The Golden Boy 

IMO- I understand the "comparable" thing in the initial post- but if this is to be a "531 framed touring bikes" thread, then maybe the bikes posted should have frames of 531- irrespective of how good and cool Columbus, Ishiwata, Miyata, Tange and other tubing is... There is a 'show your vintage touring bike' thread that encompasses all those. Not to be a jerk, or a cork-sniffing gatekeeper- but it's confusing. There's enough trouble with people identifying their bike as a "touring bike" without bringing metallurgy into it.

Don't get me wrong- I still love looking at pix of peoples' classic touring bikes.

Reynolds 531 tubing goes back to the 1930s and it's a Magnesium/Molybdenum/Carbon steel alloy- as opposed to a Chromium/Molybdenum alloy- and it's been available (as Chr0m0ly mentioned) in different thicknesses and butting, as well as different combinations as tube sets or with other tubing from individual builders- but it's always been the hallmark of a high/upper level frame. What makes 531 so desirable is that it is very strong- and a strong bike can be made with thinner, butted tubing.

My 531 tourers are all old Treks. A 1978 Trek TX700- 531 frame and fork, a 1985 Trek 720- again 531 frame and fork and a 1985 Trek 620 with a 531 main frame and CrMo stays and fork.

TX700Built1 by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr

IMG_0616 by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr

1985 Trek 620 by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr



The 531CS vs 531C decal.

620n720 by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr

720n620 by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr

Andy_K 

1969 Raleigh Competition



I'm never sure where to draw the line between "touring" and "sport touring". In fact, I'm not sure there even is a line.

The 1973 Motobecane catalog describes the Grand Record as "An unquestionably elegant touring bicycle for the sophisticated man" so I guess it must be a touring bike. Here's my 1972.



And if the Grand Record was a touring bike, then I guess the Grand Jubilé must have been also. Mine has extensive Gugificazione which definitely makes it even more of a touring bike.

Positron400

I presume most of those come with a 126mm spacing? How do you go about that if you wanna fit a modern 8-10 sp cassette? Cold set the rear triangle or use a 7sp freewheel? (also, are 126 mm hubs still readily available?)

Andy_K 

With 126 you can usually fit 130 without any modification. I usually cold set mine to make wheel changes easier, but it really isn’t necessary.

Positron400

cool, thanks. So one would usually go for a 130 mm standard hub then, to build up one of these dream-machines?

non-fixie 

Not necessarily. It mostly depends on your dreams.

My favorite touring bike happens to be an English Reynolds 531-tubed dedicated touring machine with a 3 x 5 drive train. Suits my dreams fine.

fvernon

One of my current favs that fit the 531c category, also all about that 86bcd life. 46/28 chainring combo shifts perfectly with the right FD and friction shifting

Currently working on a '75 Holdsworth Mistral for my wife that is also full 531db and clocks in at a respectable 2660g for the full frameset.

Andy_K 

If the spacing started at 126, then yes. Some of us have even had success using a 130mm standard hub in an aluminum frame with 126mm spacing. Since aluminum can't be cold set the way steel can, I think this is a good proof point.

With 120mm, the stretch is probably too far. You can cold set 120, but then purists will wrinkle their nose at you.

rccardr 

The Raleigh Gran Tour posted above is 120mm OLD and has an 8 speed 12-34 HG rear cassette.
Spreading was neither involved nor required.
Could even be indexed shifted if one were so inclined.
It’s not VooDoo, it’s ingenuity.

52telecaster

Grand Record 531.

Soody

Raleigh Randonneur project I have. Quite a lovely bike with some interesting spec, but needs a lot of work.
Gonna call it a touring bike because it says tourer on it.

Chuckk

My orange Dawes Galaxy in the Texas Hill Country - Spring 1990

The Golden Boy 

What are you looking at, as far as what kind of "tourer?"

Some people think any bike is a touring bike. Some people think bikes with swept back bars are touring bikes. Some people think that bikes with slightly longer chainstays are touring bikes. Some people think bikes with any rack or bag is a touring bike. Some people think that any bike with center pull brakes are touring bikes. Some people think that things with wheels are touring bikes.

