inexpensive fat bikes
07-08-21, 09:07 AM
#51
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Aye, and for sure. I'm a big, burly kettlebell & mace swinging bastard. I drive my Pug hurling through time and space like a madman. Bike and driver weigh nearly three hundred pounds altogether. Eight speed Shimano hub, heavy duty spokes, fattest tires I can fit on the bike... I never break down. I roll on and on to my heart's content. Bodyweight and bike weight = momentum. On asphalt and pavement my knobby tires sound like a swarm of angry wasps coming up on the walkers and joggers. They jump out of the way as though they're getting stung.
It always surprises me to see how many lightweights just can't keep up with me. They put all this time and effort into this lightweight bike and clothing and the whole bit, but they aren't built strong enough physically and they just peter out after a little while. I think what has a lot to do with people obsessed with lightweight everything is they don't want to put the work in and get stronger and more capable, so they rely on a light bike; they want what everyone else has, afraid to be different; gotta have the latest gear; they like to LOOK pro; mass marketing gets their hooks in them, etc. I do what I want to do and don't care what others think.
It always surprises me to see how many lightweights just can't keep up with me. They put all this time and effort into this lightweight bike and clothing and the whole bit, but they aren't built strong enough physically and they just peter out after a little while. I think what has a lot to do with people obsessed with lightweight everything is they don't want to put the work in and get stronger and more capable, so they rely on a light bike; they want what everyone else has, afraid to be different; gotta have the latest gear; they like to LOOK pro; mass marketing gets their hooks in them, etc. I do what I want to do and don't care what others think.
07-08-21, 11:58 AM
#52
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In perfect conditions 28h may work ok but with wider spacing between spokes, as soon as one breaks there is a far greater risk of the rim going out of true and/or putting greater stress on the remaining spokes. It's not just the strength of a perfect wheel that counts off road, but also what happens when something fails.
On a road bike meh... most are never that far from a lift home. On a billed "off road adventure bike" what's the point? A simple cost benefit analysis shows no pros and an assumed risk of failure simply because the look of low spoke wheels became trickle down trendy from the road scene.
Last edited by Happy Feet; 07-08-21 at 12:01 PM.
07-08-21, 12:13 PM
#53
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Wheels are pretty darn stiff and durable now. Some find that the wheels is actually too stiff with 32 spokes, 28 may allow for a bit of flex so wheels aren't too stiff and harsh. It's all about the rim. Weight of the rider also comes into play.
07-08-21, 02:52 PM
#54
Fatbiker
I definitely think there is a place for the "best" technology when it comes to bikes and that is when one is riding competitively. If you have already optimized the motor then any advantage one gets from optimizing the bike makes sense.
But... if one talks obsessively about the competitive advantages of one bike over another yet only rides recreationally, as most of us do here, and hasn't optimized the motor, it comes across that the "competition" is just how fancy a bike one can buy. Using a credit card is not a skill. I suspect, except for a few outliers, most people participating on this forum could not out ride the capabilities of even a mid grade fat bike. I know I just took my rigid Fatboy to Alpine Ski Resort in Fernie and the only thing limiting my progression through the runs was skill, not bike.
All that does not mean one can't choose whatever bike they want. That's fair play. But blah blah blah about how one is so much better than the other is boring to anyone who actually gets out and gives it on a regular basis. On the trails I meet few people who give a sh_t as long as you are riding.
But... if one talks obsessively about the competitive advantages of one bike over another yet only rides recreationally, as most of us do here, and hasn't optimized the motor, it comes across that the "competition" is just how fancy a bike one can buy. Using a credit card is not a skill. I suspect, except for a few outliers, most people participating on this forum could not out ride the capabilities of even a mid grade fat bike. I know I just took my rigid Fatboy to Alpine Ski Resort in Fernie and the only thing limiting my progression through the runs was skill, not bike.
All that does not mean one can't choose whatever bike they want. That's fair play. But blah blah blah about how one is so much better than the other is boring to anyone who actually gets out and gives it on a regular basis. On the trails I meet few people who give a sh_t as long as you are riding.
