Arthur Peabody

'The parents of a girl who died after an e-bike accident filed a wrongful-death lawsuit on Monday against the Seattle e-bike company Rad Power Bikes.

In the suit, Kaye and Jonathan Steinsapir, the parents of Molly Steinsapir, who died last year at age 12, claim that flaws in the bike's design made it difficult for riders to slow down and stop as the bike gained speed while going downhill.'

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/01/s...s-lawsuit.html

Polaris OBark

#BadParenting

So why aren't they suing the 11-year-old friend's parents?

Yet there is no evidence (at least from the description in the NYT article) that the front wheel was ejected or even that the quick release in any way failed.

The lawsuit has no merit.

I hope it gets tossed.

Yeah, clearly it should have been included in a YouTube video. Everyone knows nobody RTFM.

Yan 

Two kids riding on one bike, decide to bomb down a hill, inevitably crashes, one kid dies. Sorry for their loss but this is bad parenting. It has nothing to do with the bike.

veganbikes

The brakes on the Rad bike are pretty poor for an e-bike but even a non-electric bike and we see a lot of people complaining about them but yeah a lot of this is parenting. Come on, people, this isn't rocket appliances you don't need to sue because as the townspeople of Pawnee, Indiana would say "Your daughter is an idiot"

jon c. 

Doesn't seem like it's the fault of the bike, but I don't see it as bad parenting.

I crashed a non-motorized bicycle at high speed down a hill over 50 years ago. Fortunately escaped with a concussion but was okay 24 hours later. I don't really think my parents were to blame. Kids do things like this. Sometimes, luck is not with them and it ends in tragedy. There is no outside agency to blame.

2old

Unfortunately, any suit has "merit" if it gets to court when you consider the "intelligence" of the average juror. The other day I was in an affluent section of socal and saw 10+ kids, some riding double, about the same age (10 - 13) riding with abandon on Super 73's. I thought the next lawsuit would occur when they killed or maimed someone while zooming around on the sidewalks.

cat0020

In general, Americans are sue-happy;
instead of being accountable for each of their own actions, suing companies when accidents occur and make people feel entitled to compensation to the outcome.

Bicycle companies clearly have weight limits on their products, likely somewhere in print also limit one rider per bicycle.
Even though these parents are big shot lawyers, I doubt this lawsuit would result in favor of the parents.
Maybe to avoid bad press, Rad would settle out of court, pass the cost of settlement down to other consumers.

unterhausen

I'm really curious what radpower could have said to them to keep this suit from happening, as the parents have said. "we only seek a payday with the deepest of sadness"
The causes named in the suit, namely trail and quick release with discs don't really seem to have been a factor. I really wonder what the trail numbers were on this bike. Rear loading a low trail bike is generally a bad idea, and they did increase the trail on current models. But the bike features an extended rear triangle.

2old

IMO, it is a "place the blame someplace beside parenting" suit. AFAIK, both the parents are attorneys and you know what they say about a hammer. If they win, companies like Rad will need to increase their expenses and be at a competitive disadvantage to other smaller companies that either aren't worth suing or are overseas and pretty much exempt from it. One way or another Rad will end up modifying their instructions, placing labels all over the bike and/or supplying an instructional CD, all of which consumers will ignore.

himespau 

Win or loose, Radbikes is going to have a much larger insurance premium next year. Whether or not other ebike manufacturers do too is the only question.

linberl

I read this news story. While my heart breaks for this family, it's not Rad Power's fault. If their daughter had been driving in a car with someone and had been killed, would they sue the car manufacturer or the driver/driver's family? Her death was not the result of an ebike.
Her death was the result of an inexperienced and unskilled driver of said ebike. You can only put so many idiot labels on things and people need to use common sense. No parent should allow an 11 year old to ride with a passenger on an ebike without permission from
the parent of the passenger. In my area there are lots of Radpower cargo bikes with parents driving and kids riding - and in the Bay Area there are some pretty good hills - and there haven't been any reports of serious injuries. This is user error and parent error. But if you sue someone else, then you don't have to accept that you are at fault.

Polaris OBark

Often insurance companies will sue others on your behalf. You don't get a say in the matter. (It sounds like this case is not such an example, but I am suggesting that a lot of litigation originates from the insurance industry.)

https://corporatefinanceinstitute.co...r/subrogation/

linberl

I personally wouldn't mind seeing e-bikes regulated like driver's licenses are for teens. A learner's permit, pass a test, then you can ride one. Minimum age 15 or 16. Lack of frontal lobes + extra power = bad combination.

veganbikes

Are you talking about actual bicycles or did you mean to say E-scooters and mopeds? Mopeds could use regulation but bikes don't need licenses they have to be pedaled to move forward. If it has a throttle let's be honest about it and call it a moped. Any bicycle electric or not is powered by the pedals moving forward and do not really need any regulation on that front that could prevent normal people from riding. Kids shouldn't be on mopeds for sure without licenses fine but bikes are fine and most kids e-bikes are speed limited anyway and since they are pedal assist you still have to pedal.

base2 

For one: Rad Power Bikes are garbage. Ask any bike shop mechanic. Even RAD won't fix Rad bikes.

For 2: They are dangerous AF. Ask anyone who has ever rode one & has also rode a quality bicycle.

For 3 their brakes are equipped with the cheapest $h1t3 single piston mechanical travesties money can buy & they are on a 28mph 80lb monstrosity. They don't work in the best of times & require constant adjustment in the best of circumstances.



For 6: As parents, they are responsible for the equipment maintenance & condition thereof.






