MtlClimb

My R&M Load 60 is on order (chose the Rohloff option with GX tires for all-year Montreal riding) but now I'm looking at various ways of mounting my phone, in addition to the Bosch screen. I've decided I wanted the phone centrally mounted so I'll be mounting it on the vertical top tube (which holds the handlebars intersects) using some RAM mounts and a Quad Lock ball mount. It is the vertical tube just below the Bosch display, the top part of the height-adjustable tube. I was going to post an image but I couldn't since I am a new member.

For R&M Load owners, do you know what the diameter of this top tube is? I've been looking at various reviews but can't quite find out. What do you even call this? Handlebar stem top tube?

Thank you in advance!
E

veganbikes

Maybe grab a photo and circle the part you are trying to mount to. (You will want to be interested in bikes to do so because we require 10 posts in the forums before you can post pics but that is easy around here if you enjoy bikes). Also once you get to 10 posts you can send the serial number over and I can check parts spec on their dealer page for you.

I probably wouldn't want to mount the phone that close in (if it is where I think you are trying to mount) and would want something that sticks out a bit if I plan on using the phone. Unless you have a new Nyon display I might consider going for the Bosch Smartphone hub which would be a display with your phone and is a neat option for those super connected. If you already have the new Nyon then I would do the Quad lock out front mount and be happier. Though if you are using the phone for navigation, just go for the Nyon it has turn by turn navigation and is kind of like a smartphone. However I don't really need my phone while riding, I will set a playlist to my speaker and throw it in the pocket and really not worry about it. Though I hate using the phone while I am riding.

I have a Supercharger2 Rohloff myself and love it but dislike their stem and bar combo they have a ridiculously long clamping area which makes replacing the bars not possible without removing the stem and that makes the front end cable situation a bit messier but it is what it is. I want a Load 60 Rohloff but don't carry nearly enough cargo and no kids to justify owning that but it is cool and would be even cooler if I could do two 625wh batteries underneath the cargo box.

MtlClimb

I actually took a screenshot from Propel’s video of the Load 60 and circled the part I was trying to mount it to. However, this is only my 2nd post so it still wouldn’t let me upload lol maybe a few more replies.

So it wouldn’t be mounted vertically flat on the bar. It would be mounted with a RAM bar mount to a 6” extender that takes a ball head Quad Lock mount with a vibration dampener. So the phone (in theory) would be diagonally facing me. My issue with the Bosch Nyon is the turn-by-turn is much much slower than Google Maps and I like the dynamic nature of Google Maps on my phone (I can add a stop, remove a stop, get suggestions on faster routes, get notifications of accidents, etc).

My original question of finding the diameter is that the RAM bar mount has different sizes. I think the Large would be my fit (should fit a diameter of 1.25” to 1.5” bar). So hopefully that will work.

I’m looking forward to my Load 60 Rohloff. I got the dual batteries as well but got the basic Intuvia display since these screens get outdated fast anyway and I upgrade my phone every year. Unfortunately you can’t get the smartphone hub with the Rohloff or that would’ve been my option. I have a kid myself but really the Load will be used for my day-to-day errands. Currently I’m getting by with a Tern Vektron which gets packed to the gills when doing groceries, etc. A real beast for a folding bike with 20” wheels!

veganbikes

Post around, get to know people and you will have 10 posts no problem. Really want to confirm because once I know exactly what you need I can measure with some calipers down at the shop.

Ahhh yes, that makes sense, the Smartphone Hub is not e-shift compatible for some dumb reason. I love my Nyon though sure maybe not as good as the great greasy god googles but it works fine for what I need it for so far.

You will have fun on it and Intuvia isn't terrible but not what I want with Rohloff, Kiox, Nyon or no thanks. That is my personal preference though and has no bearing on you but having sold a bunch I am having people wanting to upgrade.