Of course if you want you can spend lots of money and have the greatest bike on the market. That's all up to you. Its your money. Enjoy. But even so, one has to spend a little to get something decent. I got my Pug used for $750.00 and built it to my liking, spending at least that much more just getting close to what I wanted. A new Pug is nineteen hundred bucks. A decent bike is not cheap any way you look at it. But personally I can spend more on bikes because we are a one car family and save tons of cash because of my bike habits.
07-08-21, 03:53 PM
#55
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And who exactly with + size tires and/or suspension on off road bikes thinks 32h wheels are too "stiff". How would they note that? Predictably, wheels that have flex already with low spoke counts are that much more likely to go out of true when you break a spoke.
You can't argue both at once - a rim so stiff it supports low spoke counts yet more flexible than higher spoke count rims.
Take the same quality components, rim and spokes, and the higher spoke count wheel is stronger. Why build an intentionally weaker wheel when you don't have to. Roadies argue weight but for adventure genre bikes that's a non issue. It's just Trek and other manufacturers trying to appeal to trend and "looks". Form over function.
Last edited by Happy Feet; 07-09-21 at 01:03 AM.
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07-08-21, 07:13 PM
#56
Fatbiker
No. The folks with broken spokes on 1120 28h rims would disagree.
And who exactly with + size tires and/or suspension on off road bikes thinks 32h wheels are too "stiff". How would they note that? Predictably, wheels that have flex already with low spoke counts are that much more likely to go out of true when you break a spoke.
You can't argue both at once - a rim so stiff it supports low spoke counts yet more flexible than higher spoke count rims.
Take the same quality components, rim and spokes, and the higher spoke count wheel is stronger. Why build an intentionally weaker wheel when you don't have to. Roadies argue weight but for adventure genre bikes that's a non issue. It's just Trek and other manufacturers trying to appeal to trend and "looks". Fashion over form.
And who exactly with + size tires and/or suspension on off road bikes thinks 32h wheels are too "stiff". How would they note that? Predictably, wheels that have flex already with low spoke counts are that much more likely to go out of true when you break a spoke.
You can't argue both at once - a rim so stiff it supports low spoke counts yet more flexible than higher spoke count rims.
Take the same quality components, rim and spokes, and the higher spoke count wheel is stronger. Why build an intentionally weaker wheel when you don't have to. Roadies argue weight but for adventure genre bikes that's a non issue. It's just Trek and other manufacturers trying to appeal to trend and "looks". Fashion over form.
07-09-21, 08:22 AM
#57
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No. The folks with broken spokes on 1120 28h rims would disagree.
And who exactly with + size tires and/or suspension on off road bikes thinks 32h wheels are too "stiff". How would they note that? Predictably, wheels that have flex already with low spoke counts are that much more likely to go out of true when you break a spoke.
You can't argue both at once - a rim so stiff it supports low spoke counts yet more flexible than higher spoke count rims.
Take the same quality components, rim and spokes, and the higher spoke count wheel is stronger. Why build an intentionally weaker wheel when you don't have to. Roadies argue weight but for adventure genre bikes that's a non issue. It's just Trek and other manufacturers trying to appeal to trend and "looks". Form over function.
And who exactly with + size tires and/or suspension on off road bikes thinks 32h wheels are too "stiff". How would they note that? Predictably, wheels that have flex already with low spoke counts are that much more likely to go out of true when you break a spoke.
You can't argue both at once - a rim so stiff it supports low spoke counts yet more flexible than higher spoke count rims.
Take the same quality components, rim and spokes, and the higher spoke count wheel is stronger. Why build an intentionally weaker wheel when you don't have to. Roadies argue weight but for adventure genre bikes that's a non issue. It's just Trek and other manufacturers trying to appeal to trend and "looks". Form over function.
I sometimes feel from your posts that your biking knowledge is still stuck in the 80's and 90's and that you haven't accepted that there are better materials and designs available right now to allow lower spoke counts.
The standard wheel from the manufacturer is always overbuilt with heavy spokes because they don't know the weight of the rider that will buy the bike. Custom wheelset allows the rider to adjust that.
Here is an example right here of 28 spoke riders...
https://www.mtbr.com/threads/28-spok...l-bike.981060/
Now if you are approaching the 300 lb mark I would probably not recommend that someone use 28 spoke wheels.
