Talk me out of Frame Mounted Front Racks
03-18-23, 07:46 AM
#26
Senior Member
Application is touring on pavement (80%) and gravel roads (80s) with 15-20kg of luggage. Not a big load at all but the goal is to build a great handling bike not only a good enough handling bike.
My goal is to replicate the ride feel of a gravel/endurance road bike I particularly like. To do that properly I have to keep the weight distribution of my loaded bike similar to the reference bike. I keep as much luggage as possible near the center of gravity (frame bag) which also decreases shimmy issues (see my post yesterday). The rest of the luggage I distribute on a front and a rear racks so that the overall weight distribution is similar to the unloaded bike whose ride feel I like.
I actually plan on getting a custom frame mounted front rack made (and a custom frame.) But nerding out on the theory is also a lot of fun for me.
My experience: I have toured for almost 20 years (deserts, pavement and everything in between) on various bikes including a bike with low rider panniers (plus rear panniers): With the fork mounted panniers I liked the planted feel and the ability to climb without loosing front wheel traction (bc of the good weight distribution). But no hands riding was terrible with the low riders :/ (probably because of wheel flop) and I ride like no hands riding to take the stress of my lower back.
My goal is to replicate the ride feel of a gravel/endurance road bike I particularly like. To do that properly I have to keep the weight distribution of my loaded bike similar to the reference bike. I keep as much luggage as possible near the center of gravity (frame bag) which also decreases shimmy issues (see my post yesterday). The rest of the luggage I distribute on a front and a rear racks so that the overall weight distribution is similar to the unloaded bike whose ride feel I like.
I actually plan on getting a custom frame mounted front rack made (and a custom frame.) But nerding out on the theory is also a lot of fun for me.
My experience: I have toured for almost 20 years (deserts, pavement and everything in between) on various bikes including a bike with low rider panniers (plus rear panniers): With the fork mounted panniers I liked the planted feel and the ability to climb without loosing front wheel traction (bc of the good weight distribution). But no hands riding was terrible with the low riders :/ (probably because of wheel flop) and I ride like no hands riding to take the stress of my lower back.
Because of your experience, you'll know that getting your bike to feel like the gravel/endurance bike you like, is only going to happen to a certain point, and as you say, really will come down to keeping the weight down and centralized.
I can't really see how you can carry 20kg, or 44lbs using only bikepacking bags, so it seems you most likely will have to use panniers.
How would a custom frame with frame mounted rack feel and ride? Who knows, I dont think any of us can really answer.
As for riding no hands for your back? Again, will a frame mounted rack help with this? How high will the weight be on this frame mounted rack? How much weight? Will the extra cost, hassle, weight of a frame mounted rack be worth it?--especially with weight high up? Who knows.
as for your back, consider the factor of having higher bars. Does your gravel bike have quite a seat to bars drop distance? My tourer has the bars at seat level pretty much, and with the dropbars I have on it (shallow drop and reach) when I am in the drops, I actually get a nice lower back stretch, and the higher bars vs a more aggressive road or gravel bike setup makes all the difference for my back comfort riding all day--but we all know every person's back is different, and every bike setup is different for a different person--so we cannot argue "what is right or best" for your or my back--but do perhaps consider or think of your seat to bars drop as a factor for you to be more comfortable back wise.
good luck, but a fun discussion anyways.
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03-18-23, 08:00 AM
#27
Banned.
Steering Damper
Has the OP ever ridden with a steering damper installed? I ride using one purchased from Velo Orange to help out with loads on the front fork mounted rack. I find it moderately helpful but the spring tension (which is adjustable) is woefully inadequate for any form of serious load. I've tried another cargo bike which has one come as stock and the spring is much stiffer (non-adjustable), so much so that some may find it irritating when carrying no load up front.
I like the idea of a frame mounted front rack and would explore it further given the chance. Some Dutch bike supply company made a mountable (to your existing frame) sleeve coupler which received their own front rack and this arrangement effectively achieved what a permanent fixture does (probably minus a bit of overall weight carrying capacity).