MtlClimb

Yeah, I know what you mean. With the Intuvia, it kind of doesn’t match the super high-tech specs of the bike (gates belt drive, Rohloff, dual suspension, super bright lights, etc.). However, I was actually thinking the Intuvia might work better with winter riding as it can get pretty cold up here (usually around -20 C or around -4 F typically during late Dec, Jan and Feb). I’m thinking the lower the tech, the better when it comes to screen? And with my phone, I could always just pocket it on those super cold days or put it in a cozy.

veganbikes

I don't know that either one will be better in the cold, the Nyon is too new to have any cold weather testing in real time at least for our shop. The Intuvia has not had problems yet as far as I have seen on any customers but knowing Bosch I doubt any of them would really have problems.

MtlClimb

Yeah, I have the same thoughts as Intuvia and Bosch. When it gets below -20C I doubt I will take the Load out anyway and just find an alternative mode of transport (dust out the Subaru Forester, etc. lol)

Alright. I believe after this post, I should be able to send an image. Thanks for your patience!

veganbikes

Yeah there are certain times that biking is not close to fun and more of a hassle best to leave it inside.

In terms of images you need 10 posts which is why I encourage those interested in bicycles to actually get up to and pass that mark by posting in different threads and such. There is a utility/cargo subforum as well as a general cycling subforum and many many others post around engage some fun discussions and soon you will have enough to post and by that point you will have had enough fun you won't want to leave for a while.

hydrocarbon

I have the 60 and the 75; I'll go measure and let you know.
What I normally use is mounting systems with stretchy rubber straps that adapt to whatever diameter for holding stuff. You can use hose clamps or whatever too, but it's nice to be able to take things on and off easily without tools and without messing up the finish.

MtlClimb

Hey thanks hydrocarbon ! That would be great. I’m with you on the finish. That was one of my main concern. I’m also OCD so I don’t think having my phone to the side would work for me, which is why I’m looking at mounting it on the handlebar stem, straight-up. I think I’ve decided on a RAM clamp mount with a 6” stem of its own, to which I can connect a quad lock ball mount. I should be able to angle it enough so that my phone can face up towards me at an angle. Once I know from you what the diameter is, I can see what RAM clamp I’ll need (since they have different sizes).

hydrocarbon

Hey MtlClimb ! The assembly is the same on both bikes; the lower section is 40.5 mm at the bottom tapering to 40.0 at the clamp, and the upper tube is 34.9 mm, which is the same as the seatpost diameter. Hope this helps.

I'd be interested to see what you end up going with, as I wouldn't mind some handy carrier dealies like that, myself.

hydrocarbon

In any case, Loads are... loads of fun.





I've done a few changes, and what makes the biggest difference to me are tires, handlebar and brakes. I loooooooooove Magura 4-piston units on these, and going to a wide bar with about 20 degrees of sweep makes it way more natural-handling in my opinion.

I like the Smart Sam rubber way more than stock. You can clear a 2.4" Supermoto-X on these if you want, too!

hydrocarbon

Oh yeah, and ditch the bulky stock saddle too.

MtlClimb

Whoa, that's amazing hydrocarbon . Those supermoto x look nice and fat on the front! I ordered the GX option myself since I'll be receiving in November and it will just be the beginning of the winter here in Montreal. We usually don't start getting snow until early December but there have been exceptions. I'll ride the GX tires all winter long.

Your other photos, other than the last one, wasn't coming through for me. It just shows a circle with a – on it, like a "no access" symbol.

I was out riding on some sand trails the past couple of days (with my Tern Vektron) and I was imagining how much fun it would be to be on a Load around those parts (around Mont Orford park up here in Quebec).

Question: how do you end up using your 2 Loads??? And which one did you get first, the 60 or 75 and why did you end up getting the 2nd one?

hydrocarbon

Allô MtlClimb !

Merde; I'll try again:








Hope these work.

The Smart Sam tyres that come with the GX package are perfect on a 60. Huge improvement in fun and feel over the stock ones in my opinion.

