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How common is 300w for an hour?

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How common is 300w for an hour?

Old 03-04-21, 08:41 AM
  #226  
gsteinb
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Those Crank the Kanc results are mostly TT bikes for the top guys. I took 5th in 2019 and was the first finisher not on a TT bike.
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Old 03-04-21, 11:08 AM
  #227  
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This thread is confusing. It's not like everyone and their mother can do it, but 300w doesn't make you a unicorn unless you weigh like 120lbs. It's almost trivial in NEBRA/NYSBRA.
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Old 03-05-21, 09:40 AM
  #228  
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin View Post
This thread is confusing. It's not like everyone and their mother can do it, but 300w doesn't make you a unicorn unless you weigh like 120lbs. It's almost trivial in NEBRA/NYSBRA.
It is confusing in that most of the responses, including my own at the start were oriented toward what someone could do. The actual wording is "are tossing out 300+w as B racers in Zwift for anywhere from 20min to over 30min." but the title mentions an hour.
burnthesheep I think means an hour. The first half of this thread was about how many can hold 300W/hour and few are recording that, at any level due to a bunch of factors.
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Old 03-05-21, 10:02 AM
  #229  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
It is confusing in that most of the responses, including my own at the start were oriented toward what someone could do. The actual wording is "are tossing out 300+w as B racers in Zwift for anywhere from 20min to over 30min." but the title mentions an hour.
burnthesheep I think means an hour. The first half of this thread was about how many can hold 300W/hour and few are recording that, at any level due to a bunch of factors.
I think BTSís original post was pretty good and generated an interesting thread. Threads wander around as others discuss point and counter point. All good.

IMO, one has to have the capability, opportunity and motivation to clear/achieve the 300 watt bar. Many have the capability but the opportunity i.e. course and format do not offer the distance or amount of time to generate the result and why press oneself if there is no reward.
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Old 03-05-21, 10:11 AM
  #230  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
It is confusing in that most of the responses, including my own at the start were oriented toward what someone could do. The actual wording is "are tossing out 300+w as B racers in Zwift for anywhere from 20min to over 30min." but the title mentions an hour.
burnthesheep I think means an hour. The first half of this thread was about how many can hold 300W/hour and few are recording that, at any level due to a bunch of factors.
The original sentiment, to be blunt, was that I found it quite BS that Zwift can have so many B racers making 300w power for any kind of race anywhere from 20min right on up to the lower end of ftp durations of 45min to 50min+. Most of those races are under a full hour, but if you did 300w for 50min you are likely within a watt or two at 60min. Zwift B, IMHO for all intents and purposes would line up with USAC 4/5. Being under 4w/kg for 20min is a pretty low bar for bike racing. What I was originally getting at is that I bet they're weight sandbagging to the heavier so they don't move up to A-class. Bunch of dudes cruising at 300w and 3w/kg. Really?

I moved on from that because Zwift is virtual. You can't take that stuff as any kind of "reality". Just do you on Zwift and don't worry about the rest, which is what I should do.

That's why I moved on into real world efforts of making 300w.

For I'd say even Cat 3's, it's just not even usable to hold 300w nonstop. You wouldn't do that in anything really but a 25mi regional TT, which at that point you're making less power on a TT bike anyway. So, my question is kind of bogus as nobody has the need to even do it until either your races are longer or you have to do that kind of stuff.

Shoot, if you're somebody who does sweetspot or traditional Z2 then HIIT stuff......you may never do intervals where you do 1x60 all out.

I'm coming to realize that the question was misguided. It's still a fun topic to talk about I guess.

I'm over it with the Zwift thing. It's a training tool. Who cares.

As for me, I think I could do 270w for an hour road or TT right now with a gun to my head. I did 25min the other day in TT at close to 300. Not 300 due to u-turn around and some steep downhill at lower power spinning out. I think I could do it someday......give me 2 years and 2 hrs/week more training time.
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Old 03-05-21, 12:57 PM
  #231  
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Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
I think BTSís original post was pretty good and generated an interesting thread. Threads wander around as others discuss point and counter point. All good.

IMO, one has to have the capability, opportunity and motivation to clear/achieve the 300 watt bar. Many have the capability but the opportunity i.e. course and format do not offer the distance or amount of time to generate the result and why press oneself if there is no reward.
Concur. I'm just surprised that 300w for an hour is viewed as a high bar. The cyclinganalytics chart furiousferret shared makes a lot of sense - there is a pretty high n and seems likely to be representative of the population of interest (racers). Within that context, top 80-90% seems like a perfectly reasonable ballpark for people that can do 300w for at least an hour.
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Old 03-07-21, 06:06 AM
  #232  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
Misc ramblings. I had a very early morning....