I like the idea of a frame mounted front rack and would explore it further given the chance. Some Dutch bike supply company made a mountable (to your existing frame) sleeve coupler which received their own front rack and this arrangement effectively achieved what a permanent fixture does (probably minus a bit of overall weight carrying capacity).
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03-18-23, 08:04 AM
#28
Senior Member
One thing I'll hesitantly add is that shimmy and speed wobbles have a large rider component so a rider who has never had a problem with them is likely to not have them with a new setup. A rider who has had a problem with them on other setups is more likely to. Some riders I have known have complained of them on almost everysetup they have tried. Some have never experienced them at all even when seemingly doing everything that should cause them. Some have found subtle hints of them that they could manage to suppress.
A pilot friend calls them PIOs or pilot induced occillations. I am convinced that pilot induced occilations are a real thing when it comes to bike shimmy or speed wobbles and often a factor or even the main cause. Because of this I never tell someone a given setup should be okay or not unless I know the rider well and even then I'd temper any advice wit an "it depends on the rider".
A pilot friend calls them PIOs or pilot induced occillations. I am convinced that pilot induced occilations are a real thing when it comes to bike shimmy or speed wobbles and often a factor or even the main cause. Because of this I never tell someone a given setup should be okay or not unless I know the rider well and even then I'd temper any advice wit an "it depends on the rider".
I suspect that there is some truth in what you say. I can say that as someone with lots of two wheeled experiences and handling issues over the years, if a bike doesn't get wobbles, you would think that someone would be hard pressed to get it to, or to complain about it---but one never knows, some riders have weird expectations and bike handling skills in general, so I can see it.
I have had bicycle experiences where a wobble would start and really get worse and worse. I've also had the start of this happening, and then I redistribute load a bit and it solves the issue right away. My setup on my Surly Troll is such that I've learned to keep the weight low and centralized as much as possible (heavier things in rear panniers in the front of pannier) and keeping the up top on rack weight down. That bike will occasionally start the slightest of head wags on a descent, but by just weaving a bit side to side clears it for some reason---which does touch on the theory of the "death grip" rider who freezes and holds on super tightly with a shimmy, that can sometimes make it amplify.
no clear answers here as usual, and speed wobbles can absolutely get out of hand in some circumstances, but can be hardly anything at times but can still rattle a rider and they can make it worse or panic or whatever.
03-18-23, 08:10 AM
#29
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Wheel flop is the vertical distance of the head tube (or any other part of the steering axis) when the wheel is pointing straight forward vs when the wheel is turned. The bikeradar article in my OP has a picture illustrating this. No weight on the front wheel, no matter how it is attached, changes this amount of vertical travel. The difference between frame mounted and steering axis mounted front racks is that...
1) ...when the wheel is turned any weight attached to the steering axis accentuates this wheel movement because the head tube "falls" down into the turn. So when there is weight on the steering axis this fall (aka flop) is more pronounced. So wheel flop itself with a steering axis mounted front rack has not increased because the geometry has not changed (wheel flop is a function of head tube angel and trail) but it was enhanced. Some reference outside the bicycle world to the definition of wheel flop: fxsolver com/browse/formulas/Wheel+flop
2)... both the frame mounted and the steering axis mounted front rack push the weight distribution forward (center of gravity of the bike/rider/luggage system moves forward). This slows down the steering because there is more weight in the front wheel, which increases stability. But if you add frame bags and panniers the weight distribution shifts rearwards again which negates this effect.
So the question remains: where is the effect on steering of a frame mounted front rack asides from weight distribution effects?
You can also approach this question more visually: you can think of the frame mounted front rack as a very heavy head tube. Will that have a effect on steering characteristics besides the weight distribution?
1) ...when the wheel is turned any weight attached to the steering axis accentuates this wheel movement because the head tube "falls" down into the turn. So when there is weight on the steering axis this fall (aka flop) is more pronounced. So wheel flop itself with a steering axis mounted front rack has not increased because the geometry has not changed (wheel flop is a function of head tube angel and trail) but it was enhanced. Some reference outside the bicycle world to the definition of wheel flop: fxsolver com/browse/formulas/Wheel+flop
2)... both the frame mounted and the steering axis mounted front rack push the weight distribution forward (center of gravity of the bike/rider/luggage system moves forward). This slows down the steering because there is more weight in the front wheel, which increases stability. But if you add frame bags and panniers the weight distribution shifts rearwards again which negates this effect.
