C&V road frames with modern STI/Ergo
07-17-21, 11:17 AM
#76
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07-17-21, 02:02 PM
#77
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I want you all to remain calm, but I consider STI's the most atrocious-looking component ever made. They are an abomination to the eye, and threaten to create acute gastro-intestinal illness each and every time I see them.., especially on vintage bikes. They look like a black fungus, grown from a science fiction comic book.
What makes matters worse is how inefficient they are. My first mechanic (back in early 80's) told me that the most efficient shifting systems are designed with the fewest angles that the cable has to negotiate. Also, the lateral movement of the hand is inefficient and counter-intuitive.
If I were given a bike with STI's, I would go at them and cut them diagonally at the base with a Sawz-All, and video-tape it, just to make a statement.
When I first tried them, I was shocked to see how much play there was in them.., how far the hand has to travel before the shift actually engages. My basic and most stern objection is to the ghastly looks, though. Elegance and style really do mean something.., or at least they should. There is really nothing more than I can say than this:
What makes matters worse is how inefficient they are. My first mechanic (back in early 80's) told me that the most efficient shifting systems are designed with the fewest angles that the cable has to negotiate. Also, the lateral movement of the hand is inefficient and counter-intuitive.
If I were given a bike with STI's, I would go at them and cut them diagonally at the base with a Sawz-All, and video-tape it, just to make a statement.
When I first tried them, I was shocked to see how much play there was in them.., how far the hand has to travel before the shift actually engages. My basic and most stern objection is to the ghastly looks, though. Elegance and style really do mean something.., or at least they should. There is really nothing more than I can say than this:
Last edited by himespau; 07-17-21 at 09:47 PM.
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07-17-21, 02:05 PM
#78
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For some reason the mods decided to move that thread to the early brothers forum even though the frames predate gritters and the shifters are usually not early gritters. They basically wanted to populate the new forum, so they moved a bunch of threads even though they didn't fit.
Last edited by himespau; 07-17-21 at 09:47 PM.
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07-17-21, 04:52 PM
#79
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Have I told you guys about my former one-year-only 1983 Trek 970 in the rare 64cm size? Surely I must have... 
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07-17-21, 05:22 PM
#80
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How about a 1984 Trek 720 tour bike updated with 700c wheels, Schwalbe marathon tires, and clipless pedals. The pedals have been updated since this picture to Crank Bro candy mountain bike pedals. The saddle was upgraded to a Brooks b17 narrow carved. dang maybe I need to take a new picture. This is my commuter bike now. I love looking at all these pictures.
1984 Trek 720 tour bicycle. NExus 8 speed internal hub and 700c suntour wheels
1984 Trek 720 tour bicycle. NExus 8 speed internal hub and 700c suntour wheels
Last edited by Bolo Grubb; 07-17-21 at 05:27 PM.
07-17-21, 07:25 PM
#81
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I'm sorry. I've waited many years to say this. It needed to be said.., but I am just one opinion among millions, and mine matters no more than yours or anyone else's.
If you're looking to get it off your chest, or open up a discussion, a better approach would be creating your own thread
Otherwise you've effectively just gone to a Beiber forum, and post "Beiber sux, go listen to real music", which really is just wasting everyones time
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07-17-21, 11:06 PM
#82
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Sure. But what's your goal?
If you're looking to get it off your chest, or open up a discussion, a better approach would be creating your own thread
Otherwise you've effectively just gone to a Beiber forum, and post "Beiber sux, go listen to real music", which really is just wasting everyones time
If you're looking to get it off your chest, or open up a discussion, a better approach would be creating your own thread
Otherwise you've effectively just gone to a Beiber forum, and post "Beiber sux, go listen to real music", which really is just wasting everyones time
07-17-21, 11:53 PM
#83
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Yeah, I'm neutral about Beiber. There are some songs I like, some I don't, and there's a lot of his behaviour I just don't like, so I'd never be a fan.
But I feel we are getting a bit off topic
07-18-21, 01:41 AM
#84
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Yeah, you guys need to seriously knock it off and get back to the plot. There are PMs for a reason. For everyone else, there's heretical Di2 to discuss:
Last edited by RiddleOfSteel; 07-18-21 at 01:46 AM.
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07-18-21, 01:57 AM
#85
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Unfortunately he didn't have the appropriate design on his bike to install it, and he didn't want to drill through carbon.
Do you have a build log somewhere? Would you recommend it? Have to drill much?
I'm contemplating converting my Miyata 312 to it for fun is all
07-18-21, 09:56 AM
#86
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07-18-21, 10:01 AM
#87
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This land shark has always always a killer looking bike. The paint is obviously what sets it off, but the geometry and seat stay attachment style help a lot.
07-18-21, 10:08 AM
#88
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If you dislike something, then start a thread about it. Your rant would be thread #489 about how shifting from the hoods is ugly/less efficient/unpure/blahblahblah. Point being, it's hardly a new thought and it's well shared by others.