(Yes, I skipped/edited out #4 & #5...Blasting the parents for buying tweens multi-thousand dollar disposable motorcycles to neglect so they could blow up & down the cul-de-sac seemed a bit classist. Blasting the parents for making what we can only guess they consider to be disposable offspring (as evidenced by items 1-3) seemed a bit mean. But they are lawyers & there is a settlement at stake...


I feel sad & sorry for the little girl. She died because her parents didn't care about her safety or wellbeing until there was a settlement to be had.

linberl

I am talking about ebikes as well as mopeds. Some ebikes are capable of 28+mph, that's as fast as a scooter. And, frankly, unless a kid is disabled they don't need assist, they need exercise. We live in a society full of overweight unhealthy kids. Also, since teens often ignore regulations and ride skateboards on the sidewalk and engage in other potentially reckless behavior, I think adding motors without some guidelines is a bad idea. Adults have fully developed frontal lobes and supposedly can decide right from wrong; kids are not in the same situation.
It's just my opinion, but I have seen groups of teens behave dangerously on bike pathways and sidewalks and can't think of a good reason to enhance their actions with a.motor. And if you've ridden a pedal assist bike, you know you don't really have to pedal much to keep the motor going; most will go with intermittent ghost pedaling. So you've got a teen on a super heavy bike, 20+ heavier than a regular bike, moving at a much faster speed than on a regular bike, riding on crowded pathways and sidewalks, gee what could possibly go wrong?

cat0020

That may be the case to you, but not for majority of ebike community that operate ebikes for reasons different than yours.
Regardless who fixes these cheaper ebikes, they are not meant for two person on one ebike.
Operator of the ebike is solely responsible for how the ebike behaves while it is being operated.

Any bicycle can be dangerous, even the high end, quality built ones; how dangerous all depends on how it is operated, they are particularly dangerous when you operate beyond its designated usage; such as two person on one ebike or bicycle.

Plenty of folks use similar setup without issues in NYC delivery community that operate 24/7, all weather conditions, even snow/ice; they log far more miles every single day than most recreational users.

As my previous post, Americans are used to suing their way out instead of being accountable for their own action or negligence.


Not all are meant to be parents, and just because you could doesn't mean you should or up to the task.
Unfortunately, kids are going to be kids, they do dangerous thing to learn their own way and sometimes accidents occur that children don't survive.
It may not be the parents' fault, but just kids being kids; some mistakes are fatal.

2old

My son has a Rad bike probably like the one described in the suit ($1,500 or so, non-folding). He rides it with his 80 pound daughter on the back without incident. It's fine as long as you realize its limitations and make sure it's maintained, just as you would with any other tool. Anyone who expects a $1,500 ebike to be as competent and high quality as a $4,000 - $12,000 bike won't be impressed by it, but I'm sure he'll get many years of service just as lots of others riding these types of ebikes.

linberl

Simon Cowell broke his arm riding one of these. M1-Sporttechnik: E-Bikes mit TQ-Antrieb und Carbon Rahmen. NOT cheap. The problem isn't the e-bike or how expensive it is, it's the rider being inexperienced, careless, stupid, etc. If you drive a car like a moron, you can get killed in a BMW just as easily as in a Toyota.

2old

linberl, I think it was his second such accident.

MNebiker

Here in my state the statues state that the driver of an electric-assisted bicycle must be at least 15. Logic says the same thing too.

unterhausen

I don't know what to do about crummy ebikes being used by 11 year old children in irresponsible ways. It's probably going to happen if parents can't stop it. Someone said above that radpower bikes were not meant for 2 people, but they sell a seat for that bike and show it carrying a passenger. And the person operating the bike is obviously using a throttle, because there is no way for them to pedal given their position on the bike.




NYC had a ban on throttle-only ebikes and it was only used to persecute food delivery workers. I think the current class 2 (throttle) limit of 20mph is good enough.

2old

My son (6'1', 210 pounds) and his 80 daughter fit fine on their Rad. The problem here IMO was the age of the "pilot". Of course, it's a tragedy of unbelievable magnitude, but it's the parents fault IMO, and disgusting that they're trying to profit from it. To me, it's our stupid legal system.

jfouellette

Let s see. 13 year old child owns an ebike. 11 year old child takes the bike for a ride with a 12 year old child sitting on the rear luggage rack. They have an accident, one dies. Manufacturers instructions read that the bike is to be operated by above 18 year old. This is sad of course. Manufacturer of bike gets sued. To me there is a chain of bad decisions from many people involved.

speedy25

My turn to weigh in.

The news story has "chunks" of any factual information missing. This is typical of the times paper. They no longer do journalism. Dont make up your mind on what happened other than the actual facts of (sadly) a girl is dead.

My own personal experience is that self assembled consumer direct bikes almost ALWAYS have at least one safety fault when they show up at my shop. Who knows how many that bike had.

While some people can ride a passenger on a rack that isnt design to carry passengers and no footrests for their feet, that doesnt mean its a good idea. Their lawsuit may be thrown out on that technicality alone.

There are many people that I cringe about wanting a test ride. Then there was the 8 yo boy that I eventually sold a Yamaha e-mtb, that I had no qualms about letting him ride a class 3 Raleigh Lore. That kid could ride! Even kids have different skill levels. As a teen I gave my friends rides in the basket of my cycle truck. It was just like a load of Sunday newspapers.

Its just another nuisance suit where legal wrangling happens because someone can sue a company that may have deep pockets.

It will be interesting to see if it goes ahead or just quietly disappears. It could have an effect on consumer direct sales if they find out that self assembly curse is part of the fact finding for this case.

-SP