Last edited by prj71; 07-09-21 at 08:27 AM.
07-09-21, 08:53 AM
#58
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Well, it would be me and everyone else stuck there too then. I feel you are stuck being a fanboy for every new gimmick that comes along, trading up and then disparaging the bike you just finished thinking was "all that", a bike industry dream consumer. You also seem fixated on the easy softer way to ride off road that I can not relate to. I did not get into mtbing because I sought the easy, softer path. We are just different that way and I don't fault you for your perspective, only that you disparage others for holding theirs. For example: I see no need, when already riding 4+ tires, to want a CF frame so the bike is a little lighter or the ride is a little less buzzy. To me, unless I'm racing, that's a whole lot of money for nothing.
But... to get back to this particular bike. If you read about those bikes you linked they are talking about full suspension and rider weight, which would be suspended on the wheelset. The forces exerted on the spokes in minimized by design. The Trek 1120 is a rigid adventure bike with two proprietary and beefy looking cargo racks attached to the frame. It's billed as a bikepacking bike. If we assume the maker intended people to actually carry loads on those overbuilt racks all the cargo and rider weight is transmitted directly to the wheels. A very different situation. In that design the spokes actually take most of the force of off road impact without any way to disipate it. In some ways I like the 1120 but the wheel choice was an oversight based on current trends for fashion rather than intended to build a solid off road bike. Again, when this bike came out it was pretty well discussed in the touring sub forum with pros and cons noted.
But... to get back to this particular bike. If you read about those bikes you linked they are talking about full suspension and rider weight, which would be suspended on the wheelset. The forces exerted on the spokes in minimized by design. The Trek 1120 is a rigid adventure bike with two proprietary and beefy looking cargo racks attached to the frame. It's billed as a bikepacking bike. If we assume the maker intended people to actually carry loads on those overbuilt racks all the cargo and rider weight is transmitted directly to the wheels. A very different situation. In that design the spokes actually take most of the force of off road impact without any way to disipate it. In some ways I like the 1120 but the wheel choice was an oversight based on current trends for fashion rather than intended to build a solid off road bike. Again, when this bike came out it was pretty well discussed in the touring sub forum with pros and cons noted.
07-13-21, 08:54 AM
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Honestly. Do you think so little of the people on this forum that you believe you have some sort of secret superior insight into stuff that is plastered all over the internet.
Perhaps some others have just lost that FOMO on every new thing that comes along. I participate here because I like to ride bikes, not buy bikes.
When are you ever going to post something about where you are currently riding or maybe a picture or video of the awesome terrain your advanced bikes seem so much better at handling?
Like this: Alpine Ski Resort Fernie BC. Two weeks ago. It appears I know enough about technology to get my fatbike to the top of the run and ride at least.
Last edited by Happy Feet; 07-13-21 at 09:01 AM.
07-13-21, 12:55 PM
#61
Fatbiker
Wow.. that's amazing. You must feel very intelligent realizing that
Honestly. Do you think so little of the people on this forum that you believe you have some sort of secret superior insight into stuff that is plastered all over the internet.
Perhaps some others have just lost that FOMO on every new thing that comes along. I participate here because I like to ride bikes, not buy bikes.
When are you ever going to post something about where you are currently riding or maybe a picture or video of the awesome terrain your advanced bikes seem so much better at handling?
Like this: Alpine Ski Resort Fernie BC. Two weeks ago. It appears I know enough about technology to get my fatbike to the top of the run and ride at least.
Honestly. Do you think so little of the people on this forum that you believe you have some sort of secret superior insight into stuff that is plastered all over the internet.
Perhaps some others have just lost that FOMO on every new thing that comes along. I participate here because I like to ride bikes, not buy bikes.
When are you ever going to post something about where you are currently riding or maybe a picture or video of the awesome terrain your advanced bikes seem so much better at handling?
Like this: Alpine Ski Resort Fernie BC. Two weeks ago. It appears I know enough about technology to get my fatbike to the top of the run and ride at least.
I live on the prairie now. Everything flat here. Tons of gravel grinding and groomed trails, nothing really hilly, woodsy around. Unlike the high and low deserts of AZ and NV where I used to live. But it's cool! So long as I can CRANK!