I think the majority of bikes made before 1975 could be considered "touring bikes." After that, you really had more of a widespread concept of creating shorter wheelbases for dedicated racing bikes, and then the wheelbases grew for dedicated tourers- along with dedicated rack mounts, multiple bottles and cantilever brakes.

If you were to ask me, the touring bike reached a peak around 1985. "Touring" bikes were the most expensive and flagship bikes of companies- as such, the high end touring bikes came with all the high end touches; premium tubing (531,Columbus), beautiful, yet rugged, yet lightweight components that allowed for huge ranges of gearing, and a graceful, leisurely yet still "business" appearance. As the 80s went on, tourers became less of a flagship endeavor and touring bikes became less prominent, they became even more focused into being more rugged, less gentlemanly and featured fewer "top of the line" touches.

A neat way to see it is Sandro Fouche's chart of the development of the Schwinn Voyageur and the Voyageur SP:

https://simplicityvintagecycles.file...comparison.jpg

Look at the introduction/deletion of the models and see way the tubing row changes. You can see it through the Trek catalogs as well.

I have a 1985 Trek 720 and a 1990 Miyata 1000LT. The Miyata is the better dedicated tourer, the 720 is a more fun bike to ride. You can absolutely load down the 720, but it's not as stable as the M1K, especially under load- I wouldn't say it's "flexy" but it's not as stable (nor as "stout") as the M1K. That's just the way the touring bikes evolved in just that 5/6 year time frame. As touring bikes have evolved- you get into the bikes like the Long Haul Trucker- which seems to be a further continuation of the trend of going towards less fancy and gracile and more robust and brutish.

So that's my frame of reference- a tourer means a long, relatively slack frame, braze ons for racks, cantilever brakes and a wide range triple.

Positron400

so you just "squeeze" in the 130 mm hub? Honestly curious if that works like that, because i have a potential frame incoming with this OLD (120mm), and honestly no idea how to go about gearing

What I am looking for are ideas on what frames to keep an eye out, and of course, looking at lush bike pictures for potential builds. Schwinns or Raleighs are not really common in my area (Europe), but I want to expand my knowledge about those types of frames/manufacturers/brands.

Would defo love to get my hands on a Miyata 1000 LT or a TREK 520, but they are currently outside of my price range

rccardr 

Oh my, no. That would hardly be ingenious.
Instead, I took a DA7700 rear hub, replaced the freehub with an HG 7 speed (-5mm), replaced the 6mm spacer on the NDS with a 1mm spacer (-5mm) and shortened the axle by 10mm. The result is a 120mm OLD quality hub on which one can run 8 cogs with 9 speed spacers (8 of 9 on 7). Easy to either friction shift, or index shift using 9 speed Shimano compatible shifters. Do this on a built wheelset and no re-dishing is required since you removed the same amount from both sides. And is makes a wheel as strong as a standard DA 7700.
One could do the same by messing around with an equivalent 7 speed hub and reducing some spacers.
Another possibility would be to narrow a common Shimano or Campagnolo 126mm freewheel hub by removing spacers, was pretty common back in the day.

The Golden Boy 

Isn't that really the most fun part? Looking at other people's builds, thinking about how they got to that build, how it works, how something like that would work for you?

One of the things that's pretty cool about old bike stuff is that it's a "hobby of opportunity." You can run across the most amazing stuff at a fraction of the cost of what it was new. You can always figure out what you like and look for it. Sometimes that means throwing money at something- sometimes it just falls into your lap. For the first 6-7 years I was into bikes, I could not find something "good" that I could afford. I couldn't find a 531 framed bike. It was like there were none around. Then I finally got one. And then it was freakin' RAINING 531 bikes in my size.

For me- the attraction was throwing a bunch of stuff on the bike and heading out "that way" for a few days with a daydream of riding across the country. I think the "grand tourer" concept of the mid-80s really appealed to that. It was "adventure" while appealing to my tendency to be a dork about minutiae- it was striking that balance between fancy and graceful, while being rugged and badass.

