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Swapping out to a lightweight frame for the purpose of hill climbing?

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Swapping out to a lightweight frame for the purpose of hill climbing?

Old 06-23-22, 10:50 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
"Perceptual Dullard" sounds like a snazzy custom user title.
Beats being a perpetual dullard for sure.
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Old 06-23-22, 02:34 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
New England simply doesn't have the climbs of the Alps and Pyrenees except the big one in NH. The one time i did that in competition, while everyone else put their 28s in back, I put it in front. (I love TA cranksets. Erector sets, yes. Flexy, yes. But you can make up anything. A 28 tooth single? Easy.) Saved weight in back (and maybe a little in front. I didn't take the FD off.) 85 teeth; 13-21. And a shorter chain.

Giovanni's tactic wouldn't have worked for me unless everyone else was overgeared. I climbed best doing a lot of standing and riding higher gears. Spinning was never my forte. Yes, I paid the price but I made "the cut" in my hardest race where losing 2 feet to the wheel in front of my would have cost me 10 minutes. I could not have stayed on in a 21 tooth cog.
Massachusetts may not have Alps or Pyrenees, but, like southern Connecticut, I imagine that it has plenty of rolling hills. And some East Coast roads are old enough to be based on deer trails and old paths, often going over rather than around abrupt steep hills.

West Rock:



New Haven's East Rock and West Rock don't attain much more that a few hundred feet of altitude, but they both (West Rock in particular) have steep enough grades to require a series of switchbacks. Pertaining to your tactic of using a higher gear for at least some climbs, my gear choice for those switchbacks back in the day, when I was a 14- or 15-year-old kid on my track bike, riding with a bunch of guys in their late teens on their Atala, Legnano, Frejus, and Peugeot road bikes, was what it was everywhere else: 51/19, or 72 inches.

I had little or no trouble keeping up on the climbs (to the annoyance of at least some of those guys), but downhills through the switchbacks were tough.

Not that any of us were national calibre riders (whatever that meant around 1964 and 1965, when there were probably fewer than 1,500 of us racers in the whole country). (Actually, I did win a criterium as an intermediate where the guy who came in second was wearing the Stars and Stripes jersey, but he had just clipped his pedal in the last corner, so it doesn't really count.) The Yale guys, especially Larry Bauer and Wade Halabi, both well known to John Allis and the other Boston-area riders, were in another class.

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Old 06-23-22, 06:19 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
Yes, I paid the price but I made "the cut" in my hardest race where losing 2 feet to the wheel in front of my would have cost me 10 minutes.
That's a pretty slow pace.
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Old 06-24-22, 01:53 AM
  #54  
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As mentioned already, the current setup at 17-18lbs is already pretty good for road riding. That weight for your gravel bike is already lighter than or equal to a couple of my dedicated road bikes. To me, a road bike any lighter is getting into weight weenie territory (which may be your goal). To lose significant weight you're going to need a sub-1kg frame, one that may not accommodate the wide road tires that you're used to riding now. One possibility is to upgrade the wheels (not sure what you're currently riding now), in addition to switching to carbon bar/stem on the current frame. But that's only worthwhile if you feel the current geometry is suitable for the road riding that you plan to do.
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Old 06-24-22, 02:33 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
That's a pretty slow pace.
Well, he did say that he used higher low-end gearing to go faster, which is a strategy that works best when you're trying to go slow.
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Old 06-24-22, 04:29 AM
  #56  
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Don't you need a team car following you in order to make the swap?
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Old 06-24-22, 02:32 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by t2p View Post
I would not lug full water bottle(s) up a long steep climb if I could fill them not long after the climb
before we hit the base of long / steep climbs and knew there was a spot where we could fill water bottles - we often emptied our water bottles
The USA is a big place... The OP is in SoCal ( as am I) and most of the serious climbs - 4+ to 12+ miles takes up to places where there is NO water!
And it's Hot with often an Oppressively strong sun. Maybe then you can glide back down, but that still takes some time. Rides around here, like Gibraltar, take upwards of 45 min. or well more, depending how brutal hot it is The OP has the same situation in the San Gabriels and the Santa Monicas... Like the climbs up to Mt Baldy or the doing the Glendora Ridge/Baldy loop, or climb to Wilson Observatory...
Water is Life! I would never risk going without water, 2 full bottles, up a long climb. Usually at least half gets drunk, sometimes all. Especially if you're putting out the wattage.
17-18 lbs before water and gels is pretty good... One could lose some extra weight by going with lower profile, lightweight wheels, and that would be 'felt' in the climb.
... nothing like shedding the extra lbs to get a bit more watts/kg.
finding your optimum climbing gears and cadence is key - and what you match your gearing to, a lot of which depends on what kind of gradients you'll hit and their lengths. If you hit the wall on a 12%er, there's no amount of weight savings which will help you gitty-up... at the same time carrying a cassette range of 11-48 may be a big weight penalty. The right inner ring will allow you to use lighter cassettes and still have your low gear cake,, even if it means a 'gap' in the very mid-range...
anyway, we all have 'spent' the dosh to do the lightweight thing, and find out mostly it's not worth it. If you have 12 lbs to easy lose, that's the way.
Ride On
Yuri