07-13-21, 01:37 PM
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Way too much smoke is generated regarding having the "perfect" bike IMO. Many people have ridden many miles off road for many years on "good enough" bikes. I prefer to share where I go and how I ride rather than what I bought.
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07-13-21, 02:39 PM
#63
Fatbiker
I actually live on the BC coast and usually do North Shore type riding. Two weeks ago I did a paddleboard/fatbike road trip that crossed the Rockies five times to visit six National Parks. Next month I'm aiming to check out Montana (fingers crossed for the border opening) and back again to Moab n November.
Way too much smoke is generated regarding having the "perfect" bike IMO. Many people have ridden many miles off road for many years on "good enough" bikes. I prefer to share where I go and how I ride rather than what I bought.
Way too much smoke is generated regarding having the "perfect" bike IMO. Many people have ridden many miles off road for many years on "good enough" bikes. I prefer to share where I go and how I ride rather than what I bought.
Yes, some people are real tech-headz. They come in handy when you need them. I worked in a high-end bike/adventure shop in Las Vegas a few years back. The top mechanic there knew everything there was to know about all the latest goods on the market and was an excellent mechanic... he owned one bike. He never drove it unless the weather was absolutely perfect and even then it was all short trips. Another friend owns several mountain bikes--which he won't allow to get dirty. But it was important to him to make sure all the screws and bolts on the bikes were removed and replaced with titanium, y'know, to make the bike lighter for all the driving he doesn't do. Gear geeks should own and work in bike shops--and leave the driving to us.
07-14-21, 08:50 AM
#64
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Wow.. that's amazing. You must feel very intelligent realizing that
Honestly. Do you think so little of the people on this forum that you believe you have some sort of secret superior insight into stuff that is plastered all over the internet.
Perhaps some others have just lost that FOMO on every new thing that comes along. I participate here because I like to ride bikes, not buy bikes.
When are you ever going to post something about where you are currently riding or maybe a picture or video of the awesome terrain your advanced bikes seem so much better at handling?
Like this: Alpine Ski Resort Fernie BC. Two weeks ago. It appears I know enough about technology to get my fatbike to the top of the run and ride at least.
Honestly. Do you think so little of the people on this forum that you believe you have some sort of secret superior insight into stuff that is plastered all over the internet.
Perhaps some others have just lost that FOMO on every new thing that comes along. I participate here because I like to ride bikes, not buy bikes.
When are you ever going to post something about where you are currently riding or maybe a picture or video of the awesome terrain your advanced bikes seem so much better at handling?
Like this: Alpine Ski Resort Fernie BC. Two weeks ago. It appears I know enough about technology to get my fatbike to the top of the run and ride at least.
But I don't like to spew misinformation either. Just sayin'
07-14-21, 01:45 PM
#65
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Nice dodge on the "post some pics" angle. The advanced riding all that new expensive gear allows- We'll just take your word for it 😉
As to spewing misinformation.
Continually posting into threads telling people they need to up their budget and disparaging anything but modern technology without ever enquiring as to the reasons for those budgets or the conditions people intent to ride, is the definition of spewing. You offer a one size fits all approach and don't even bother to try to determine the individuals parameters.
Srsly, it is the laziest, least helpful response possible to only be able to reference the newest, most expensive, most modern choices. Any salesman can point to the top tier as a default and feel pretty confident they've gotten it right. You come off as smug because you actually think this is some superior skill that you possess over others.
Skill comes from knowing when you do, and more importantly, don't need that and how to work around real world budgetary constraints.
Last edited by Happy Feet; 07-14-21 at 01:49 PM.
07-14-21, 03:22 PM
#66
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I don't take a lot of pics while out biking. But here are a couple I had on my phone...
And yes...people should up their budget if they want a decent bike. With bikes, you get what you pay for in terms of quality and reliabilty. It's really that simple.
And yes...people should up their budget if they want a decent bike. With bikes, you get what you pay for in terms of quality and reliabilty. It's really that simple.
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07-14-21, 07:04 PM
#67
Fatbiker
That's what it's all about!
