Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

Measuring hill difficulty

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Measuring hill difficulty

Old 09-16-22, 02:49 PM
  #26  
livedarklions
Tragically Ignorant
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,094 Times in 5,053 Posts
Originally Posted by Pratt
My method is to ride them.

Might be more fun to roll bowling balls down them, but maybe that's just me.
livedarklions is offline  
Likes For livedarklions:
Old 09-17-22, 12:17 AM
  #27  
terrymorse 
climber has-been
 
terrymorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 7,002

Bikes: Scott Addict R1, Felt Z1

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3335 Post(s)
Liked 3,435 Times in 1,737 Posts
I haven’t seen anyone mention here the climb categories as calculated in Strava:

https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/...Categorization
__________________
Ride, Rest, Repeat. ROUVY: terrymorse


terrymorse is offline  
Likes For terrymorse:
Old 09-17-22, 12:50 AM
  #28  
diphthong
Senior Member
 
diphthong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: insane diego, california
Posts: 8,287

Bikes: 85 pinarello treviso steel, 88 nishiki olympic steel. 95 look kg 131 carbon, 11 trek madone 5.2 carbon

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1619 Post(s)
Liked 3,087 Times in 1,670 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions
Here's my classification system:
A. Stuff I can do easily
B. Stuff I can do but kind of hard, still fun
C. Stuff I can do but miserable
D. Stuff I can't do.
E. Stuff I really, really can't do.

TBH, I really hate steep descent more than I hate steep climbing. The roads and my eyes are both getting worse.
agreed. don't mind the ridiculous climbs of whatever length. the descents down the same extreme grade once it gets over 6-7% for me are just to be avoided if possible. no fun. now a 3.5-6% grade descent,
can generally pull off the descent, even if technical, by using all of the road/sitting up/opening up the full zip jersey without braking. that is much more exciting and challenging than descending a steep grade while riding
the brakes-to me anyway. i don't go over 40 mph anymore. those days are long gone.

Last edited by diphthong; 09-17-22 at 12:56 AM.
diphthong is offline  
Likes For diphthong:
Old 09-18-22, 06:41 PM
  #29  
CoogansBluff
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 229
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 176 Post(s)
Liked 57 Times in 36 Posts
Originally Posted by terrymorse
I haven’t seen anyone mention here the climb categories as calculated in Strava:

https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/...Categorization
Thanks. Here's the gist of it ...

Determining Climb Categories

A segment can be categorized as a climb on Strava if it meets the following criteria:
  • The average gradient is at least 3.0%
  • The segment distance is at least 300 meters.
  • The length of the climb (in meters) multiplied by the grade of the climb is greater than 8,000.
You will see that a segment is categorized by the number on both the segment page and on the list of segments on your activity page. The categories are broken down as follows:
  • Cat 4 > 8000
  • Cat 3 > 16000
  • Cat 2 > 32000
  • Cat 1 > 64000
  • HC (Hors Categorie) > 80000
CoogansBluff is offline  
Old 09-19-22, 12:09 AM
  #30  
cyclezen
OM boy
 
cyclezen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Goleta CA
Posts: 4,340

Bikes: a bunch

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 502 Post(s)
Liked 623 Times in 425 Posts
Originally Posted by rsbob
This thread is a mediocre place for a nagging question about hills. Is it better to attack the beginning incline of a hill to increase initial momentum or just find a comfortable pace you can ride the entire hill. For instance, I am thinking 5% for a mile.

I usually will take a hard run a the start of a longish hill but to me it seems like a waste of energy without any real gain. Correct?

And back to the thread… time X distance x power (or heart rate) is a nice lame way to calculate.
Run at an uphill longer than you can 'power' up and over usually finds me then flagging for the remainder of any steep grade.
I think the question is do 'comfortable' or do 'suffer' (with strength). Again, for uphills longer than you can punch over (which sometimes is still fairly long).
1 mile w avg of 5% ish (means some sections steeper).
I usually pick the 'suffer' with strength. It's a visual thing (if I'm not familiar with the climb/hill). If I can see a fairly steady grade ahead, I'll try to keep close to, but below, my AT Heart rate, and if I have a gear I can do at least 70-75 ish rpm. If I see a sharp rise ahead, I judge the grade increase, bring the HR down to give some headroom for increased effort, make a good guess on gearing.
I'm not sure what the definition for 'comfortable climb' is, so I don' think I've ever done that. There doesn't seem any way to do 10%+ grade as 'comfortable'.
If I fall below 70 rpm, I'll get out of the saddle more often, to keep momentum and rhythm up. If I go over 80, I'll drop into a bigger gear.
If the % grade lowers a bit, I'll find a gear which can keep me at 75 - that's my longer term, best/optimum balance between aerobic and power.
5-6% is a tough spot. It's not that steep that gearing choice is critical, but it's also not a grade that won; punish you, if you get too enthusiastic.
anyway, so much depends on your state, when you reach an uphill/climb.
Ride On
Yuri

