Full carbon saddle: can I hang my bike velodrome style?
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Full carbon saddle: can I hang my bike velodrome style?
Not really a mechanics question, more of a storage question. I hang my bikes from my garage ceiling rack by hooking the nose of the saddle over a hanging hook. This is the same concept as hanging the bike by the nose of the saddle on an A-frame at the velodrome (or bike festival). Sometimes the bike is hung right at the nose and sometimes I set the hook on the rails section.
I recently picked up a full carbon saddle to try (the saddle and rails are all carbon). The saddle is really light and certainly feels strong, but now I wonder whether I should still be hanging it by the nose of the saddle anymore. Haven't installed the saddle yet. If I can't hang like I currently do I'll need to clear out garage wall space. Any thoughts?
I recently picked up a full carbon saddle to try (the saddle and rails are all carbon). The saddle is really light and certainly feels strong, but now I wonder whether I should still be hanging it by the nose of the saddle anymore. Haven't installed the saddle yet. If I can't hang like I currently do I'll need to clear out garage wall space. Any thoughts?
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Reach under the nose and lift the bike, feeling for any movement. Odds are that it would still be solid if you pushed the frame down with your other hand.
The only point of concern might be how the nose attached to the rails, but I can't imagine any design that depended on your weight to hold the top down.
However, depending on the specific design of your saddle, you might want to pad or wrap whatever you're hanging from to prevent scratches or nicks to the saddle.
The only point of concern might be how the nose attached to the rails, but I can't imagine any design that depended on your weight to hold the top down.
However, depending on the specific design of your saddle, you might want to pad or wrap whatever you're hanging from to prevent scratches or nicks to the saddle.
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Can you use the same hooks (or maybe install some different ones) and simply hang the bikes by their wheels? That is definitely safe.
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Probably 10 years ago or so I had the only carbon road saddle I have loved that had rails loosen in the sockets. I think FB's advise wise and if you did have a problem I used a fiberglass repair kit resin applied at the sockets which were certainly ugly but hidden and worked well for many miles until being passed on to a son-in-law who still has it.
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Totally agree with FBinNY. Just protect the CF from scratches and chips and if it holds your weight, then it certainly can hold just the bike.
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How much do you weigh? How much does your bike weigh? There's your answer.
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Good suggestion. Right now each bike hangs by a single hook at the saddle and at equilibrium, allows my car's hood to fit just underneath the bike. I don't think I could get a second hook up there to support both wheels and still have it hang in a way that lets me park my car under the bikes.
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That was my first thought but after considering where the masses are supported I don't think this solves it. Essentially the mass of the bike will be supported by two points underneath the saddle, either at the tip of the nose before the rails, or on the rails, by a metal hook that is less than 1cm in diameter. I understand that saddle rails can be clamped quite hard but that force is spread evenly across a slightly larger clamping area. It should still hold but the fact that the rails are carbon is making me act with more caution.
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Thanks to those who chimed in. There were some good suggestions. I am going to do some kind of protective wrap on either the hanger hook or the carbon rails, and give it a go.
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That was my first thought but after considering where the masses are supported I don't think this solves it. Essentially the mass of the bike will be supported by two points underneath the saddle, either at the tip of the nose before the rails, or on the rails, by a metal hook that is less than 1cm in diameter. I understand that saddle rails can be clamped quite hard but that force is spread evenly across a slightly larger clamping area. It should still hold but the fact that the rails are carbon is making me act with more caution.
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I'd be concerned with scratches on the undersides of the rails. Easy fix - I'd tear a narrow strips of duct tape, apply it along the under sides of each rail where the contact will be, then wrap tightly with electrical tape. Duct tape is now going nowhere and black on black will barely show.
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I have an AX-Lightness saddle that specifically says in the manual to not hang the bike by the saddle.
That saddle is mounted to a Darimo seatpost with very specific saddle clamping instructions. Darimo also specifically states in the owners manual to not clamp the seat post in a work stand. Even though it was the reinforced model, the one & only time I gently clamped it in the work stand yielded curious "witness marks." I'll not be doing that again.
The saddle & seat post are installed in an ultralight, triple butted steel frame that good sense says to never, ever clamp...I even utilized a "not to exceed" 4nm torque value to avoid the risk of crushing the seat tube. (Nobody told me to do that, but the tubing is paper thin & stupid expensive. So cut me some slack. )
My advice to the OP is to consult with the saddles manufacturer. High end components tend to be ultra-engineered to be fit only for its intended use & nothing more.
That saddle is mounted to a Darimo seatpost with very specific saddle clamping instructions. Darimo also specifically states in the owners manual to not clamp the seat post in a work stand. Even though it was the reinforced model, the one & only time I gently clamped it in the work stand yielded curious "witness marks." I'll not be doing that again.
