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105 goes Di2

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105 goes Di2

Old 07-02-22, 02:42 PM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by bamboobike4 View Post
Some are more, some are less. That was $800 OEM, the group sold for $350. What you see was about $600 more, so $1050. I balance that out with bikes I know I canít sell for $250. Several of them.

in 2010 or so, I started with $500 on eBay. I bought a bike for $135 and sold it for $300. Over the years, Iíve bought, built, stripped, given away, ruined scores of bikes. Parts built up, went down, bikes and frames came and went. The take-offs and networking and trades all add up.

Currently, I have 15 riders or wall art, and Iím down $8,000. Thus, the $8000/15. Great hobby.
Kudos, but $8k + a dozen years of buying, selling and trading + significant sweat equity != plunking down $8k for a Madone and your statement made the implication of 15 road-worthy DA bikes - nope. I'll stick by my take that I wouldn't want to ride any as-bought $533 bike, let alone have 15 of them.
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Old 07-02-22, 05:40 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by bamboobike4 View Post
Some are more, some are less. That was $800 OEM, the group sold for $350. What you see was about $600 more, so $1050. I balance that out with bikes I know I canít sell for $250. Several of them.

in 2010 or so, I started with $500 on eBay. I bought a bike for $135 and sold it for $300. Over the years, Iíve bought, built, stripped, given away, ruined scores of bikes. Parts built up, went down, bikes and frames came and went. The take-offs and networking and trades all add up.

Currently, I have 15 riders or wall art, and Iím down $8,000. Thus, the $8000/15. Great hobby.
A lot of people just want to ride bikes, not take on a second and third job on an assembly line and in sales.
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Old 07-02-22, 05:52 PM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by vespasianus View Post
The electronic systems don't really shift better than a good mechanical system (been riding Ultegra Di2) but I assume they will stay consistent over time. Actually surprised at how unremarkable Di2 shifting is....
I haven't used Di2 personally but I've been keeping a keen eye watching it in our group rides and have to agree, it doesn't seem any worse or better than mechanical... at least the higher end mechanical groupsets.

I wasn't sold on Di2 when I built my bike last winter and passed on it since it literally doubled the cost of the groupset, it was an easy decision. Admittedly I haven't looked further into spec sheets to see how it saves weight, makes the drivetrain more efficient, or adds reliability. It must do one of those, or all 3, because the stuff exists and at a dear price. I think ignorance might be bliss for a little while longer lol.
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Old 07-02-22, 09:08 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by Ryan_M View Post
I haven't used Di2 personally but I've been keeping a keen eye watching it in our group rides and have to agree, it doesn't seem any worse or better than mechanical... at least the higher end mechanical groupsets.

I wasn't sold on Di2 when I built my bike last winter and passed on it since it literally doubled the cost of the groupset, it was an easy decision. Admittedly I haven't looked further into spec sheets to see how it saves weight, makes the drivetrain more efficient, or adds reliability. It must do one of those, or all 3, because the stuff exists and at a dear price. I think ignorance might be bliss for a little while longer lol.
Doesn't save much weight best I can tell.
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Old 07-02-22, 10:02 PM
  #80  
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Used to come with a weight penalty.
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Old 07-02-22, 10:35 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
A lot of people just want to ride bikes, not take on a second and third job on an assembly line and in sales.
16 centuries in 11 states last year, 1 double, 1 century+ metric. Plenty of others.

I wrench maybe 1 hour a week; sometimes none, sometimes 3-4 hours building a bike.
I don’t golf, watch TV, or fish, and rarely pursue a sale.
That’s what is cool about cycling; people help each other find bikes, fixes, parts.

I like to ride, too. I ride with plenty of people who just buy a bike and ride it.
I’m glad they don’t have to know how to build or fix bikes, as that would be an entry barrier to the sport. The sport needs them, the shops need them, and the industry needs them.

I also have moved dozens of bikes to people who can’t pay $8,000 for a 105 Di2.
During the pandemic, shops would see if I “happened to have a part.”

Just traded a SuperSix Di2 Ultegra (10) for an older Kestrel and a set of wheels, probably a $1500 deal. For that, he got a 15.5 lb bike, Di2, with Zipp 404 tubulars. I got a cool older CF icon and some DA 9000 hoops. I was not enamored of Di2. It’s great but I know how to shift, so I can wait. Others need it worse.

While there is a large group of riders who get a $6000+ bike every few years, there are groups that can’t afford that, and wouldn’t ride if that was the price of entry. In that I find a rewarding hobby and a smile for those who can earn themselves above all that.

We’re all the same once we start rolling on the most efficient way to move man across the planet. We get the bikes somehow and show up. Across the spectrum, it’s pretty congenial. Had a great conversation today with two young guys on fine BMC’s about traveling with bikes and people. They are building their “war wagon,” an older Yukon that they have been altering for a couple of years to “go biking” with. Another guy came over and showed us his 4-bike,4-person, van. None of us worried about the old Colnago, the touring Trek, or the go-fast tri bikes. We got our 60 miles in, had our chat, and a storm hit.

