Racing Dan

He also thinks tubeless is no faff at all .. haha! :-)

He claims 5 min to re-wax "hands on", an obvious "lie". yeah, I timed re-lubing with Squirt. 3 min flat, including wiping the chain, cassette, jockeys and rings, and, generous back pedalling to distribute the lube. Btw, 500 km re-waxing intervals is complete BS. The chain is bone dry loong before that.

bampilot06

So I recently waxed chains on two of my bikes. One was a dumb idea, because I ride it in the rain, and it rained the first ride after I waxed it. Had to use wet wax after the ride, the rain stripped most of the wax off. I will not be re waxing the chain on that bike.

The second bike I do not nor will I ever ride in the rain. I followed strict chain cleaning instructions before waxing. The cleaning included multiple baths in mineral spirits plus a 24 hour soak. I then soaked the chain in distilled alcohol, wiped clean and hung to dry before waxing. I also cleaned my cassette, chain rings and pulleys in a similiar fashion.

The first 100 miles the drive train was relatively quiet and the chain stayed clean. I’m now shy of 300 miles chain is loud and somehow has started to get dirty.

I’m gunna take the chain off when I get home, throw it in boiling water, and then try waxing again. But as of this moment not that impressed. Before this I used rock and roll gold standard and would lube all my bikes once a week, Would take a matter of about 10 mins for 3 bikes.


I used a croc pot and bars of paraffin wax.

Mojo31

Should have used the additive I told you about.

sshakari

I have similar results around 150 miles the drive train is noisy. So for me, I wax every week & 1/2, and Im almost ready to give up. Im going to give MS speed wax a try based on Wifi post earlier. If that works, Im going to keep waxing as there is significantly less wear on the drive train.

The current recipe I use the Oz cycle method from Youtube and its not just paraffin wax. I think there is reason that these ingredients are not "melted" together and ms speed wax figured that out that is what Im hoping will make it last longer. Here is what I currently use:
* 1lb of household paraffin wax
* 5g of pure PTFE (Teflon) powder
* 1g of pure molybdenum disulfide (MoS2).

sshakari

what is the additive?

Mojo31

Trade secret, bruv.

genejockey 

SoSmellyAir

A noisier drivetrain is not necessarily one that is wearing faster. I know this sounds totally non-intuitive, and in fact, the opposite of what one would expect. But wax is a solid while lube is a liquid, so the nature of the noise is quite different between a waxed chain vs. a lubed chain. Lube becomes a black paste that silently wears the drivetrain faster than wax, which hardens and provides temporary protection.

Yeah, the problem is that these are additives which do not dissolve in the wax. Instead, the additives are suspended and so the melted liquid wax must be stirred to evenly distribute the additives.

For me, the main advantage of waxing is a clean drivetrain that is easier to clean.

Polaris OBark

The other problem is that both are an inhalation hazard. Although teflon itself is inert, the precursors are environmentally problematic.

yaw

One thing I heard in one of the videos from the ZFC guy previously discussed is that it is difficult to get a homebrew wax to perform as well as the good commercial mixes because it is not so easy to source a perfectly suitable paraffin grade and get to a wax base that sets to just the right hardness, all the various 'trade secret' friction modifiers aside.

So I don't think you did a poor cleaning job by the sounds of it but maybe the wax isn't as good as it could be. Definitely should not get dirty and require boiling water cleaning unless you rode in the wet, so maybe it sets on the softer side? And while some people go insane distances on their wax, I swap my chains every (quick calculation for old world units) 100-200miles depending on the importance of the ride and how much I crave waxing. That's overkill but I have no need to push it and prefer ideal performance.

I think MSW is cheap enough, given how long it lasts, to not worry about sourcing all the ingredients for home chemistry that may end up less effective than a formula that had more resources and revisions. Instead of using paraffin only, or some YouTube hobby recipe, I would suggest people interested in waxing get started with the MSW or Silca blends to get a baseline impression of how good wax performs.

yaw

As above, I think MSW will at least give you a baseline where you know the wax is up to scratch vs. some YouTube mix that probably stands and falls with the paraffin base you managed to source. There seems to be little to no competition from home mixes when it comes to test results at the moment, perhaps that is why there are not a ton of well regarded hot waxes out there.

On top of using MSW I would also consider rotating 2 chains, so that you can just swap a fresh one in when it gets noisy, or you hit a wet ride, and then re-wax both at once when they are both due. That will get you 3 weeks between wax dips based on your numbers, maybe a month or more if MSW also lasts longer.

Another thing I heard is that adding a drip wax that sets hard (like the Silca super secret stuff, not Smoove/Squirt which set as goo as it is a different type of emulsion and wax base) can be an effective top up with drastic noise reduction on a waxed chain that has run in a bit. I can't speak from experience here as I never saw the need for that extra step because I swap my chains earlier rather than later. Squirt type waxes are extremely good at silencing drivetrains but I would not want to have to clean that out, or have it contaminate my wax pot, so I don't consider it a compatible top up.

yaw

This does not seem to bother many people. When I started cycling and the shop recommended RockNRoll, I gave that a shot and immediately stopped using it because there is no way I am going to repeatedly expose myself to these volatile carriers over a long time. A lot of lubes and degreasers on bike shop shelves are terrible to repeatedly inhale and an environmental hazard, be it contents or containers. Likewise, inhaling fine chemical dusts, no thank you. I see no reason not to entertain alternatives to minimise these factors and collectively put pressure on the industry.