The saddle & seat post are installed in an ultralight, triple butted steel frame that good sense says to never, ever clamp...I even utilized a "not to exceed" 4nm torque value to avoid the risk of crushing the seat tube. (Nobody told me to do that, but the tubing is paper thin & stupid expensive. So cut me some slack. )
My advice to the OP is to consult with the saddles manufacturer. High end components tend to be ultra-engineered to be fit only for its intended use & nothing more.
Last edited by base2; 09-19-22 at 10:20 PM.
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You obviously need to upgrade your bars, stem and wheelset so less weight stresses the rails. Might even call for a new groupset.
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.....Darimo also specifically states in the owners manual to not clamp the seat post in a work stand. Even though it was the reinforced model, the one & only time I gently clamped it in the work stand yielded curious "witness marks." I'll not be doing that again......
My advice to the OP is to consult with the saddles manufacturer. High end components tend to be ultra-engineered to be fit only for its intended use & nothing more.
The OPs decision isn't about structure, but he might care about cosmetics.
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This is interesting, right? A 20lb bike on a 1ft lever (for simplicity) exerts 20 ft-lbs of force, which is like 27 Nms. Seems like that could be a little high for carbon rails? I dunno.
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Hanging your bikes up is disrespectful to them. It is a form of torture, or BD/SM. Also, don't crowd them by putting your car in the garage. Ideally, the bikes should be inside, in a temperature-controlled room with a sealed, argon atmosphere, but at the very least, the bikes should have free reign of the garage. Store them upright, and every six hours, turn their wheels 90° counter-clockwise, so that the tire rubber doesn't distort, and the sealant (if you run tubeless) doesn't pool and harden in one spot.
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This is getting rediculous. Even by bike forum standards.
We have people worried about a saddle somehow getting damaged while holding up a 20 lb bicycle. Maybe it would help if we turned the question around and looked at it from the other direction.
So ------- Would you bet your ass on a saddle that you didn't trust to support a 20 lb bicycle?
We have people worried about a saddle somehow getting damaged while holding up a 20 lb bicycle. Maybe it would help if we turned the question around and looked at it from the other direction.
So ------- Would you bet your ass on a saddle that you didn't trust to support a 20 lb bicycle?
Last edited by FBinNY; 09-20-22 at 12:12 AM.
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FBinNY not sure how it's ridiculous? At a high level I already agree with you, and it benefits me if you're correct. There's been enough discussion and experiences from others to warrant my worries, and again I think some of the suggestions are quite sensible.
I know I've omitted some information but let's say I've got a 20lb bike hanging off the saddle, and the saddle is hung to the garage roof by a metal hook on the carbon rails. I park my car under the bike and I do lightly bump it every time I drive in to park (small garage).
So I don't think anyone is doubting your physical assertion that a saddle should support the bike (I've been doing this for years, after all, although I did throw in a hypothetical jest about the clamping force for carbon rails), but the failure risk comes from the other factors surrounding this use case like might the carbon get damaged.
I know I've omitted some information but let's say I've got a 20lb bike hanging off the saddle, and the saddle is hung to the garage roof by a metal hook on the carbon rails. I park my car under the bike and I do lightly bump it every time I drive in to park (small garage).
So I don't think anyone is doubting your physical assertion that a saddle should support the bike (I've been doing this for years, after all, although I did throw in a hypothetical jest about the clamping force for carbon rails), but the failure risk comes from the other factors surrounding this use case like might the carbon get damaged.
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FBinNY not sure how it's ridiculous? At a high level I already agree with you, and it benefits me if you're correct. There's been enough discussion and experiences from others to warrant my worries, and again I think some of the suggestions are quite sensible.
I know I've omitted some information but let's say I've got a 20lb bike hanging off the saddle, .
I know I've omitted some information but let's say I've got a 20lb bike hanging off the saddle, .
Every time we get on a bicycle we are betting our asses on that bicycle, both literally and figuratively.
We all ride differently and under different conditions but for my part I have exceeded 60MPH on descents, ridden pavements so bad that SUV drivers were doing 10MPH or less, been in heavy traffic congestion with very little room to spare, been caught in unbelievable downpours and the occasional flood, and once rode for over 10 miles constantly eyeballing a tornado on a parallel course.
If I couldn't trust my bicycle I couldn't be comfortable riding it, and I'd give up the sport entirely. So I only bet my ass on stuff I trust.
You've added information since, including bumping with your car but that's all secondary. Other than concerns about cosmetics which you were advised about early on, the rest is all up to your judgment and only you know exactly what is happening.
I'm not you, but in your shoes I'd be more focused on avoiding hitting the bike with my car each time, then about the saddle supporting the bike.
Last edited by FBinNY; 09-20-22 at 01:11 AM.
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^This^ It's just a ridiculous thing to worry about. We hang electric assist mtbs by the saddle all day every day at the shop. Some with carbon rail saddles. Not one problem...ever.
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