So the question remains: where is the effect on steering of a frame mounted front rack asides from weight distribution effects?
You can also approach this question more visually: you can think of the frame mounted front rack as a very heavy head tube. Will that have a effect on steering characteristics besides the weight distribution?
Weight on the front end accentuates. They dynamics of handling are not static measurements. See Pilot induced error. Where weight is located has a massive effect on static and dynamic handling.
Those who want input from those who know something should take the time to think about what is written lest they be considered a bad name and I get a time out for saying what I really think
03-18-23, 08:58 AM
#30
Senior Member
horst, if you are from Germany or somewhere in Europe, from my experience there are a lot more bicycle frames with frame mounted front racks than here in Canada or the United States. The only ones we tend to see here are European cargo bikes or city bike.
The Brompton I rode that had luggage attached to a frame mounted rack had a really weird visual sensation, of turning the front wheel and the bag not moving, but the bike itself steered nice and lightly.
As a European, I am sure that you will have lots of frame options that we do not have here, but I still wonder if it is worth the (possible) added weight of the rack, and having the weight much higher on the bike.
Alles gute (good luck) with finding options, and yes, your English is rather good, so I hope you find it welcoming here with this discussion. The vast majority of people here are helpful and friendly.
cheers
The Brompton I rode that had luggage attached to a frame mounted rack had a really weird visual sensation, of turning the front wheel and the bag not moving, but the bike itself steered nice and lightly.
As a European, I am sure that you will have lots of frame options that we do not have here, but I still wonder if it is worth the (possible) added weight of the rack, and having the weight much higher on the bike.
Alles gute (good luck) with finding options, and yes, your English is rather good, so I hope you find it welcoming here with this discussion. The vast majority of people here are helpful and friendly.
cheers
03-18-23, 09:05 AM
#31
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03-18-23, 09:07 AM
#32
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Several years ago I was watching a British tv show on PBS, it was recently produced but was portraying a story in the 1960s or 70s and I recalled someone rode a bike with a frame mounted platform or basket in front of the head tube, it was fixed to the frame, thus it stayed in place when you turned the handlebars. And the handlebars were attached to the fork, it was not one of the cargo bikes you now see that has a fork on one headtube and a different steerer tube for the handlebars that is controls the fork orientation with levers or cables or some other means. And in the story someone called it a butcher's bike. So, I googled that and found several examples. Note that they all have a smaller front wheel than the rear so that the basket or platform can be lower to the ground but remain above the front wheel.
I am hoping my pasting photos from other sites is successful here:
The above two examples are clearly vintage, as they have rod brakes, not cable operated brakes. These two examples, I am a bit surprised that the front wheels are only 32 spoke, I would have expected 40.
And here is a link to several more photos. Some of these have large wheels in front, but most use a smaller wheel in front. And a few are newer (likely from the past half century) with cable operated brakes.
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo/bu...ortBy=relevant
If the OP wants to build up a touring bike like that, let him. I am happy with the design of the bikes that I have.
I suspect that a good amount of reinforcing would be needed to prevent the frame from shimmy. When you put that much weight out on a cantilever arm, you should expect resonance.
I am hoping my pasting photos from other sites is successful here:
The above two examples are clearly vintage, as they have rod brakes, not cable operated brakes. These two examples, I am a bit surprised that the front wheels are only 32 spoke, I would have expected 40.
And here is a link to several more photos. Some of these have large wheels in front, but most use a smaller wheel in front. And a few are newer (likely from the past half century) with cable operated brakes.
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo/bu...ortBy=relevant
If the OP wants to build up a touring bike like that, let him. I am happy with the design of the bikes that I have.
I suspect that a good amount of reinforcing would be needed to prevent the frame from shimmy. When you put that much weight out on a cantilever arm, you should expect resonance.
