LV2TNDM

If you're riding on the road, it just makes sense to always use lights. Blinkeys, flashers, whatever. Today's lights are bright, efficient, and not too expensive. Your life's worth it!

I was hit a year ago by an idiot driver. Lights probably wouldn't have helped. But maybe. I wasn't hurt - didn't go down actually - but that day was the last day I rode without lights 24/7/365 on the road.

Driving a popular, twisty mountain road, I saw the value of lights during the day. Entering and exiting shadows make seeing a cyclist in the shadows more of a challenge for drivers. Lights address this issue very effectively. You could always see the riders who used lights in the shade. So smart.

My friend was just hit by a left-turning driver as he was doing 40mph. Helicopter to the hospital and multiple surgeries. But he's doing well and almost certainly will be back on the bike again. In great shape and has been riding forever. Racing on and off road, commuting for 30 years in the Bay Area, he's about as experienced as you can get. But a driver got him. Wasn't using lights, but I'm not blaming him. Not at all. Still no excuse that a driver wouldn't see him. But if he had been using lights, she very well would have seen him. We'll never know.

Now please don't get me wrong. I know they're no guarantee. Motorcyclists get hit all the time and they have lights much brighter than ours (on average). But it's simply a must these days. And I'm sure there's a compelling argument that if more cyclists use lights, it may endanger the few who don't. Who knows, but this could be true. We may just make drivers worse and lazier behind the wheel, who knows.

But until then, it's simply too crazy out there to not use lights.

Thanks for your consideration.

Paul Barnard

It makes good sense for us to do things to increase our visual conspicuity. Not because we are hard to see, but because we are trying to steal the attention of marginally engaged drivers.

BTinNYC

I'm getting a front light. Riding in full shadow last week made me think about it, and your story confirms it.
Sorry about your friend's awful crash.

rumrunn6

yesterday saw a middle aged guy riding an electric bike on a sidewalk, moving at a pretty good clip. not pedaling at all. no lights of course. no helmet. what could possibly go wrong?

Leisesturm

Inexpensive lights will not be seen enough in daylight. Expensive lights are a waste of money and scarce energy resources in daylight. It does a disservice to the PSA aspect of a topic to observe that it "probably wouldn't have helped. But maybe". If it's that 50/50 I'll save my money and ride more situationally aware. I'm living proof that you can ride decades in heavy, urban traffic and never get hit. Use Hi-Viz in daylight, use as much or as little light as you need TO SEE, at night. Use whatever safety geegaws are necessary to BE LEGAL in your locality, and the rest is up to your defensive riding skills, and maybe, very good luck on rare occasions.

BobbyG

As a 30-year bike commuter I spend half the year riding home in the dark. Over the years I have worked up a lighting strategy, and what seems like the most successful was adding a bright (but not blinding) 180-degree white flasher on top of my helmet, and a 180-degree red flasher on the rear. THe helmet lights are up high where they can be seen over the hoods and trunks of many vehicles, and through the windows of taller SUVs.

A few years ago I read a discussion on bikeforums about being seen while riding with a low sun behind you, which should be a big concern for bike commuters who tend to ride during sunrises and sunsets. I decided to begin riding with my lights on all the time and I gotta say it has made a huge difference! Once in a wile I will get positive comments from motorists who were excited at how visible I was. Not as many as the 'get off the road' rants though. And none have complained about the helmet light being too bright, although after dark, I have had complaints about my main headlight which is brighter, but not crazy bright, but again, not as many as get of the street rants.

Inusuit

I use Bontrager flashers front and rear, Hi-Viz shirt or vest. Observing other riders similarly equipped, such lights are visible for half a mile in daylight. I understand neither lights nor bright clothes are a guarantee. I'm willing to use the scarce energy resources necessary to charge the lights every few rides if they give me even a slight safety edge on the road. Cost of the lights is insignificant compared to the price of my bike and the value of my life.