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Old 06-25-22, 05:44 PM
  #58  
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I love to do hills, and I've got a very light frame/bike.
2019 Emonda SLR/Sram Red22 eTap, XXX wheels etc.
Under 13.5 lbs with pedals/cages etc.
It definitely makes a difference on hills, but only steep hills & hill climb races (specifically the Mt. Washington Auto Road Bicycle Hillclimb), for that I get the bike to ~12 lbs.
On rollers & shorter hills with gradients under 5% I can't feel much of a difference from my Domane SLR, which weighs ~18 lbs.
In fact, the Domane feels faster on flatter roads because it's more aero (also has Aeolus 51 wheels vs XXX2's) than the Emonda.

So, just swapping a frame will not likely make much of a difference.
If you really want a good hill-climbing bike, you need everything to be light, and have the bike well under 15 lbs.
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Old 06-25-22, 06:04 PM
  #59  
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Thanks for all the opinions so far. I'm probably going to hold off on doing a lightweight bike setup. I think it'd be better if I just build a new bike from the ground up. I think I could see myself building a minimalist bike specifically for climbing, while using my other bikes for general riding and fitness. I don't think it'd be worth swapping my current components unless I go full weight weenie with careful planning.
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Old 06-25-22, 06:09 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by jonathanf2 View Post
I don't think it'd be worth swapping my current components unless I go full weight weenie with careful planning.
Let me get you started:

Amazon.com : Zefal Pulse L2 Bottle Cage, Black : Sports & Outdoors

18 g, only $21.
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Old 06-25-22, 06:09 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by cyclezen View Post
The USA is a big place... The OP is in SoCal ( as am I) and most of the serious climbs - 4+ to 12+ miles takes up to places where there is NO water!
And it's Hot with often an Oppressively strong sun. Maybe then you can glide back down, but that still takes some time. Rides around here, like Gibraltar, take upwards of 45 min. or well more, depending how brutal hot it is The OP has the same situation in the San Gabriels and the Santa Monicas... Like the climbs up to Mt Baldy or the doing the Glendora Ridge/Baldy loop, or climb to Wilson Observatory...
Water is Life! I would never risk going without water, 2 full bottles, up a long climb. Usually at least half gets drunk, sometimes all. Especially if you're putting out the wattage.
17-18 lbs before water and gels is pretty good... One could lose some extra weight by going with lower profile, lightweight wheels, and that would be 'felt' in the climb.
... nothing like shedding the extra lbs to get a bit more watts/kg.
finding your optimum climbing gears and cadence is key - and what you match your gearing to, a lot of which depends on what kind of gradients you'll hit and their lengths. If you hit the wall on a 12%er, there's no amount of weight savings which will help you gitty-up... at the same time carrying a cassette range of 11-48 may be a big weight penalty. The right inner ring will allow you to use lighter cassettes and still have your low gear cake,, even if it means a 'gap' in the very mid-range...
anyway, we all have 'spent' the dosh to do the lightweight thing, and find out mostly it's not worth it. If you have 12 lbs to easy lose, that's the way.
Ride On
Yuri
I saw so many cyclists out this morning, I'm pretty sure it hit 100 degrees. When I was out riding I went through my first bottle quickly, no way I could just climb and toss my water out! Also you're right about the cassette sizing. I'm pretty comfortable staying with an 11-32t for road hills. Even with my gravel bike which I take up the Angeles Crest mountain range, I've been downsizing my cassette just to minimize weight.
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Old 06-25-22, 07:51 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by jonathanf2 View Post
I saw so many cyclists out this morning, I'm pretty sure it hit 100 degrees. When I was out riding I went through my first bottle quickly, no way I could just climb and toss my water out! Also you're right about the cassette sizing. I'm pretty comfortable staying with an 11-32t for road hills. Even with my gravel bike which I take up the Angeles Crest mountain range, I've been downsizing my cassette just to minimize weight.
I rode with a friend this morning from Chatsworth to Thousand Oaks and back. We saw some riders but way fewer than a normal Saturday. Only saw 2 large groups.
I drank 5 large bottles and a 20oz soda. Drank several glasses of water when I got home. It hasn't really got hot yet. You know, so hot you can't sleep, so hot that it's awful at 8:00 am.
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Old 06-26-22, 11:39 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by SoSmellyAir View Post
It says 8 grams. But the kitchen scale says 5-6g