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03-19-23, 02:28 AM
#33
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shouldn't it be a fairly simple thing to construct your own? frame-mount baskets are available as options from multiple e-bike manufacturers. you may have to macguyver a modification to the mount, but start with an available rack.
https://ebikegeneration.com/products...ke-rack-basket
https://www.amsterdam-bicycle.com/sh...um-front-rack/
https://ebikegeneration.com/products...ke-rack-basket
https://www.amsterdam-bicycle.com/sh...um-front-rack/
03-19-23, 02:35 AM
#34
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Has the OP ever ridden with a steering damper installed? I ride using one purchased from Velo Orange to help out with loads on the front fork mounted rack. I find it moderately helpful but the spring tension (which is adjustable) is woefully inadequate for any form of serious load. I've tried another cargo bike which has one come as stock and the spring is much stiffer (non-adjustable), so much so that some may find it irritating when carrying no load up front.
I like the idea of a frame mounted front rack and would explore it further given the chance. Some Dutch bike supply company made a mountable (to your existing frame) sleeve coupler which received their own front rack and this arrangement effectively achieved what a permanent fixture does (probably minus a bit of overall weight carrying capacity).
I like the idea of a frame mounted front rack and would explore it further given the chance. Some Dutch bike supply company made a mountable (to your existing frame) sleeve coupler which received their own front rack and this arrangement effectively achieved what a permanent fixture does (probably minus a bit of overall weight carrying capacity).
03-19-23, 02:54 AM
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hi stae,
I suspect that there is some truth in what you say. I can say that as someone with lots of two wheeled experiences and handling issues over the years, if a bike doesn't get wobbles, you would think that someone would be hard pressed to get it to, or to complain about it---but one never knows, some riders have weird expectations and bike handling skills in general, so I can see it.
I have had bicycle experiences where a wobble would start and really get worse and worse. I've also had the start of this happening, and then I redistribute load a bit and it solves the issue right away. My setup on my Surly Troll is such that I've learned to keep the weight low and centralized as much as possible (heavier things in rear panniers in the front of pannier) and keeping the up top on rack weight down. That bike will occasionally start the slightest of head wags on a descent, but by just weaving a bit side to side clears it for some reason---which does touch on the theory of the "death grip" rider who freezes and holds on super tightly with a shimmy, that can sometimes make it amplify.
no clear answers here as usual, and speed wobbles can absolutely get out of hand in some circumstances, but can be hardly anything at times but can still rattle a rider and they can make it worse or panic or whatever.
I suspect that there is some truth in what you say. I can say that as someone with lots of two wheeled experiences and handling issues over the years, if a bike doesn't get wobbles, you would think that someone would be hard pressed to get it to, or to complain about it---but one never knows, some riders have weird expectations and bike handling skills in general, so I can see it.
I have had bicycle experiences where a wobble would start and really get worse and worse. I've also had the start of this happening, and then I redistribute load a bit and it solves the issue right away. My setup on my Surly Troll is such that I've learned to keep the weight low and centralized as much as possible (heavier things in rear panniers in the front of pannier) and keeping the up top on rack weight down. That bike will occasionally start the slightest of head wags on a descent, but by just weaving a bit side to side clears it for some reason---which does touch on the theory of the "death grip" rider who freezes and holds on super tightly with a shimmy, that can sometimes make it amplify.
no clear answers here as usual, and speed wobbles can absolutely get out of hand in some circumstances, but can be hardly anything at times but can still rattle a rider and they can make it worse or panic or whatever.
Another implication of it being a complex system is that changing any variable has a chance of eliviating it: e.g. putting knee on top tube, standing up or sitting down etc. So the practical advice while shimmy is happening is: just change SOMETHING. It also explains why people on internet forums report very different, sometimes opposing, methods that helped to alleviate their shimmy issues.
Last edited by aerohorst; 03-19-23 at 03:19 AM.
03-19-23, 03:12 AM
#36
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horst, if you are from Germany or somewhere in Europe, from my experience there are a lot more bicycle frames with frame mounted front racks than here in Canada or the United States. The only ones we tend to see here are European cargo bikes or city bike.