Polaris OBark

BTW, I worry about this as a chemist, not a chemophobe.

Bah Humbug

JFC people.

terrymorse 

About that PTFE stuff: it may be slippery, but it is a fluoropolymer which comes with associated “concerns”:

Given fluoropolymers’ extreme persistence; emissions associated with their production, use, and disposal; and a high likelihood for human exposure to PFAS, their production and uses should be curtailed except in cases of essential uses.

genejockey 

Bob's my brother*. He's my sons' uncle, thank you very much.

*Also my Dad, my grandfather, my nephew, and my ex-brother-in-law. But not my uncle.

tomato coupe

That explains why I always hear the phrase said as "Bob's (everybody but) your uncle."

Mojo31

You’ve been huffing PTFE, haven’t you? 😜

Hiro11

I've been immersion waxing the chains on several bikes for a while now. All of the following is opinion only. I'm using declarative sentences, but this is not because it's fact, just opinions based on my experience.

Recommendations:
1. Get a cheap, dedicated crockpot. I bought one from Amazon for $12. I wax the chains on the high setting, uncovered (note: I know people say you should use the low setting to ensure you don't overheat and break down the wax, I have not found this to be an issue if you leave it uncovered). I tie loops of string in the middle of chains and then throw three in at a time. I have rigged a way to hang the chains over the crockpot so that the excess wax just drips back into the crockpot. I break the wax bond after they cool by wrapping the chain around a small dowel and pulling it off. After mounting a new chain on a bike, a bunch of wax will flake off when first pedalling, so I do that outside. I just chuck the used chains back in the wax unless they're muddy (rare), in which case I dewax them with boiling water.
2. I recommend running a three chain rotation. Waxing ten chains is no more effort than waxing one chain so this makes everything easier. I store the chains by wrapping them in clean rags, don't store them in plastic bags as that will cause rust.
3. Buy premade wax and wax-based lube. The premade stuff is cheap and easy ($40 worth of wax will easily last a 50+ applications) and uses ideal wax and additives. A wax-based lube will allow you to extend the period between rewaxing. I use the Silca wax and Super Secret wax emulsion myself, I'm sure Molten Speed and other brands are just as good. The wax is not a lubricant, what matters are the additives. Silca uses (mostly) titanium disulfide, which is grey in color so your chains wind up looking a bit grungy.
4. I use KMC or YBN chains as the factory rust preventative these brands use is easy to remove. To prep chains, I shake them in a clear bottle with a few ounces of odorless mineral spirits two or three times and then once with isopropyl alcohol. The factory rust preventative on Shimano chains is harder to remove in my experience.
5. I use YBN quicklinks as they're cheap and can be reused several times. I don't wax the quicklinks.

Pros to waxing I've found:
1. Drivetrain stays perfecty clean. I ride a lot in dusty conditions and nothing sticks to the drivetrain as it did with wet lubes. Anything that does stick seems to flake off quickly with the wax.
2. Maintaining your drivetrain takes no time: take off the old chain, put on a new one. After you've done this a bunch of times it becomes very quick. You never need to degrease your drivetrain again. IMO, waxing is actually a time saver vs. traditional lube, especially with a three chain rotation and supplimenting with wax emulsion lubes. All of this is is particuarly valuable if you're using an electronic drivetrain as I am on two bikes.
3. A side benefit not directly caused by waxing: cleaning the rest of your bike with no chain on it is just better. You don't have a dirty chain getting your hands dirty, you can get in all the crevices more easily, you can check the function of your bottom bracket more easily etc.
4. Fixing a rear flat doesn't result in filthy hands. Also, getting a Fredmark on your calf is impossible.
5. It seems to prevent wear on the chain and drivetrain at least as well as wet lube. This is hard to judge, but the lack of dust grinding away at your drivetrain clearly makes a difference over time.

Cons to waxing:
1. Initial setup is far longer and can be expensive. Prepping the chains is an additional, messy step (again, better with KMC chains but still a pain). You need to buy a bunch of chains and quicklinks. You need to set up a crock pot. You need to buy the wax and wax emulsion supplimental lube. You need to learn a new process. Etc. Once you get a process going and a bunch of chains it's a net reduction in time and labor, but the initial hurdle is steep.
2. Waxing is not a good option if you ride in wet conditions a lot. Wax does not protect the chain from water at all, waxed chains rust quickly if you get them wet and don't meticulously dry them afterwards. Drying a waxed chain can be a pain. I never ride in the rain, but if you do I would just stick to wet lube.
3. Waxed chains run much, much louder.
4. The wax doesn't last very long. I get maybe 150-200 miles out of a chain before I either need to apply some wax emulsion or take it off to rewax.

seypat

Most honest assessment in the thread so far. 👏

phrantic09

Wet conditions are fine, you may just shorten the interval between re-waxing as it all gets washed out. I did a gravel event in early April in the rain, it wasn’t a downpour but was steady for 4.5 hours. My chain got noisy finally with 5 miles to go and just took a towel to dry off quickly. No rust anywhere.

Kapusta

The recent posts you are referring to were irrelevant to what we were actually debating (which was the content/intention of a post previous to these posts).

Since you are now simply trying to change the subject or move a goalpost (I can't tell which you are attempting, here), I no longer have an interest in the discussion.

datlas 

So you disagree with half? Which half??

Jack Tone 

I just bought a can of spray on wax lube. I'm going to clean my chain and try it. I'm looking forward to the additional two watts of power which is a significant percentage of my overall output.

tomato coupe

The wrong half, of course.