while riding is much less of a nuisance than carrying one running. That is, LTE on a non-phone device is more valuable for runners than it is for cyclists. For "serious" people, runner are likely spending less time on the activity than cyclists. That might mean that runners are more likely to not care as much about "full" connectivity than cyclists and have less of an issue not having their phone for that period.

You read this, right?

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2021/06/...explainer.html

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Old 06-16-22, 10:29 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
Having LTE doesnít let the head unit replace the phone. So, many more people are likely to also be carrying a phone anyway.
​​​​​​No. People will only spend the extra premium on this feature because they want the ability to leave their phone behind. Most customers don't pay extra for that ability and then not use it.
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Old 06-16-22, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
​​​​​​No. People will only spend the extra premium on this feature because they want the ability to leave their phone behind. Most customers don't pay extra for that ability and then not use it.
Yes, obviously.

I suspect there aren't that many of these people*. Not enough of a market to have to negotiate with the carriers in multiple places/countries to provide it.

Anyway, it's actually only people who want tracking and incident detection and want to leave their phone behind. That's an even smaller number of people who want to leave their phone behind.

The LTE in the watch serves a limited purpose (tracking and incident detection). Many people are still going to want to get texts and phone calls. (Users of newer Apple watches get much more of the features a phone provides.)

* It's likely that there is a higher percentage of runners who would be interested (I talked about why earlier).

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Old 06-16-22, 10:41 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
I suspect there aren't that many of these people*.
​​​​​​You've said that many times already. We know what your guess is.
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Old 06-16-22, 10:43 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
​​​​​​You've said that many times already. We know what your guess is.
And you keep ignoring it.

The new fr955 doesn't provide an LTE option. That might suggest there isn't much of a market for it. Though, they might release a version later (the ft945LTE is recent; released a year ago).

LTE just for tracking and incident detection is not that useful except to a rather limited number of people. If they are that interested in it, they can get the fr945LTE watch.

The incident detection without being able to contact the person with the incident has issues too.

How many people use the tracking and incident detection (and they are separate features) on the Edges?

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Old 06-16-22, 11:12 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
​​​​​​No. People will only spend the extra premium on this feature because they want the ability to leave their phone behind. Most customers don't pay extra for that ability and then not use it.
over a decade ago, I could rationale that for my area. Seeing how times have changed (downhill) I would much rather have a smart phone that can capture vids/pics & have the capability for dialing out. A bicycle computer with a tracking subscriptions plan will only give the approx location on where I was hit & potentially dragged for a quarter of a mile before being carpeted into the river.
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Old 06-16-22, 12:21 PM
  #47  
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The fr945LTE uses "Cat M1" (LTE-M).

https://www.onlogic.com/company/io-h...20Per%20Second.

This is LTE for limited data transfers.
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Old 06-16-22, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Troul View Post
over a decade ago, I could rationale that for my area. Seeing how times have changed (downhill) I would much rather have a smart phone that can capture vids/pics & have the capability for dialing out.
I would rather have a Cervelo than a Trek.
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Old 06-16-22, 01:18 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
​​​​​​You've said that many times already. We know what your guess is.
Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
And you keep ignoring it.
​​​​​​I have your guess the consideration it deserves, now it's time to move on. ​​​​​​​
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Old 06-16-22, 02:31 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
​​​​​​I have your guess the consideration it deserves, now it's time to move on.
You really need to publish the rules for posting you have. It's impossible to know what random crap is going to upset you.
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