Another good day on bikes.
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Old 07-02-22, 11:27 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by Ryan_M View Post
Admittedly I haven't looked further into spec sheets to see how it saves weight,
Direct comparison, which is tricky now that Ulty and DA don’t have mechanical shifting tiers, the Di2 is generally about half of a McDonalds cheeseburger heavier. Add in disc brakes and it might look like for a lot more money Shimano is selling is 200 extra grams…until you realize that this model year’s CF frames are 500g lighter than 5 years ago, and CF hoops and lighter hubs are leading to everyday wheel sets that clock in under 1600g, where getting under 2000g a few years ago was unobtanium. YMMV, but in my estimation despite the minimal weight penalty for Di2, it’s not turning our bikes into scale tippers.

Originally Posted by Ryan_M View Post
makes the drivetrain more efficient,
This is all subjective. What I will say is that after riding on 11-speed Ultegra and GRX for 6 years, it never misses a shift, and is as fast or slow to move up and down the cassette as I set it to be. 12-speed is reportedly even smoother…maybe I’ll rebuild my SL7 with it, or just wait for the SL8...

Originally Posted by Ryan_M View Post
or adds reliability.
Once properly adjusted, using the very straightforward instructions for doing this from Shimano, which have gotten simpler with each generation, it requires no further adjustment or maintenance, other than cleaning the drivetrain. Electric cables don’t stretch or freeze up in their housings.

Originally Posted by Ryan_M View Post
It must do one of those, or all 3, because the stuff exists and at a dear price. I think ignorance might be bliss for a little while longer lol.
To varying degrees, it meets your criteria. But, at the end of the day, it is not a “must have”. Cables and mechanical derailleurs will work just fine, and unless you’re lining up in Denmark this morning for Stage 3, those can serve your needs perfectly fine. For hobbyists, Di2 is a luxury…one which I will never forgo for the rest of my riding life, but it isn’t necessary.
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Old 07-03-22, 12:36 AM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by bamboobike4 View Post
16 centuries in 11 states last year, 1 double, 1 century+ metric. Plenty of others.
​​​​​​I don't meant to imply that you don't ride, it but enough, or whatever. A lot of people enjoy wrenching on bikes, and often can't imagine a world where everyone else doesn't too. But a lot of people just want to have a bike and ride it when it isn't raining.
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Old 07-03-22, 08:29 AM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
​​​​​​I don't meant to imply that you don't ride, it but enough, or whatever. A lot of people enjoy wrenching on bikes, and often can't imagine a world where everyone else doesn't too. But a lot of people just want to have a bike and ride it when it isn't raining.
Totally get it. Wish at times I was wired that way.
Then I ride past a yard sale, and I see a bikeÖ..
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Old 07-03-22, 07:48 PM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
A lot of people just want to ride bikes, not take on a second and third job on an assembly line and in sales.
Yeah, the people buying 8K bikes, don't blink an eye doing it. 8K is a trivial amount to many people.
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Old 07-03-22, 08:09 PM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
I rotate through all of mine. Different one each ride.
As one does.
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Old 07-03-22, 09:53 PM
  #87  
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Why is a thread about 105 Di2 obsessing over $8k bikes? Several manufacturers have announced bikes with 105 Di2 starting at less than $3k.
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Old 07-03-22, 10:06 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Why is a thread about 105 Di2 obsessing over $8k bikes? Several manufacturers have announced bikes with 105 Di2 starting at less than $3k.
Because that was the example given? It also is an updated model with new, unproven technology. Post the 3k examples. That should make the 8k one get trashed even more.
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Old 07-03-22, 10:43 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
Post the 3k examples.
Google "bikes with 105 Di2".
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Old 07-04-22, 04:02 AM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
Post the 3k examples. That should make the 8k one get trashed even more.
There’s a few examples here. TBF, they are listed in GBP, but with exchange rates and/or US pricing, there are most definitely options in the $3K range. At that upper bound of the $8K range, based on a quick scan of price distribution, they are on the other end of the bell curve and not in the 80% of offered options. The difference from what I can tell, based on a quick scan, not study, the $8K models get much better wheel sets, a lot more carbon, and generally have a bigger manufacturer brand painted on the downtube.

I’d venture that $5-6K is where most of the 105 Di2 equipped model are sitting. Like I said, this is based on a quick scan. It’s a SWAG.
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Old 07-04-22, 06:06 AM
  #91  
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I just built up my dream bike with R7000, rim brake. I think it’s neat that 105 is now electric, but I’ll stick with mechanical for as long as possible because like someone else mentioned, I don’t want to have to charge another thing - to say nothing of the cost. I also don’t have a head unit to link with Di2 for all the fancy readouts. Also, I still like getting my hands dirty and working on bike parts. Let me cable!
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Old 07-04-22, 07:23 AM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
Because that was the example given? It also is an updated model with new, unproven technology. Post the 3k examples. That should make the 8k one get trashed even more.
Iíve wondered the same. Itís not the 105 Di2 that dictated an $8k price.
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Old 07-04-22, 12:00 PM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by Mojo31 View Post
Iíve wondered the same. Itís not the 105 Di2 that dictated an $8k price.
Nope, it's the diamond/coccyx. Soon to be renamed the Trek Tailbone.
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Old 07-05-22, 10:04 AM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by Polaris OBark View Post
Campagnolo.