Last edited by cyclezen; 09-19-22 at 12:13 AM.
cyclezen is offline  
Likes For cyclezen:
Old 09-19-22, 11:03 AM
  #31  
cyclezen
OM boy
 
cyclezen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Goleta CA
Posts: 4,340

Bikes: a bunch

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 502 Post(s)
Liked 623 Times in 425 Posts
Just noted to myself, because of another thread on climbing, the key, the importance of mind set...
We all speak of cycling hard, at our highest effort/level as a form of 'suffering', and that is true, to some extent.
but thinking about it and how I am actually 'feeling' in the moment of hardest effort. I'm not really thinking about the 'suffering'.
In the moment I'm trying to find/develop the 'determination' to keep it going or to find 'more' in myself. When the 'Determination' collapses, so do I.
IE - watching races, we often see a rider/riders out front, fighting mightily to stay in front, but after long, extended DETERMINED effort, they are caught by a strong chasing group.
Often they are caught and passed, and often that same rider/riders fall off the back of the catching group - lose of determination...
Sometimes the caught riders join onto the passing group ... continued determination...
I don;t think 'Determination' can take anyone above their potential, but it does take you to the best of your potential. Without Determination, I don;t think we can get close to our potential. In climbing or anything. (Reminded of that on yesterday's group ride...)
Ride On
Yuri
cyclezen is offline  
Old 09-19-22, 11:12 AM
  #32  
blacknbluebikes 
Senior Member
 
blacknbluebikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: NJ, USA
Posts: 1,275

Bikes: two blacks, a blue and a white.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 441 Post(s)
Liked 838 Times in 406 Posts
"Hill difficulty" is a concept that *has to* be relative only to oneself - hard for me may not be hard for you, big dog. So, I'd say that Joules delivered is a good measure representing the work done to get my sorry batoomba from trough to crest, assuming I will apply a fairly consistent effort.
blacknbluebikes is offline  
Old 09-19-22, 12:27 PM
  #33  
Broctoon
Super-duper Genius
 
Broctoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Muskrat Springs, Utah
Posts: 1,713
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 768 Post(s)
Liked 983 Times in 508 Posts
Originally Posted by cyclezen
Just noted to myself, because of another thread on climbing, the key, the importance of mind set...
I don;t think 'Determination' can take anyone above their potential, but it does take you to the best of your potential. Without Determination, I don;t think we can get close to our potential. In climbing or anything.
This is so true. Strenuous activities like biking and running have a psychological component that is as important as the physical. Physical conditioning can become a limiting factor, but more often it is the athlete's mental determination (or lack thereof) that sets the limit. How badly do you want to pass the guy ahead of you, achieve a five minute mile, or climb the mountain pass ahead without stopping to rest? Are you more averse to pain, or to settling for a slower pace? Are you truly convinced that a max effort over a given length of time will be worth it and will not kill you? At efforts approaching our max physical capability, mental determination makes a world of difference, and it often becomes the deciding factor in a race or an individual challenge.
Broctoon is offline  
Likes For Broctoon:
Old 09-21-22, 08:11 AM
  #34  
prj71
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: North Central Wisconsin
Posts: 4,598
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2964 Post(s)
Liked 1,163 Times in 760 Posts
Originally Posted by terrymorse
I haven’t seen anyone mention here the climb categories as calculated in Strava:

https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/...Categorization
I don't see that in my Strava. Must be a paid feature for premium.
prj71 is offline  
Old 09-21-22, 10:30 AM
  #35  
terrymorse 
climber has-been
 
terrymorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 7,002

Bikes: Scott Addict R1, Felt Z1

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3335 Post(s)
Liked 3,435 Times in 1,737 Posts
Originally Posted by prj71
I don't see that [climb categories] in my Strava. Must be a paid feature for premium.
I think it's available without a subscription, but it only works on segments. Any segment that's cat 4 or higher will be marked with its category.

Check out the "Segment Explore" feature, in a browser:



__________________
Ride, Rest, Repeat. ROUVY: terrymorse


terrymorse is offline  
Old 09-21-22, 01:53 PM
  #36  
prj71
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: North Central Wisconsin
Posts: 4,598
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2964 Post(s)
Liked 1,163 Times in 760 Posts
OK. I never use anything but the app. But I see that now in the browser version.
prj71 is offline  
Old 09-27-22, 12:18 PM
  #37  
autonomy
Senior Member
 
autonomy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Boston Roads
Posts: 978

Bikes: 2012 Canondale Synapse 105, 2017 REI Co-Op ADV 3.1

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 507 Post(s)
Liked 237 Times in 133 Posts
Even the same hill can be measured in two different ways. Here's the elevation profile of a local 'hill' if you were to ride it in the north-south direction:

It would be a completely different hill if you were to reverse the route and go south-north! This hill is 2 different climbs.
#1 most obvious statement, is that if you go north-south (left to right on the elevation profile), you are starting at a much lower elevation and have way more vertical gain!
#2 is that for the north-south direction even if you were to start at the same elevation (1215ft), the grade is much steeper - the south-north direction (right to left) is longer but gentler
#3 is that the south-north direction is not only gentler, but includes a bit of flat and even slight downhill, which gives you a chance to rest
autonomy is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.