You don't need to go piss in threads about something you dont like.
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07-18-21, 11:09 AM
#89
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I want you all to remain calm, but I consider STI's the most atrocious-looking component ever made. They are an abomination to the eye, and threaten to create acute gastro-intestinal illness each and every time I see them.., especially on vintage bikes. They look like a black fungus, grown from a science fiction comic book.
What makes matters worse is how inefficient they are. My first mechanic (back in early 80's) told me that the most efficient shifting systems are designed with the fewest angles that the cable has to negotiate. Also, the lateral movement of the hand is inefficient and counter-intuitive.
If I were given a bike with STI's, I would go at them and cut them diagonally at the base with a Sawz-All, and video-tape it, just to make a statement.
When I first tried them, I was shocked to see how much play there was in them.., how far the hand has to travel before the shift actually engages. My basic and most stern objection is to the ghastly looks, though. Elegance and style really do mean something.., or at least they should. There is really nothing more than I can say than this:
What makes matters worse is how inefficient they are. My first mechanic (back in early 80's) told me that the most efficient shifting systems are designed with the fewest angles that the cable has to negotiate. Also, the lateral movement of the hand is inefficient and counter-intuitive.
If I were given a bike with STI's, I would go at them and cut them diagonally at the base with a Sawz-All, and video-tape it, just to make a statement.
When I first tried them, I was shocked to see how much play there was in them.., how far the hand has to travel before the shift actually engages. My basic and most stern objection is to the ghastly looks, though. Elegance and style really do mean something.., or at least they should. There is really nothing more than I can say than this:
- They aren't inefficient. The extra cable bends don't make for inefficient riding. And the ability to shift out of the saddle actually is more efficient.
- Your claim that lateral hand movement is both inefficient and counter-intuitive is just baseless. Me pushing my fingers inward is natural and quite easy.
by all means- dislike them due to preferred appearance, but your other reasoning is pretty absurd and has shown to not apply to most anyone.
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07-18-21, 12:19 PM
#90
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Thank you! I ended up selling it (as a frameset) again last year. It needed a new paint job as the old was crumbling and flaking off. There was also a good bit of under-the-pain corrosion, which, if it was anything like my Medici, is a little concerning, especially on a 2875g frameset (including the headset), which is incredibly light.
Thank you! It really has great proportions, and certainly for a 66cm bike, which is difficult to do. Mr. Slawta did very well with this.
I really like Di2, and I just ran the wires externally on the frame tubing, just as discretely as possible. Shimano sells (and sold at the time) adhesive wire guides that had a provided channel for the wire (sort of a semi-circle in cross-section), flanked by adhesive strips. They came in various lengths for running on the downtube and then for derailleur routing. Came/come in white and black. I used those for a bit. Obviously it helps to have a white or black bike for the ultimate in stealthy application. For the Land Shark, I used two layers of nice clear Scotch Giftwrap tape, which is clear and thicker than the normal glazed Scotch tape we all know. Extra wire length was carefully wrapped around the base of the seat tube and secured via black electrical tape. The lower, 4-hole junction box was taped to the non-drive-side of the downtube right by the BB. Di2 battery, as you can see, was mounted aft of the bottle cage via a Shimano-provided bayonet. Clear tape for the RD wire, along the lower edge of the chain stay (just like the wire was run on the underside of the downtube--along its centerline). From the shifter/bar/stem area junction box (zip-tied to the far side of the stem), its wire down to the battery was run (and coiled) along the front brake cable before jumping to the frame.
Basically, it's a lot of planning, and coordination to obtain that really good drive-side view. Ultegra 6770, introduced after your Dura-Ace 7970, was the first implementation of the "eTubes" architecture and interface. 7970 is only compatible with itself, vs. 6770 is compatible with anything newer (programming will need to happen for some things). I sold my Ultegra Di2 but want it back some day. Prices for everything are nuts right now, so it's cables for all of us for a while, unless we find good deals on 6870 Ultegra simply because it's "a little old". Feel free to convert whatever bike to Di2 you want. For me, though, paint color and how good/deserving a frame is, have the initial say in whether I entertain Di2 or any top-end components. There are videos and instructions on how to tune (GCN has one with Si and that's super straightforward and easy to understand), and it's all on the bike, just like Campagnolo's EPS (no idea about SRAM as it's $$$$$ and I've never run it, even if it's the most C&V friendly).
I'm very fascinated by this. I bought a 7970 Di2 kit 2nd hand off eBay, and gave it to my father as a gift to upgrade one of his bikes.
Unfortunately he didn't have the appropriate design on his bike to install it, and he didn't want to drill through carbon.
Do you have a build log somewhere? Would you recommend it? Have to drill much?
I'm contemplating converting my Miyata 312 to it for fun is all
Unfortunately he didn't have the appropriate design on his bike to install it, and he didn't want to drill through carbon.