I've now had five of these bikes (three 60s and two 75s), and am currently running the current models of the 60 and 75, both of which are customized with larger rotors, bigger tires, different handlebar/grips/pedals/cassette/shifter and ton of other things.

We started with the 60, upgraded to a newer 60, sold that and went to the 75 when the third kid arrived. Then I wanted an extra cargo bike so I got yet another 60, which was recently sold to get this year's model in dual battery configuration. I like the Load 60 so much that I find I ride it a lot more than my solo electric bike, which is a customized Moustache Samedi X-Road 7 with tuned CX drive.



The 75 is mostly used by the wife; I generally only use it when I need to haul all three kids at once. I prefer the 60 for personal transportation and for trips with up to two passengers, as it's a better handler and more fun to ride. It's also really nice with a tune chip if you want to go that way. We use them every day so it's nice to have a bike each, and it's great to be haul the dogs and kids at the same time together. For over 90% of our outings, it's a complete car replacement, but without the parking and traffic hassles. In fact, our car has issues with parts seizing from lack of use, as it will often stay in the driveway for over a month.

A well-sorted Load 60 is an amazing handler that can out-descend just about anything on the right trails and roads. You're going to love it on those trails. Where I live is similar to Montreal conditions; wet, with some snow and ice.

I ran the Smart Sam rubber year-round on my previous 60, and throw on the widest spiked Marathons for the 75 for winter and run Supermotos in above-freezing conditions. I'm enjoying the Supermoto-X rubber on the new 60 too, so that might be worth a try and I think they look good with the reflective strips removed too.

hydrocarbon

Here's a photo of the new L60 from last week:



Since then I've added the blackout Supermoto-X tires, 203/220 mm Magura floating discs, a handy little nylon bag for keys and tools on the back of the box (can take a photo if you like) and I'm deciding whether to go with MT5e or MT7 brakes or stick with the stock Tektros. The C2.3s are better than the Auriga ones on the 75, but nothing beats the power, control and feel of the quad-piston Magura stuff. I'm going to try an air shock just to see how that feels, too. Just needs a mild speed tune and a steering damper, then it should be more or less perfect.

One underappreciated mod is to have two bells with different tones; one on each side of the bar. People can get startled when a big cargo rig passes unexpectedly from behind, and a friendly hi-lo ring helps things immensely with that. You can also make twice as much noise when you need to, as well.

Oh yeah, one small thing I would also recommend is to install a mudguard extension. These will kick up a lot of spray and grime onto your back in wet/windy conditions without one. The one I like is made by Fahrer; if you drill holes and install it with real bolts or rivets instead of the wimpy zip-ties it comes with, it integrates perfectly with the SKS fenders.

MtlClimb

Oh man, thanks hydrocarbon ! So many sweet inspiration pics! That one with the wood logs is Your use of the Load is pretty much what I aspire to: as my regular hauler and car replacement. Based on your use, I think I also made the right choice going with the 60 vs the 75: right now I've set it up to carry my daughter for her regular school drop off but at some point she will be riding her own bike, which leaves me with a fun, nimble bike that can carry cargo.


Your new Load looks awesome. I like that mudguard extension tip and will go and source that now before my bike arrives. I've also sourced a Spurcycle bell but I like your idea of having 2 bells, especially since they are so minimal in size. I've been prepping with some items already with an Ergotec bar-end mirror + end-adapter, got the Quad Lock ball mount and waiting on the RAM mounts for the clamp in the size that you measured for the handlebar stem. Cheers again for that! I'll mount it on one of my bikes to show you how the setup goes once it gets here. I think my Tern Vektron's seat post is the same diameter as the handlebar stem on the Load.


That was my thought as well about ending up riding the Load 60 more than my other bikes. I currently have a Tern Vektron and a Specialized (analog) Diverge gravel bike. I also have a Brompton Black Edition coming at almost the same time as the Load from my bike shop. I figure the Vektron (which is outfitted with racks front and rear, and is my main cargo transport method at the moment) will go by the wayside since I will likely end up riding the Load for that use. Bike infrastructure in Montreal is really good and I can pretty much ride my bikes on the island and get to the surrounding areas off-island pretty easily with bridges equipped with bike/pedestrian lanes.