The Brompton I rode that had luggage attached to a frame mounted rack had a really weird visual sensation, of turning the front wheel and the bag not moving, but the bike itself steered nice and lightly.
As a European, I am sure that you will have lots of frame options that we do not have here, but I still wonder if it is worth the (possible) added weight of the rack, and having the weight much higher on the bike.
Alles gute (good luck) with finding options, and yes, your English is rather good, so I hope you find it welcoming here with this discussion. The vast majority of people here are helpful and friendly.
cheers
The Brompton I rode that had luggage attached to a frame mounted rack had a really weird visual sensation, of turning the front wheel and the bag not moving, but the bike itself steered nice and lightly.
As a European, I am sure that you will have lots of frame options that we do not have here, but I still wonder if it is worth the (possible) added weight of the rack, and having the weight much higher on the bike.
Alles gute (good luck) with finding options, and yes, your English is rather good, so I hope you find it welcoming here with this discussion. The vast majority of people here are helpful and friendly.
cheers
The weight of such a rack (if my design works as intended) is lower if anything. The luggage weight also wouldn't be higher compared to a front rack (of the style shown in the bikepacking .com article in my OP). Low riders are nice for low center of gravity but terrible for aerodynamics so the fair comparison are racks that place the luggage above the front wheel.
03-19-23, 04:39 AM
#37
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I am not an aeronautical engineer, but I suspect that in the photo (below) my front panniers are not that bad for aerodynamics, as all they really do is disrupt the air a bit before the air hits the rear panniers and rack top bag. In this case, the front rack mounts the panniers about 3 inches above the normal height for front panniers, thus the front panniers add very little to the frontal area.
It is unclear to me how important you feel that aerodynamics are, but if you are very concerned about aerodynamics, a recumbant bike with a trailer might be the best option.
03-19-23, 04:49 AM
#38
Senior Member
Not sure there's any way around a heavy front rack if you intend to carry more than wallet and a sammich in it.. All the frame mounted racks i've seen use thick tubing and heavy-duty mounts. You've lost the support struts that mount below the basket, either to the axle or the fork blades, so the entire package is supported by the frame mount.
03-19-23, 08:42 AM
#39
Senior Member
Vielen dank
The weight of such a rack (if my design works as intended) is lower if anything. The luggage weight also wouldn't be higher compared to a front rack (of the style shown in the bikepacking .com article in my OP). Low riders are nice for low center of gravity but terrible for aerodynamics so the fair comparison are racks that place the luggage above the front wheel.
The weight of such a rack (if my design works as intended) is lower if anything. The luggage weight also wouldn't be higher compared to a front rack (of the style shown in the bikepacking .com article in my OP). Low riders are nice for low center of gravity but terrible for aerodynamics so the fair comparison are racks that place the luggage above the front wheel.
as for aerodynamics. Yes, I get that having narrow bags is better and with a lightly loaded bike it makes a difference, I have ridden with narrow bags and you can certainly feel the bike has less of a "sail effect" compared to fat panniers sticking out---BUT, carrying 20kgs is always going to be slow, so really all this concern about aero in my opinion is a very small effect.
but you are having fun, so enjoy, but do share some photos of bikes with what you are talking about.
03-19-23, 11:34 PM
#40
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Not sure there's any way around a heavy front rack if you intend to carry more than wallet and a sammich in it.. All the frame mounted racks i've seen use thick tubing and heavy-duty mounts. You've lost the support struts that mount below the basket, either to the axle or the fork blades, so the entire package is supported by the frame mount.
show us a photo of a bike with a system that you are thinking of, but as someone astutely noted, ways carrying luggage on bikes have been developed for a long time, and generally front fork mounted racks work very well.
as for aerodynamics. Yes, I get that having narrow bags is better and with a lightly loaded bike it makes a difference, I have ridden with narrow bags and you can certainly feel the bike has less of a "sail effect" compared to fat panniers sticking out---BUT, carrying 20kgs is always going to be slow, so really all this concern about aero in my opinion is a very small effect.
but you are having fun, so enjoy, but do share some photos of bikes with what you are talking about.
as for aerodynamics. Yes, I get that having narrow bags is better and with a lightly loaded bike it makes a difference, I have ridden with narrow bags and you can certainly feel the bike has less of a "sail effect" compared to fat panniers sticking out---BUT, carrying 20kgs is always going to be slow, so really all this concern about aero in my opinion is a very small effect.
but you are having fun, so enjoy, but do share some photos of bikes with what you are talking about.