After ignoring "modern" technology for years- I finally upgraded a bike to 10s and wondered why I didn't do this all along. So getting a mid 80s bike that came spaced at 128 was important for being able to just squeeze in a 130mm hub for 10s.

I think once you recognize what makes a good bike, what components are good (and why)- it goes beyond a brand or model name- you see a bike with a Columbus or 531sticker, a fair amount of room between the tire and seat tube, you see cantilever brakes, you see Campagnolo or Shimano SF dropouts, and it's built with Deore XT... That's the start of a great bike.

52telecaster

You pretty much described my journey the last few years.

Positron400

I would've never thought of that! Thank you so much! Now I could actually go for the AD Vent Noir I "kinda" have my eyes on.
Some follow-up questions, since i have never done stuff like that before (tbf, i switched out a 7sp for a 10sp hub, which might come in handy now )

• what axle spacers would i have to use?
• shorten the axle by 10cm as in: "hacksawing it off"?
• how do i "just use" an 8 speed with spacers? Could i alternatively use a 7sp cassette?

Completely agree - I never considered myself much of a handyman but tinkering with bikes is great fun and making stuff work.

tjfastback66

vintage '83 Cilo

My Florida ride

$100 at a thrift store - new wheel set and tires ($70) new seat ($30) so for $200 not a bad ride!

Jeff Neese

Sorry I don't have a picture of the bike all by itself. My 1983 Trek 720 (and me) in upper Michigan.

tjfastback66

1978 Raleigh Super Course BEFORE AND AFTER


Original and very dirty

Went for the Restomod

Positron400

cool cool! what made you decide on the bar end instead of the og DT shifters? How did you go about the rear dropout? cold set or freewheel?

3alarmer 

...with five cogs in the back, and three chainwheels in the front, you should be able to put together a reasonably wide range for gearing that would allow "touring". If that's what you want to do. You'll need to pay attention to derailleur selection, so that the cage in the rear will take up all the slack in that wide range gearing, and the front derailleur needs to have enough throw to transit all three chainwheels. But I've toured on such things (briefly). If you're not really interested in hauling around all your stuff for a few days, or weeks, you might consider some sort of randonneur setup, which is pretty flexible with regard to gearing, because you're not carrying large loads uphill.




A rando setup on a 531 framed Peugeot

Woodrup Giro Tour. Fun to ride, but again, not setup for loaded touring.

Same bike in winter.

Mondia made the "Special" as a touring version of the Super Mondia. As you can see, this one is a little large for me.

The Raleigh International has a good light touring geometry, is framed with DB 531, and this one currently sports a rear rack and fenders. I have no current pictures of it. If you want wide range gearing, you'll have to change out the stock components.

This is a true 80's touring bike, with a triple in the front, and a pretty wide range rear derailleur. I have some racks and bags for it, but rarely use them any more.

rccardr 

Any 1mm axle washer will do. I just happened to have one on hand. Yes, a hacksaw would work, but I used a Dremel with a fibre cutoff wheel.
Start with any combination of eight cogs that will work for you. Thickness is not all that important, but most of the ones I use come from salvaged 8-9-10 speed cassettes.
Build the cassette from the largest cog out using 9 speed spacers. If you don’t have any you can start with a 9 speed cassette or get some made by Chris Laurie at MBT.
Yes, you could use a 7 speed cassette. Or start with a ten speed cassette and run 9 of 10 on 7.

Positron400

Thanks again - where would i get axle washers? I seem to be unable to find them for order online. (mind you, i am the EU).
I will likely go for the 7sp, route then. How can i tighten down the cassette otherwise?

EDIT: Got my hands on a Royal Force with an almost full dura ace groupset today. Seatpost ist obviously stuck, but there are ways to get it loose. (I hope). Hoods need to be replaced and gearing is VERY tall for my taste (53/42). other than that, seems to be a great find!