I wish there was just one bike. I'd even prefer you have to ride the same bike you started with the whole event. I see the event as both equipment and athlete. I grew up watching rally racing and keeping the car together was also a big part.
But, since I don't get it my way...
There are those hired to WT teams that have not ever competed in a UCI event on a TT bike, or on unrestricted gears. You don't hear about these riders at the time, but they are affected.
An ITT where everyone is holding over 30mph needs different equipment than a race where the speed is low or under 20mph. Of course the equipment contributes to the needs.
Specifically a male junior can hold that higher speed while a 50+, or a woman pro can't - or couldn't.
As such, I favor equipment regulations based on ability, and that it is not age or gender based. Just have some 10 or so categories and reward those within them. Pretty much fondos with waves based on ability.
That is happening anyway also do to regulations. I can be more specific if needed.
Then everyone in Cat 1,2,3 could hold 300W for an hour. Few would, because it would not be needed. Cat 4,5,6 some could and Cat 7,8,9, 10 no one could.
What is interesting is at the track, the TT bike is the sprint or mass start bike with a different cockpit.
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Old 03-07-21, 12:28 PM
  #233  
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Originally Posted by colnago62 View Post
What is interesting is at the track, the TT bike is the sprint or mass start bike with a different cockpit.
For many. The Pursuit bikes tend to be different, I would have purchased a more aero one if junior had continued.
Certainly the wheels are. I bought the Walker Bro double discs and the front has not been used once as it was too wide for the fork.

Never ridden once. Not a single rotation on a bike.
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Old 03-07-21, 01:02 PM
  #234  
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Right. The one bike thing in track is more a testimony of how expensive stuff is and how little it may be ridden.

I was looking into throwing all my effort into pursuit a few years back. Power to weight, I'd be in the conversation for an AG national win. The problem was that the guy I'd have to beat had a million national and world titles, and had spent boat loads of time and money on being aero. I figured it was probably a 10K investment, for a bike I'd rarely ride for more than 4 minutes at a time.

I moved on from the idea.
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Old 03-07-21, 11:03 PM
  #235  
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Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
Right. The one bike thing in track is more a testimony of how expensive stuff is and how little it may be ridden.

I was looking into throwing all my effort into pursuit a few years back. Power to weight, I'd be in the conversation for an AG national win. The problem was that the guy I'd have to beat had a million national and world titles, and had spent boat loads of time and money on being aero. I figured it was probably a 10K investment, for a bike I'd rarely ride for more than 4 minutes at a time.

I moved on from the idea.
there isnít a lot of middle ground in terms of cost.
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Old 03-07-21, 11:13 PM
  #236  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
For many. The Pursuit bikes tend to be different, I would have purchased a more aero one if junior had continued.
Certainly the wheels are. I bought the Walker Bro double discs and the front has not been used once as it was too wide for the fork.

Never ridden once. Not a single rotation on a bike.
It seems like most track riders use more narrow wheels than on the road. I imagine there is less of an advantage, since crosswinds really aren't an issue for most. The Felts definitely are different in that they were built specifically for the team pursuit, but is more the exception than the rule in terms of track equipment. It is such a small niche that companies rarely make equipment specifically for the track. Most track frames are the companyís TT frame from the road with frack dropouts on it. An example would be the Cervelo T4.

Last edited by colnago62; 03-07-21 at 11:17 PM.
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Old 03-08-21, 05:10 AM
  #237  
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Originally Posted by colnago62 View Post
there isnít a lot of middle ground in terms of cost.
Well, sure. Which is why a lot of folks who don't consider it a priority use the same bike. But I'd only be doing the pursuit, since I gave up on the stuff in crowds. As that point the endeavor would have been about winning.
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Old 03-08-21, 07:51 AM
  #238  
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Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
Well, sure. Which is why a lot of folks who don't consider it a priority use the same bike. But I'd only be doing the pursuit, since I gave up on the stuff in crowds. As that point the endeavor would have been about winning.
Cost is definitely a consideration. Even riders who are serious about track racing find the cost prohibitive. I think the Felt goes for $25,000.00 as a complete bike. It was aimed at national teams.
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Old 03-08-21, 09:04 AM
  #239  
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Originally Posted by colnago62 View Post
Cost is definitely a consideration. Even riders who are serious about track racing find the cost prohibitive. I think the Felt goes for $25,000.00 as a complete bike. It was aimed at national teams.
Focusing on the absolute top end of the sport is kind of disingenuous. That $25k is pretty much only used by the national team members, and not even all of them.