I figure: the Load as my main bike, the Diverge as my recreation MTN/Road bike (I've kept it pretty much base with no racks, bags or anything) and my Brompton in those situations where I'd like to do multi-modal transport and/or going out to bars and shops where I'd like to bring my bike in. That leaves the Tern, which doesn't really serve any specific purpose. I suppose I can keep it for when going out of the city with the family with 2 folding bikes in the boot of the Forester, and maybe my daughter can ride it in a few years time as her main bike.

hydrocarbon

Ha, glad you liked them.

Yeah, that bike with the Rohloff is going to be an amazing ride. The 60 is without question the one to have if you like riding and don't need three seats in front, and I think it's better-looking than the 75 too. The 75 sells more because it's a small cost increase for the extra capacity, but it comes at the expense of making the bike less nimble and sporty, and its big canopy can be a handful in crosswinds.

It's an incredibly versatile bike and I've had fun getting mine set up just how I like for the local conditions. Everything works great straight from the factory since it's so adjustable, but I really recommend going wider and more swept-back on the bar to get the most out of this chassis. Crankarm guards aren't a bad idea either since the long wheelbase makes them more susceptible to hitting the ground.

Hoping you can post some photos when you get it done up to your liking. Personally, the Load 60 is easily my favourite bike.

hydrocarbon

Here's the current state of the build, with 203 front and 220 rear floating discs recently fitted:



One thing I've found really helpful is to run low pressure up front and high pressure in the rear tire, which keeps things planted and balanced. The rear tire has a lot more loading on it and benefits from the extra support, whereas the low pressure up front (around 1.5 bar) gives a nice fat contact patch and keeps the steering predictable and grippy, plus it seems to reduce the likelihood of speed wobbles, which I've experienced a few times to varying degrees of severity. Having some weight in the front seems to help too, so I carry my alarm lock and heavy chain lock in the footbox.

(On my first Load with the aluminum fork tubes and QR instead of thru-axle hub, a speed wobble kicked in around 60 km/h that slammed the fork from lock to lock hard enough to destroy the seals and spray oil all over the place, plus it deformed the tubes. Fortunately, it was replaced with the stronger steel-tubed version on warranty and I didn't have any more issues on that bike.)

I also found the low front pressure noticeably improved handling, as did a downhill-racing fellow L60 owner who tried my setup and is someone I'd consider an expert bike handler. He absolutely rips on his R&M.

Now I'm just waiting for the DT Swiss air shock and the tuning chip that are in the post, a steering damper for LarryVsHarry cargo bikes that seems to be sold out at the moment, and those big Magura brakes. The C2.3s will go over to the 75 to replace the crappy Auriga units.

The only other thing I'd really like is a good solution for GPS tracking. I think I'll try the type for pets that simply uses a tiny SIM card with no fees instead of a monthly subscription like the bike-specific ones. I'm borrowing one today for testing; hoping it works!

MtlClimb

I was hesitating for a little bit between the 60 and 75 but I just thought the 60 looked so much better and sportier. I think if utility was the main concern then the 75 makes sense, especially for the price difference as you had mentioned. But in videos and hearing from other Load owners like you who have owned both, it seems there is a noticeable difference in handling between the 60 and 75. Very happy with my choice.