Paul Barnard

High vis doesn't stand out as well on the shaded side of a cyclist in morning and evening hours. It doesn't stand out nearly like it does in full sun. The prudent cyclist will use a cocktail of strategies to enhance visual conspicuity, from lights, to high vis colors (especially on moving parts like the head and legs,) to lane positioning. The smart cyclist will use situational awareness as their most valuable tool.

I got laughed at here when I suggested that the constant movement of high vis socks and shoes could be useful in helping cyclists stand out. Since our lower bodies will often be obscured by vehicles, it makes sense to use high vis helmets as well.


https://www.google.com/search?q=how+...qtsP3MyVyAg_69

Chuck Naill

I would never complain about a bike light being too bright. The last thing I want to do is hurt or kill a cyclist. I use very good and expensive lights anytime I ride. I also keep a backup in case the batteries run out of juice.

Good post and thanks for the reminder.

Daniel4

500lumen headlights are so cheap nowadays I wonder if they are good quality. A lot of them listed in Amazon come from China and don't have brand names I recognize or have reviews on Youtube or Google searches.

My 250lumen Petzl still works but I get frustrated with the smart detector: I think I had set it at the highest luminosity when riding about an hour before sunset or dark cloud conditions then I find out the smart detectro had turned my light off.

Ideally I'd like a really bright light in the daytime so drivers trying to turn left across the street at the intersection will see my light glaring at them. The same deal when I try to make eye contact through darkened car windows.

LV2TNDM

Why are your replies almost always critical and/or negative? I've found your posts to be so negative over the years. Really gets old. And they're oftentimes misleading or counter-productive. This post matches that description to a T!

Now perhaps I should have defined "inexpensive." A $60 rechargeable set of lights is "inexpensive" in the grand scheme of things. Compared to the $350 night riding systems I've used over the 30 years, $60 qualifies. Compared to a $3,000 bike, $60 is inexpensive. Compared to a $120,000 Tesla, $60 is really cheap. Compared to a $2,000,000 house, $60 is nothing! Riding in and among these "high-priced" things, $60 is a total no-brainer, especially when YOUR LIFE IS AT STAKE! But today's lights are even that much better. That said, you can EASILY find a $40 set that's just as bright. Brighter and longer-lasting than many light systems costing 2X or 3X as much 10 years ago.

But the point is this: Drivers are hurried, distracted, selfish, ignorant, lawless, stressed, irresponsible, homicidal maniacs right now. Now lights won't help against the homicidal drivers (they'll aim better!), but lights will indeed help against most of the others.

And the experienced riders out doing their big mileage on narrow country roads will benefit too. As I said, the bright light / dark shadow conditions I mentioned are a considerable danger. Even more crucial knowing you'll be encountering some "older" folks enjoying their sports cars whose vision probably isn't as good as it was 30 years ago. In other words, doesn't matter HOW much experience you have when that 70 yo Porsche 911 driver apexes a turn across the centerline in the shade and takes you out. Lights are a no-brainer in this situation. (Oh but I'm sure Leisesturm will rebut this statement will all sorts of argumentative verbiage.)

As someone who uses a both a bell AND 90db horn, a reflective vest, a rear-view mirrors, involved in bicycle advocacy, participated in early Critical Mass and has been riding for 48 years in almost all environments, I feel pretty qualified to say "I get it." And what "I get" now is how smart lights are.

And any relatively new rider? They'll benefit from lights way, WAY more than those of us who've spent decades "duking it out" on our urban transportation "hellscapes" for decades.

But be happy Leisesturm, no one is MAKING you use a light. Isn't freedom nice?

LV2TNDM

I purchased two 1,000 lumen lights for $20 on Amazon well over 5 years ago. Both still working just fine. They're incredibly bright. But they're the "old school" light with separate battery pack and charger. I stopped using them when the more convenient USB rechargeable, all-in-one lights became readily available. They're very easy to move quickly between bikes. No chargers or batteries to misplace or forget. So for these reasons, I've stopped using those lights from Amazon.

genec

Sounds like you have a pretty good plan... while I did not have the forward white light on my helmet, my 30 years of commuting taught me that 3 lights in vertical line, facing back were a good indicator of "something unusual" to motorists. I tended to have a helmet flasher, seatback flasher and a strong steady light on my rack. I think any combination of that, with at least one steady light are pretty good for indicating "cyclist."