It's a complete experiment. Maybe there are reasons why these are so rare. But theoretically it's convincing (overall): steering characteristics remain independent of how much weight you put on there, i.e. wheel flop is not enhanced like with steering axis mounted racks. Things that could cause issues are: the weight distribution effect but that is the same for any front load; the cantilever concern (see post #32 by MSN tourist above) and the related difference how force is introduced into the system (into the down tube vs into the fork/front axle, see rodfordbuild article in my OP); the visual sensation question (is it irritating that the racks doesn't turn with the wheel?) 🤷 Did I forget anything?
Last edited by aerohorst; 03-19-23 at 11:43 PM.
03-20-23, 12:02 AM
#41
Senior Member
My thinking is to attach it to the head tube and the down tube similar to the red/white bike shown here: https://hembrow.eu/frontrack.html I would make it much narrower and use lighter tubing because I intend to only put a maximum of 4 kg on there. I would also pull the very front of the rack up with rope attached to the intersection of top tube and head tube and press the bag onto the head tube to minimize the effect of the load...
there are other simpler, lighter options.
a small buttpack, a tiny frame pack to fit the rear triangle between the seattube and the chainstays, a small bag that velcroes above the top tube behind the head tube, small dual-pouch mini-saddlebags that fit over the front of the top tube and won't interfere with a main triangle bag. all these options are available, inexpensive, functional, and much less weight.
https://bikepacking.com/wp-content/u...-snak-pack.jpg
https://bikepacking.com/wp-content/u...n-1200x800.jpg
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB15yumn...dq6ARgVXam.jpg
these brake mount bike front racks are lightweight, can carry up to 10kg. will need to contact macguyver, of course...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/203961052886
Last edited by saddlesores; 03-20-23 at 12:36 AM.
03-20-23, 12:17 AM
#42
Senior Member
but if you really want a small front rack, go for it. post photos when you're done.
i'd be looking at the take-offs bin at the local scooter dealer.
https://www.ebay.ie/itm/266178604617...item3df97b2e49
https://www.ebay.ie/itm/364099765657...item54c6098599
i'd be looking at the take-offs bin at the local scooter dealer.
https://www.ebay.ie/itm/266178604617...item3df97b2e49
https://www.ebay.ie/itm/364099765657...item54c6098599
03-20-23, 01:25 AM
#44
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Sure, basically the eBike accessory with professionally macguyvered mounting braces. you'll wind up adding a mass of metal to support up to 4kg.
there are other simpler, lighter options.
a small buttpack, a tiny frame pack to fit the rear triangle between the seattube and the chainstays, a small bag that velcroes above the top tube behind the head tube, small dual-pouch mini-saddlebags that fit over the front of the top tube and won't interfere with a main triangle bag. all these options are available, inexpensive, functional, and much less weight.
https://bikepacking.com/wp-content/u...-snak-pack.jpg
https://bikepacking.com/wp-content/u...n-1200x800.jpg
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB15yumn...dq6ARgVXam.jpg
these brake mount bike front racks are lightweight, can carry up to 10kg. will need to contact macguyver, of course...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/203961052886
there are other simpler, lighter options.
a small buttpack, a tiny frame pack to fit the rear triangle between the seattube and the chainstays, a small bag that velcroes above the top tube behind the head tube, small dual-pouch mini-saddlebags that fit over the front of the top tube and won't interfere with a main triangle bag. all these options are available, inexpensive, functional, and much less weight.
https://bikepacking.com/wp-content/u...-snak-pack.jpg
https://bikepacking.com/wp-content/u...n-1200x800.jpg
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB15yumn...dq6ARgVXam.jpg
these brake mount bike front racks are lightweight, can carry up to 10kg. will need to contact macguyver, of course...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/203961052886
The last option you mentioned is a a front axle mounted rack again...