I got the 60 with the high box sides + child cover but I also got my dealer to order me the lockable hard cover which will likely live on the bike once my little one is done getting lugged around lol

MtlClimb

hydrocarbon that speed wobble story sounds intense. Was the front-end loaded at the time? I can see those wobbles would appear if there wasn't any weight and going at high speeds. Thank you for that tip for the tire pressure. Since the Load is pretty much sold out everywhere over here, I'm kind of piecing together ride experience from many different people, including yourself. In fact, I have never seen a Load here on the roads in Montreal (lots of GSDs and RadPower cargos but no Load). That tire pressure tip is one of those things I can see myself setting right up at the beginning. There are a few things on my mind like swapping out the Aurigas later on, maybe after the first 6 months. I will likely hit you up with some advice on that in the springtime next year since you have a lot of experience with other braking options.

For GPS options, since its release I've put an Apple AirTag hidden on my Vektron and my Diverge. It's not GPS but with the abundance of iOS devices out there, it pretty much feels like it, especially in the city. I have parked my bike blocks from a pub and check on it with my phone. It gives me a pretty accurate reading and has lots of other cool tricks done in software. They are quite affordable too and I can see the software will just keep improving.

Looking forward to the Rohloff as it'll be my first time with an internally geared hub. I think for me the IGH Rohloff with the belt drive + GX tires is in my mind the perfect Montreal year-round setup since it'll reduce the amount of maintenance I'd have to do on the bike. I'll keep riding my Diverge as well over the winter so that's already one chain I'll need to clean and maintain!

MtlClimb

hydrocarbon sorry to bug you again. I'm building a backyard office/shed to replace the current tarp shed. I'll be parking the Load 60 in there. If it's not too much to ask, could I get you to measure the general "box" dimensions of the Load 60? Basically from front to back tire, end-to-end; from widest point on the left/right sides (I imagine it'll be the handlebar ends) and from floor to top of the highest point (again I'm thinking handlebar although this can vary since you can fold it). That'll give me a box I can put in my 3D model since I'm designing the new shed in SketchUp. No rush! When/if you can!

hydrocarbon

MtlClimb Happy to help; I'll get the tape measure out on the lunch break and check. Don't forget that the handlebar is adjustable for tilt and five height positions, and generally you're going to park with the bar turned to one side, which cuts down the width. I run an extra-wide bar with rise so my dimensions won't be accurate for you, but you're probably going to want to replace the stock one with something similar, as a narrow cross-country bar with minimal sweep isn't ideal for this chassis.

Great tip with the AirTag. I tried out a friend's cat tracker yesterday and it was cool, but it relies on a subscription service and I'm hoping to find something tiny and subscription-free.

Rohloff is an awesome hub. Plan your shifts, however, because the electronic version on these cuts power during the gear change, which can kill your uphill momentum. Really great to know that the bike isn't going to be crippled by the cassette shortage this year, though.

hydrocarbon

MtlClimb I got these numbers from a review:

Length 248 cm
Width 58 cm
Height 86 cm

Mine are:
L 247
W 59
H 115 (riser bar at max stem extension)

The bar width is narrower than the box when it’s turned to full lock.

Also, I highly recommend sourcing a higher-quality 165 x 38 rear shock than the stock one. I fitted a DT Swiss air unit. Makes a huge difference in ride quality; if I’d know how much better it makes these bikes, I’d have fitted one a lot sooner.



Now I just need a decent fork that fits… 🤔

hydrocarbon

Ah yes, the 3-Hz-headshake incident. I actually had two kids in the bike at the time and it was a bit scary since it was a pretty steep paved downhill that was getting steeper. I was able to slow the bike down from the indicated 62 with the rear brake, but for a good 100+ metres there wasn't a lot of directional control happening.

Anyway, I chalk it up to the early 60's flexy fork, but from what I've read, more weight and damping (e.g. lower tire pressures) up front helps too.

On the new bike I can induce a significant wobble on the new bike if I try — tapping the bar sharply or getting air on the front at speed can get it resonating — but I'm hoping a steering damper and a better fork than the Suntour will sort that out. I'll probably also take the new wheel I'm building for the longer-travel Manitou J-Unit to the scooter shop for a balancing job. Despite that, the 2021 60 been consistently stable past 60 km/h on smooth descents, but I still take it easier with the kids in front now.