07-15-21, 08:27 AM
#68
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I'm being pretty up front with you but I really don't think there's anything wrong with what you ride or where. Just that you can be such a dick when it comes to other peoples choices. Otherwise, Nice pics.
I can post a ton of similar scenic scenes and have never paid more than $800 for a bike.
Two weeks ago. Stars wars/Return of the Jedi. Banff Alberta.
07-15-21, 09:45 AM
#69
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Those sections of the trail with the black mountain bike are the "nicer" sections of a trail system that is over 30 miles long. A lot of the trail is chunky rocky rooty and really sucks on a rigid bike, is less sucky on a hard tail and is nice and comfy on full suspension. More than likey that is where I stopped to take a break and grab a drink and a snack.
Not trying to be a dick. Trying to be helpful. Have known so many people that have got into this sport on the cheap and then regretted it later due to failing parts etc.
I'm glad your $800 bikes are working for you. You don't know what you don't know.
Not trying to be a dick. Trying to be helpful. Have known so many people that have got into this sport on the cheap and then regretted it later due to failing parts etc.
I'm glad your $800 bikes are working for you. You don't know what you don't know.
07-16-21, 06:09 AM
#71
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It might be time to move on, guys. Everybody looks for different things in biking, and where they bike. Some like it hard core. Some like it smooth and comfortable. Some have pro level skills. Some are Freds. Some wear cycling kit. Some wear flannel and jeans shorts. And it's all good, because we're all on two wheels.
07-16-21, 07:55 AM
#72
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-Baby Boomers
Yup...Some of the newer bikes are much more comfortable, faster, fun, safer and reliable. You speak as if that's a bad thing and say negative things about nice bikes that you've never even ridden. I don't know if it's jealousy or what with you.
Just do me a favor and don't respond to my posts.
Last edited by prj71; 07-16-21 at 08:08 AM.
07-16-21, 01:33 PM
#73
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I like old stuff and new technology and better designs and materials is dumb!!!"
-Baby Boomers
Yup...Some of the newer bikes are much more comfortable, faster, fun, safer and reliable. You speak as if that's a bad thing and say negative things about nice bikes that you've never even ridden. I don't know if it's jealousy or what with you.
Just do me a favor and don't respond to my posts.
-Baby Boomers
Yup...Some of the newer bikes are much more comfortable, faster, fun, safer and reliable. You speak as if that's a bad thing and say negative things about nice bikes that you've never even ridden. I don't know if it's jealousy or what with you.
Just do me a favor and don't respond to my posts.
A. Never said anything bad about a nice bike... ever.
My push back is always when YOU say something bad about less expensive or older bikes. Let's keep that straight. It's your repetitive long standing need to put other bikes down in threads you admittedly care nothing about (rigid, 26", older design) that I take issue with. If you could your curb need to denigrate that there would be no problem. No one puts your choices down - You put other peoples choices down. I asked fort some pics as to what kind of conditions you ride for some clarification (it's always so easy to snipe from the cover of anonymity) as you like to talk a lot about how all this stuff makes riding so much better yet, predictably, there is nothing that special about the conditions you ride.
The title of this thread is "Inexpensive fat bikes". Are you interested in them... or just want to put them down?
B. I ride lot's of bikes. Some expensive, some not. In 1 hour I'm going to ride a $6000 bike as part of my job. When I'm not working I travel around NA riding bikes or scuba diving. Just my drysuit is worth more than some bikes. No jealousy here. The difference is that I can appreciate the values of both, expensive and inexpensive, particularly for people who are on a fixed budget. I support riders, not the industry.
C. Your made up quote only shows how judgmental you are towards others. FWIW, BB's put a man on the moon and invented that computer thingy you are typing on.
There. Now you can call it quits if you want. I feel no need to continue making this personal but I will continue to push back against your negativity towards bikes you "deem" unworthy, particularly in threads about those you have no interest in otherwise. I feel it limits the participation of others who may feel judged because of the value of their bikes. I'm here to share and encourage riding, not spending and will continue to do so for all points along the price/design/era spectrum. You will just have to make room for people to have pleasant conversations about bikes you are not interested in without posting in to sully the waters.
Last edited by Happy Feet; 07-16-21 at 01:44 PM.
07-22-21, 10:16 PM
#75
Fatbiker