Regarding weight: I guess the rack will weigh less than the majority of those presented in the backpacking.com article in my OP.
03-20-23, 01:52 AM
#45
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Of course you could make the bike ride / fit like a Holland bike (very upright) and eliviate lower back issues but that isn't fast. The goal, if you want to ride far and fast, is a bike which allows riding in very different positions (very upright and more stretched out/lower).
Last edited by aerohorst; 03-20-23 at 02:11 AM.
03-20-23, 05:30 AM
#46
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My thinking is to attach it to the head tube and the down tube similar to the red/white bike shown here: https://hembrow.eu/frontrack.html I would make it much narrower and use lighter tubing because I intend to only put a maximum of 4 kg on there. I would also pull the very front of the rack up with rope attached to the intersection of top tube and head tube and press the bag onto the head tube to minimize the effect of the load.
It's a complete experiment. ...
It's a complete experiment. ...
If there is no need to keep the load up high, you could carry this quite easily with a couple anything cages and dry bags of four liter size that are attached to the fork blades down low, that is not much of an aerodynamic drag but yes it would be greater than what you are proposing. Yes, this would move with the handlebar rotation, but once you are faster than about 8 km/hr you do not notice that much. Or the more simple option is a bikepacking handlebar harness to hold a drybag there, but that the same characteristics as the anything cage loads.
Go for it, nothing is stopping you other than the time, effort and cost.
My suggestion, there are quick release handlebar bag brackets. Build an attachment to your frame for a handlebar bag bracket. Then get a basket that attaches to that bracket, Racktime makes several. Or if you instead want a handlebar bag like an Ortlieb, there is that option instead. Keep it simple and where you can use off the shelf components like that, do that.
03-20-23, 05:40 AM
#47
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03-20-23, 01:36 PM
#48
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Not sure why everyone is so dismissive of the original poster’s thoughts. Mounting bags like this for touring has been around since the 1960s - I suggest you have a look at a Moulton for evidence. Most small wheeled bikes allow for bags or baskets to be attached that way.
If the OP is looking for something with 26” wheels, they should have a look at a Tern Eclipse, observe its luggage socket on the head tube, get a luggage truss and then clip any Rixen and Kaul compatible bag on it. Maximum load is 6kgs which is also the limit of the Klick Fix system.
If the OP is looking for something with 26” wheels, they should have a look at a Tern Eclipse, observe its luggage socket on the head tube, get a luggage truss and then clip any Rixen and Kaul compatible bag on it. Maximum load is 6kgs which is also the limit of the Klick Fix system.
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03-20-23, 02:47 PM
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Of course you could make the bike ride / fit like a Holland bike (very upright) and eliviate lower back issues but that isn't fast. The goal, if you want to ride far and fast, is a bike which allows riding in very different positions (very upright and more stretched out/lower).
How many times per hour are you sitting up and riding no-hands to alleviate your lower back pain?
03-20-23, 06:53 PM
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These are pictures that were sent to me several years ago from one of Adventure Cycling's contributors. It was the only place I could find a copy of the document. They are the results of Blackburn's weigh location tests. I'd take the results of this "experiment" with a grain of salt, because the bike was loaded with 80 lbs of sand. Very few people tour with 80 lbs. of weight on their bike.
Cropped to make it easier to read.
My wife took this picture of me on my Bianchi
I also tour on an aluminum Cannondale T2, and a Surly LHT. The Volpe is the quickest handling of the 3 bikes. While I don't ride no hands very often, none of the loaded bikes cause any problems.
Just showing off for my wife.
All the bikes are loaded the same, similar to # 4 in Blackburn's recommendation with a max of 40 lbs.
Cropped to make it easier to read.
My wife took this picture of me on my Bianchi
I also tour on an aluminum Cannondale T2, and a Surly LHT. The Volpe is the quickest handling of the 3 bikes. While I don't ride no hands very often, none of the loaded bikes cause any problems.
Just showing off for my wife.
All the bikes are loaded the same, similar to # 4 in Blackburn's recommendation with a max of 40 lbs.
Last edited by Doug64; 03-20-23 at 08:32 PM.