moth54

Yes - I especially like your point that we can only change our own actions, not those of others.

moth54

The cyclist has suffered injuries but the latest report is that the injuries are not life threatening. I agree the video certainly grabs one's attention - a person never looks so small and vulnerable, as when juxtaposed against a large truck or a semi.

njkayaker

I was merely pointing out that it was there (I wasn't suggesting you meant it wasn't visible).

Anyway, that sign is there exactly to "prevent" what happened (to avoid conflicts between right-on-red turners and pedestrians and cyclists crossing on an explicit signal fairly far from where vehicles are making the turn).

Though, the sign might be a bit hard to see and not expected.

work4bike

Anyone familiar with this intersection?

I haven't read all the posts too closely, but after looking at the video, it seems like the fault of the truck driver.

Even if a Right on Red is allowed at this intersection (giving truck driver benefit of doubt), one must come to a full stop, just like at a stop sign, the truck driver clearly did not and it seems like the car in front of the truck also didn't come to a complete stop.

I always look before crossing an intersection, even when I have the green, because most cars just simply don't come to a full stop. However, in this case that doesn't seem to make a difference in faulting the truck 100% for the accident.



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njkayaker

Look at the Google Streetview link I posted earlier.

There's a sign that says right turns are prohibited with a red light.

Yes, it's the fault of the truck driver (it appears). But that doesn't really help the cyclist much.

People should be more interested in avoiding incidents than finding fault.

The truck driver being at fault is a crappy "consolation prize" for the cyclist almost being dead.

You are supposed to do this. (No doubt, your mother told you to "look both ways".)

This seems like something the cyclist should easily have had full control in avoiding.

Paul Barnard

Bobby, we all do. It's an inescapable part of the human experience that we will, at times, err.

Leisesturm

I think this far into the thread we are beyond who is at fault 100%. You don't use that logic, by your own admission you check all intersections even when you have a green signal. So why should the cyclist that got hit take any comfort from the fact that he was 0% at fault?? The takeaway should be that all cyclists need to ride defensively. If you are ever hit it does not matter whose fault it is! Maybe for insurance purposes. I would rather not let it get to that point.

Daniel4

I hope you are not suggesting that it is not the driver's fault at all if a pedestrian or cyclist gets hit all because he should have been defensive.

Regardless, even if a collision was 0% the pedestrian's or cyclist's fault, we know from reading too many stories and articles the driver will given at worse only a fine or a warning without any charges, unless he was DUI or have a suspended licence.

79pmooney

After 30+ years of riding with its crashes, I've broken my collar bone and wrecked my shoulders enough times that swiveling my head is no longer an option. I can barely get the edge of my glasses to 90 degrees sitting in a chair. The mirror is a big asset.

I did hear my best friend's dad tell us 55 years ago that if we ever saw the side of a right turning truck in front of us, that was the end of our life. 15 years ago, I saw it. I'm here because I had an angel sitting in the passenger seat. (Two fellow cyclists lost their lives to right turning trucks in Portland later that year.

njkayaker

How is a mirror going to help you see something within +/- 45’ (or even +/- 90’) of straight ahead?

There is a small possibility that the rider could have seen the truck in a mirror but it wouldn’t have indicated that the truck was going to cross right. Also, the truck was a fair distance to the left.

I am not saying mirrors aren’t useful. But they aren’t going to let you see every hazard.

Oh, because you can’t do something doesn’t mean other people who can shouldn’t do that something.

I’d guess you have enough experience to compensate for your loss of range of motion and you are looking around (if not exactly “swiveling “) more that you are implying here.

In this case, there was a long time available to avoid the collision.

I’m not talking about any other case (especially, not any other cases I don’t have any information about).

A common way people get killed by right-turning trucks is when they filter past the truck on the right. This is very easy to avoid.

njkayaker

???

Read what you are replying to more carefully. He’s not suggesting anything like you are supposing.

I have no idea why some people are so fixated in finding fault.

It appears there was ample opportunity for the cyclist to have been defensive. Being more defensive would have protected him from the mistakes of the truck driver. The cyclist has the option of being more defensive. They don’t have the opportunity to keep the truck driver from making mistakes.

Esos1

I don't know, my first thought would've actually been to think the truck was turning. Like someone mentioned earlier, they probably just missed the yellow and felt entitled. Usually when one car does that kind of thing one or two more are likely to follow.

njkayaker

Completely irrelevant. All that you need to know is that there's a big truck crossing your path.

work4bike

I was not looking to give anyone comfort. I was simply stating how I saw the accident, period. I don't understand why so many are freaking out about pointing fault -- finding fault is part of the process of learning from others mistakes. As for the takeaway being that all cyclists should ride defensively....I pointed that out. What are we not allowed to point out fault in this forum

I'm sure the driver of the truck is thankful he has you and others to defend him against terrible people, such as myself for pointing out his failure to properly operate his vehicle



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njkayaker

It's a bit confusing but Leisesturm is agreeing with you. (He didn't say you were "looking to give anyone comfort".)

He's also saying that fixating on "finding fault" doesn't help the cyclist much. In this particular case, it appears the truck driver was 100% at fault (I provided evidence for that). But it also appears the cyclist had ample time to stop before colliding with the truck. Why did the cyclist fail to do what you appear to do regularly?

It's fine exploring the issues of fault but it really doesn't help the cyclist much. The cyclist is screwed in any case.

work4bike

No, he was complaining about me finding fault. I never "fixated" on finding fault, that was just part of my post.

The "comfort" part was concerning this quote from his post: "So why should the cyclist that got hit take any comfort from the fact that he was 0% at fault??"
I'm not looking to give out comfort.

As for the cyclist having ample time to stop before the collision, I totally agree and I said as much in my first post. So I guess that was his fault....maybe the truck driver can take solace in that

First off, I don't know if the cyclist is even a member on this website, so potentially nothing here helps him. And if he has seen this thread, than hopefully he takes seriously the recommendation of many, to look before crossing any intersection. And I'll add, don't just look for motorized vehicles; there are some roads I ride on where I have to be much more alert to other cyclists -- it's very easy to miss another cyclists when looking for a +2,000-lb. vehicle coming down the road.


I really don't understand this backlash against using the F-word. Everyone that pointed out that the cyclist should have looked before crossing is just as guilty to placing blame, they just didn't use the F-word.

Clyde1820

Three points:

1. The traffic light had changed from yellow to RED.
2. About ~one second after the red, the next two vehicles (car, then the truck) clearly ran the red light.
3. The cyclists and pedestrian didn't bother ensuring traffic had cleared; they simply watched for the green light then began moving forward into the intersection.

That'll do it, every time.

Right of way is one thing. Awaiting clear and safe conditions before making your move is something else. (A bit like "the basic speed law," which covers all eventualities above and beyond what a max-speed sign might otherwise suggest.)

njkayaker

No, he said the thread was beyond finding fault. (I established early on that the truck driver was at fault.)

He didn't say you were looking to give out comfort.

This isn't really the point. There are novice cyclists here that might find discussing what they can do to avoid a collision useful.

work4bike

Okey Dokey