It comes with aluminum bolts though. I don't believe in aluminum bolts. So I installed mine with Ti bolts from an outfit in Texas.
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Old 06-26-22, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by base2 View Post
I don't believe in aluminum bolts.
I've seen them -- they exist.
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Old 06-26-22, 03:43 PM
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CarbonWorks - Produkte

5 g for untreated surface or 8 g for plastic coated version, either of which is 112,50 euros, or about $120!
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Old 06-30-22, 02:18 PM
  #66  
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In your situation I would first try using narrower tires. When I have noticed a big difference is with stiffer frames so more of my pedal energy gets to the rear cogs and moving the bike forward. Frame geometry also plays a role as with the specialized bike frames for hills. The endurance type frame is a great general purpose one and more comfortable over long distances but does entail some compromises in terms of performance.

A lighter bike can be accelerated faster with its reduced weight but for general riding I cannot see the advantage as compared to other aspects of the bike and the rider.
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Old 07-01-22, 08:47 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by zandoval View Post
Got my ridding gear on...
Pre-flight Check List is done...
RATS!
Gotta go inside and make a deposit...
Leaving the Loo and readjusting my Helmet and Gear I realize...
I just lightened my load by at least a half pound or more....
Happy Happy... Joy Joy...
Timing is everything!
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Old 07-01-22, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by SoSmellyAir View Post
CarbonWorks - Produkte

5 g for untreated surface or 8 g for plastic coated version, either of which is 112,50 euros, or about $120!
i have the 8g version on my aethos. bought two a year or two ago, one broke, one still alive.

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Old 07-01-22, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mschwett View Post
i have the 8g version on my aethos. bought two a year or two ago, one broke, one still alive.
The one that broke, how and where did it break?

You are now stronger than you were two years ago, you can afford an extra 10 g per cage.
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Old 07-01-22, 02:53 PM
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sometimes you swap out to the lightweight city bike for hill climbing
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Old 07-01-22, 03:23 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Fredo76 View Post
Timing is everything!
That's why I don't do early morning rides. Gotta drink that coffee first to "lighten" up my day!
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Old 07-01-22, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by mschwett View Post
i have the 8g version on my aethos. bought two a year or two ago, one broke, one still alive.

That would never work or hold up on Santa Barbara County rds... LOL!
Although the recent work from 'infrastructure' funding has given us a few nice surprises !
Ride On
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Old 07-01-22, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by SoSmellyAir View Post
The one that broke, how and where did it break?

You are now stronger than you were two years ago, you can afford an extra 10 g per cage.
tube partially cracked on the most-outward facing curved side, it stayed together but flexed a lot and wasn’t stable any more. may have taken a small hit from the side while the bike was not being ridden.

they’re light but also look really cool, goes nicely with the bike. i don’t ride with a bottle often or i’d definitely go a little heavier 😂😂😂
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Old 07-02-22, 10:10 AM
  #74  
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I have both a very light climbing bike and a moderately priced endurance road bike which is a few pounds heavier. The climbing bike is a Ridley Helium SLX with rim brakes and carbon wheels, it's very light snd especially designed as a bike for professional cyclists attacking difficult climbs. The endurance bike is Canyon Endurace SL with disc brakes and alloy rims.

While climbs are very slightly faster on the Ridley, average speeds over a hilly 40 mile ride are less than 1 mph faster on the lighter climbing bike.

It's an improvement, but not that large of a speed difference. Since I don't race and don't try to keep pace with faster groups, the actual benefit isn't much. I enjoy the feel of the climbing bike, but it's mostly a psychological boost.
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