In front, I went with one low flasher and of course a steady high beam. But that three vertical red to the rear seemed to work best.

Oddly, three vertical lights indicate to mariners that a slow tow is ahead or a vessel is constrained by draught. (the top white is the mast head, and the lowest red is the red/green indicating port/starboard side.)

BobbyG

Cool!

Daniel4

How did you find the drivers' response to the three vertical lights? Were they consistant? From other threads, 'unusual' confuses drivers and you just might be a visual target.

I-Like-To-Bike

Three red lights are good, more are better; day or night. Better yet if the vertical lights sway a bit left and right. It creates quite a sight at night, quite useful when riding on 55mph highways without the benefit of a useful shoulder.



"other threads" are often posted by people re-posting nonsense taken out of context from an alleged "study" that somebody read about somewhere on the Internet; or stuff they dreamed up all by themselves.

genec

"Unusual" may indeed "confuse" drivers who then respond by giving lots of room. The visual target thing I believe comes more from a steady single light or a regular pattern blinker... the latter perhaps a mimic of a roadside hazard marker... or even flashing police lights.

As ILTB mentioned, something moving or swaying, or in my case, with irregular blinking patterns (different blinkers) tends to get the "WTF" attention of drivers.

This latter bit is why I also think the PB superflash or other lights that change blink patterns tend to work.

Leisesturm

I'm flattered that you have even taken the time to notice my post history. But I disagree that they are overly anything. They are what they are. You are biased I fear, because at this moment we disagree. My writing style might be 'drier' than many. More grammatical. That is not, in itself critical and/or negative. I also disagree that my posts contain any false information. Not agreeing with YOU doesn't make ME wrong. In A&S it is usually the cyclists that have been hit, some multiple times, that have the most to say about what or what not makes a cyclist safer. Meh. I'd rather get the POV of the cyclist(s) that has never been hit. I was riding a good 25 years before flashers were ever invented, and probably another 10 before they got good enough to be worth a damn. And they are still not better than riding cautious and aware. So it was the overstatement of putting out an unsolicited PSA that we all should be lighting up day and night to be safe when that simply is not the case that caused me to respond. It isn't. You don't have to believe me, I don't really care. But I have every right to put my truth out there next to yours. And I will. Peace. Out.

I-Like-To-Bike

Correct!

GhostRider62

All those front, bright flashing headlights blinding me? They suck. And, should be illegal.

LV2TNDM

I'm glad you're flattered. Too bad it's for all the wrong reasons. I guess you should thank me for not calling you out more.

Anyway, your original reply and this one, as usual, reek of arrogance and dismissiveness. You're so full of yourself, it's embarrassing. To wit;

"And they are still not better than riding cautious and aware." Wanna back that up with some ACTUAL data?

Because I'm pretty sure you're wrong. "Dead" wrong. As in, many riders may end up "dead" following your officious recommendations.

If lights don't improve safety, then why do drivers often encounter "Daylight Safety Sections" on high-risk highways? Oftentimes, two-lane highways that have been identified as having much higher incidence of serious crashes, oftentimes involving fatal head-on collisions require drivers to use headlights ALL THE TIME. Hwy 20 out of Auburn is one such highway, as is Hwy 99 in the Sacramento valley. But even thought it's safer AND the law, there are arrogant drivers out there who can't be bothered to turn their lights on. Looks like I found one of 'em - YOU! Figures.

If lights during the day don't offer additional safety, then why are "Daytime Running Lights" on automobiles considered an additional safety feature? And why do insurance rates drop for drivers using them?

Thirdly, if lights don't help, why do motorcycles use daytime running lights? Why are they now required in California and other states?
"Anyone riding a motorbike produced after 1977 during the day must have daytime running lights."