But it has to be Italian to be a gruppo. SRAM and Shimano make group-sets, which is Chicago-ese and Japanese for group of components.
Either "gruppo" is a loanword (in which case it's fine to use with any manufacturer) or we're speaking English and it's misplaced anyway. It's not like you throw in Japanese terms for Shimano.
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Old 07-05-22, 12:16 PM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Do you still have to buy D Fly separately, or is that just built into the system now?
Looks like it's built in now Which is good and bad. I noticed on my old di2 setup with the D fly it drained the battery significantly faster than without it.
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Old 07-27-22, 03:42 PM
  #96  
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This forum seems to have a ton of holdouts for electronic shifting. I agree it's not revolutionary and requires a big chunk of change to upgrade to especially with 105 Di2 being $1900, however I think mechanical is going the way of rim brakes, in that fewer and fewer bikes will come equipped with mechanical 11 speed and electronic shipping will become the new norm. The harm in this is that 105 which once was the people's groupset now is $1900 and now entry level race bikes MSRP are without a doubt about to skyrocket. Alternatively I have been much more impressed by SRAM Rival AXS eTap, since for a 2X with a power meter tops out at $1650, still a big chunk of change but a much better value compared to Shimano. Honestly, unless you have some preference or already have some parts that are groupset depedent, just going Rival AXS but choosing a Force AXS crank, Red cassette, Centerline Rotors, and maybe Force shifters will probably put on at the same price of 105 Di2 but lighter and better performing
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Old 07-28-22, 04:38 AM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by vespasianus View Post

The electronic systems don't really shift better than a good mechanical system (been riding Ultegra Di2) but I assume they will stay consistent over time. Actually surprised at how unremarkable Di2 shifting is....
Recently I've had a couple rides on my GFs Canyon Ultimate w/DI 2. For frame of reference I ride 105, Dura Ace, Ultegra and SRAM Red all mechanical on my bikes. The DI 2 was set up semi-synchro. I was surprised to be unimpressed. In the beginning it seemed "nice" but with time and experience I can't find a reason to abandon mechanical. And, I am changing it to "mechanical" mode 'cause it drives my GF nuts.
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Old 07-28-22, 06:22 AM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by bruce19 View Post
Recently I've had a couple rides on my GFs Canyon Ultimate w/DI 2. For frame of reference I ride 105, Dura Ace, Ultegra and SRAM Red all mechanical on my bikes. The DI 2 was set up semi-synchro. I was surprised to be unimpressed. In the beginning it seemed "nice" but with time and experience I can't find a reason to abandon mechanical. And, I am changing it to "mechanical" mode 'cause it drives my GF nuts.
But I think it is kinda designed to be "normal", which I guess is good. The key thing is that it is consistent. Day in and day out. No need to ever mess with it.

Now, with a 1x drivetrain, a single cable also tends to work really, really well. Most of the MTB world has been using that setup for 10 years without any issue. And I would say, the demands put on a MTB system are greater. Not sure why you would need to pay such a premium for a 1X electronic system.

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Old 07-31-22, 07:26 PM
  #99  
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Originally Posted by Ryan_M View Post
I haven't used Di2 personally but I've been keeping a keen eye watching it in our group rides and have to agree, it doesn't seem any worse or better than mechanical... at least the higher end mechanical groupsets.

I wasn't sold on Di2 when I built my bike last winter and passed on it since it literally doubled the cost of the groupset, it was an easy decision. Admittedly I haven't looked further into spec sheets to see how it saves weight, makes the drivetrain more efficient, or adds reliability. It must do one of those, or all 3, because the stuff exists and at a dear price. I think ignorance might be bliss for a little while longer lol.
Just bought my first Di2 bike last week. Itís def a much nicer experience than manually shifting imo. Is it worth doing a retrofit on an existing bike?Ö.prob not. I def find myself being able to shift faster and smoother with e-shift. My Defy shifted perfectly, but e-shift is obv more precise. I can feel most shifts,

ymmv
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Old 08-01-22, 10:38 PM
  #100  
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Iím with all the folks who say they donít want yet another thing that needs batteries and charging.

One of my riding buddies has Ultegra Di2. It sounds like heís driving an early 60ís British car with no synchromesh. Whether you use a cable or wireless you still gotta know how to shift.

Also thereís the wedge argument that weíre diverging from a human powered machineÖ just sayiní
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