There are a couple of issues when it comes to track equipment: 1. It's not a high-volume area. So it's hard to build scale when you're not producing a lot of frames/wheels/bars... 2. It's super competitive at the international level. Every national team with a budget is trying to out do their competition with equipment. A lot of the items are intentionally priced prohibitively expensive to prevent others from buying them. Also, track equipment development tends to follow the Olympics, so new equipment comes out the year before the Olympics games, but it's not available to the general public until after the Olympics are over.

Still, there are plenty of middle-ground, affordable options in the used market. It just takes time and effort to find them, and they may not be available when you need them.
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Old 03-08-21, 09:15 AM
  #240  
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Originally Posted by topflightpro View Post
Focusing on the absolute top end of the sport is kind of disingenuous. That $25k is pretty much only used by the national team members, and not even all of them.

There are a couple of issues when it comes to track equipment: 1. It's not a high-volume area. So it's hard to build scale when you're not producing a lot of frames/wheels/bars... 2. It's super competitive at the international level. Every national team with a budget is trying to out do their competition with equipment. A lot of the items are intentionally priced prohibitively expensive to prevent others from buying them. Also, track equipment development tends to follow the Olympics, so new equipment comes out the year before the Olympics games, but it's not available to the general public until after the Olympics are over.

Still, there are plenty of middle-ground, affordable options in the used market. It just takes time and effort to find them, and they may not be available when you need them.
If you spent more than just a moment and read what I wrote, you would have noticed that I stated that the Felt was aimed at national team riders. The conversation was about having a dedicated pursuit bike. My original post was most track riders use the same frame they use for mass start and just switch out the cockpit.
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Old 03-08-21, 06:41 PM
  #241  
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Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
Right. The one bike thing in track is more a testimony of how expensive stuff is and how little it may be ridden.

I was looking into throwing all my effort into pursuit a few years back. Power to weight, I'd be in the conversation for an AG national win. The problem was that the guy I'd have to beat had a million national and world titles, and had spent boat loads of time and money on being aero. I figured it was probably a 10K investment, for a bike I'd rarely ride for more than 4 minutes at a time.

I moved on from the idea.
Would his initials be LN?
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Old 03-08-21, 06:42 PM
  #242  
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nope, I am not that old.
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Old 03-08-21, 07:03 PM
  #243  
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The other day local to me a carbon Fuji track bike popped up for $350. I wondered if it was stolen or a rich hipster that liked fixies given the price. But it was way way too big a frame for my build. Otherwise I probably would have bought it just for the hell of it.
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Old 03-08-21, 07:32 PM
  #244  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
The other day local to me a carbon Fuji track bike popped up for $350. I wondered if it was stolen or a rich hipster that liked fixies given the price. But it was way way too big a frame for my build. Otherwise I probably would have bought it just for the hell of it.
Please share link. I need a seat collar.
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Old 03-08-21, 07:35 PM
  #245  
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Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
nope, I am not that old.
It is funny when a rider in an age group pretty much shuts it down for a generation or two. I was never at that level but the Mark Hoffenberg and Thurlow Rogers being local and somewhat in my age group made the whole thing rather a non-issue. I saw no point in competing outside of a RAAM or Mexican Fondo.
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Old 03-08-21, 07:51 PM
  #246  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
Please share link. I need a seat collar.
It disappeared off CL about a month ago.
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Old 03-08-21, 08:20 PM
  #247  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
It disappeared off CL about a month ago.
Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
The other day
Oy Vey
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Old 03-09-21, 08:37 AM
  #248  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
The other day local to me a carbon Fuji track bike popped up for $350. I wondered if it was stolen or a rich hipster that liked fixies given the price. But it was way way too big a frame for my build. Otherwise I probably would have bought it just for the hell of it.
It's probably not too big. You generally want to size up for a track bike.
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Old 03-09-21, 08:42 AM
  #249  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
It is funny when a rider in an age group pretty much shuts it down for a generation or two. I was never at that level but the Mark Hoffenberg and Thurlow Rogers being local and somewhat in my age group made the whole thing rather a non-issue. I saw no point in competing outside of a RAAM or Mexican Fondo.

Not having any idea what that is, it sounds kind of not too PC.
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Old 03-09-21, 08:45 AM
  #250  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
It is funny when a rider in an age group pretty much shuts it down for a generation or two. I was never at that level but the Mark Hoffenberg and Thurlow Rogers being local and somewhat in my age group made the whole thing rather a non-issue. I saw no point in competing outside of a RAAM or Mexican Fondo.

Totally. In this case, with me setting it up as a challenge against 1 single guy who wouldn't even know my name seemed like the sort of thing that would end up not being too fun or healthy.


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