Do you have a build log somewhere? Would you recommend it? Have to drill much?
I'm contemplating converting my Miyata 312 to it for fun is all
Basically, it's a lot of planning, and coordination to obtain that really good drive-side view. Ultegra 6770, introduced after your Dura-Ace 7970, was the first implementation of the "eTubes" architecture and interface. 7970 is only compatible with itself, vs. 6770 is compatible with anything newer (programming will need to happen for some things). I sold my Ultegra Di2 but want it back some day. Prices for everything are nuts right now, so it's cables for all of us for a while, unless we find good deals on 6870 Ultegra simply because it's "a little old". Feel free to convert whatever bike to Di2 you want. For me, though, paint color and how good/deserving a frame is, have the initial say in whether I entertain Di2 or any top-end components. There are videos and instructions on how to tune (GCN has one with Si and that's super straightforward and easy to understand), and it's all on the bike, just like Campagnolo's EPS (no idea about SRAM as it's $$$$$ and I've never run it, even if it's the most C&V friendly).
07-18-21, 12:21 PM
#91
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I'll admit that I was skeptical at first about the aesthetics and performance of STI, but that was mostly because I was so used to friction shifting, usually with bar ends. First time I tried STI was on a rental bike outside of Las Vegas. Did a ride to Red Rocks with a friend, and while it took me a few blocks to figure out the system, I otherwise had no complaints. Still, I didn't like the look of cables coming out of the hoods and toward the center line of the cockpit. Enter Campy Ergo: My first systems were experiments in Shimergo back when various UK online retailers were blowing out 10-speed Campy Veloce ergo brifters for about $100 shipped with Campy cable sets. I paired those with various 8-speed Shimano drivetrains and was quickly hooked (my only complaint, as a dedicated hoods grabber, was that the thumb paddle was right where I would naturally rest my thumb, but I adapted). I also have a Campy 11 and Shimano 9 system in use; shifts like buttah. I also realized around that time that I really preferred index shifting to friction, whether with bar-ends, downtube, or brifters. That confirming click and accurate gear change provide positive feedback, and I have such systems in use from 7-speed to 11 x 2 to 12 x 1. And I was very glad that Shimano dropped those ugly cable-out-from-the-hoods design and went to under-hood cable routing a la Campagnolo.
Last edited by nlerner; 07-18-21 at 12:32 PM.
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07-18-21, 12:31 PM
#92
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Basically, it's a lot of planning, and coordination to obtain that really good drive-side view. Ultegra 6770, introduced after your Dura-Ace 7970, was the first implementation of the "eTubes" architecture and interface. 7970 is only compatible with itself, vs. 6770 is compatible with anything newer (programming will need to happen for some things). I sold my Ultegra Di2 but want it back some day. Prices for everything are nuts right now, so it's cables for all of us for a while, unless we find good deals on 6870 Ultegra simply because it's "a little old". Feel free to convert whatever bike to Di2 you want. For me, though, paint color and how good/deserving a frame is, have the initial say in whether I entertain Di2 or any top-end components. There are videos and instructions on how to tune (GCN has one with Si and that's super straightforward and easy to understand), and it's all on the bike, just like Campagnolo's EPS (no idea about SRAM as it's $$$$$ and I've never run it, even if it's the most C&V friendly).
07-18-21, 12:40 PM
#93
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I'm definitely curious about SRAM Rival AXS, which allows some degree of mix and match of components, and is inclined toward wide-range gearing for gravel. Looks like entry price is around $600 for shifters and mechs.
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07-18-21, 03:42 PM
#94
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Miss this one
Plundered this one for shifters, rear derailleur and wheels. It will be back soon in a different guise.
The commmmmuter
Without modern drivetrains I wouldn't touch vintage bikes.
Plundered this one for shifters, rear derailleur and wheels. It will be back soon in a different guise.
The commmmmuter
Without modern drivetrains I wouldn't touch vintage bikes.
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07-18-21, 04:34 PM
#95
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07-18-21, 05:17 PM
#96
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Maybe during Cino weekend, those of us who can't attend should have a C&V brifter only ride. Clipless pedals, dual pivot brakes, heresy, etc.
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85 Shogun 800 -- 86 Tommasini Super Prestige -- 92 Specialized Rockhopper -- 17 Colnago Arabesque
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09-05-21, 08:36 AM
#97
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Went a little overboard with this bike. I bought it just at the start of the pandemic with a plan to just give it a good clean and some lube (had the original 8-speed Record groupset on it) but I ended up replacing every single component apart from the frame and fork.
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09-06-21, 09:02 AM
#98
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Fantastic looking finished product! Really nice.
09-06-21, 09:17 AM
#99
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I love this idea. Where? What would you call it? How about Bizarro Chino. Maybe Anti-Chino. I am sure some good prize ideas would arise.