Fourth, drivers are now required to turn on their headlights during inclement weather in many states, California included. I'm sure many drivers could simply "drive better and avoid collisions" if they were just more experienced, according to you. But those in the REAL world understand that drivers aren't perfect; they're distracted, hurried, impaired and who knows what else. So instead of wishing and hoping drivers would driver better in the rain, we simply passed a law to require headlights be used whenever your windshield wipers are on. Pretty simple. OH but there are hordes of drivers who can't be bothered to do this. The ones in silver cars are a SPECIAL kind of stupid! Again, I'm guessing this might be you.

Looks like these four examples clearly rebut your mis-informed stance on bike lights during the day. I could go into these examples in further detail, but would rather not waste any more time on you. Again, your reply was 100% predicted, and you confirmed my suspicion almost immediately.

Now we're all impressed with your LONG tenure pedaling on two wheels. But consider this, when you and I were wearing hairnet helmets, drivers weren't on their phones! They weren't surfing the internet or sending texts. They didn't have their eyes glued to a navigation screen as they tried to figure out where they're going. This fact ALONE is enough to convince anyone with ANY sense to use lights on their bicycle during the day (in addition to at night, obviously).

But nope, you've come here to rebut a suggestion that doesn't need rebutting. To let everyone know that my post was an "unsolicited PSA." You apparently find someone offering sound advice that may save a life and/or serious injury "unsolicited advice" on a bicycle forum. I disagree. And as I said, your "opinion" will increase risk for people heeding it. Well, the friend who was hit, as I said, has more mileage under his belt than about 95% of the bicycling public. And in a very dense urban area. So he's the PERFECT example of the "experienced cyclist" who didn't use lights who was almost killed by a driver who didn't see him. Looks like "depending on experience" wasn't quite enough. Didn't matter how many thousands of miles he had on the saddle, or how many right-hooks he's avoided during his 30-career cycling to work, he STILL got nailed. That right there is a pretty strong argument for front and rear lights during the day.

But I'm countering your stupid post because I feel the new or less-informed cyclist might take your advice in error. The newer or less experienced cyclist needs MORE tools at their disposal to reduce the chance of collision. It's like the baloney "alternative facts" crap we're seeing today. Let's barrage people with "both sides of the argument" and leave them drawing the wrong conclusions, or leave them too confused to make the correct conclusions. Lights are the correct conclusion, ESPECIALLY for new riders. Once they've gotten 25 years of cycling under their belts, then maybe they can forgo the lights and be as safe and awesome a rider as you are!!!

GhostRider62

Yes, let's not have debate. Let's just listen to brilliant people like you with their own alternative facts. I just want to say, I did not read your stupid post.

livedarklions

Seriously, if the only proof you have is conjectural anecdote and studies/laws that deal with the supposed effectiveness of drl for motor vehicles, I don't care if you find that convincing. Your anecdotes don't prove anything because we can't test them against the same situation but with drl this time, you're just guessing that drl would've made a difference.

DRL may or may not provide a marginal increase in safety for cyclists, but there's no reason to believe that it's a clear-cut case whether you should use them or not.

And I really don't get the argument that lights are a defense against distracted driving at all. If they're not looking at the road ahead of them, your lights aren't going to matter.

If we're going to go by anecdote, as a driver, I've never been in a situation where I had trouble seeing a cyclist during the day.

I have no problem with drl except that some of the bright rapidly flashing white lights actually make it harder to figure out the position and heading of the cyclist. I've posted on this enough that I don't want to debate that yet again.

I actually didn't care about your psa one way or the other, but I'm pretty fed up with this "you can listen to me or die" rhetoric so many people use on A&S.

Paul Barnard

Interesting that you mention navigation lights. Since lights aren't visible during the day, vessels display "day shapes." You probably know this, but others may find it interesting that day shapes are black in color.

RB1-luvr

and buying blinkies gives us another bicycle thing to shop for. Who doesn't like bike accessory shopping?

I've been designing and 3D printing brackets for some of my bikes lately. Fun.