23skidoo

My most recent snag. These are the seller's photos of a frame kept for some time in his collection and never built. It's beautiful and I'd like to know which Wagner built this one.

mikemowbz

Just one of those 'no info - but helluva nice bike!' posts from me.

Those lugs tread a unique line between 'clean' and 'ornate'.

23skidoo

I have an undisclosed weakness for fades and interesting paint. I've had three in a row from the same time period, all with Porta Catena dropouts. The rear brake bridge is especially yummy.

23skidoo

I did find a thread from 2011 that included information about the 'Spray By Betsy' decal on the seat tube; it seems she was once Mrs. P. J. Weigle and one fine painter. I wonder if it's been Framer-Savered?

KonAaron Snake 

Good lord - that's amazing. This is when it helps to have a more distinctive name...his bike is clearly pre-google. I often wonder if Look and Time would have the same names in the Google era.

This thread might be interesting to you:

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...cinelli-wagner

Germany_chris

I like it far more then the Niner in the background.

Italuminium

Oooh sweet lugs!

rootboy 

Lovely lugs and workmanship.
Isn't that "Betsy" decal very similar to the logo of another artisan maker?
Looks kind of familiar.

gomango

I'd take either.

Cool Wagner frameset with great details for sure though.

23skidoo

Is this what you mean rootboy? I lifted the image from a thread started a couple of years back by shnibop--where is he these days btw?--titled 'JP Weigle, Spray by Betsy connection?

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ghlight=Weigle

unworthy1

that's what I was thinking: check out the JP Weigle connection, I don't know why he might have built under another name, but the paint work is undoubtedly by his wife...since this is total custom, it could even be the name of the original owner, not the builder.
The frame bits are a combo of older vintage (the portacatena DOs and above BB cable guides) plus a later Cinelli BB shell, and even later Cinelli brake bridge (I'd guess late '80s or early '90s for that one) and a Henry James fork crown (also '80s, I think). I suppose the serial number might indicate the year ('85) that this was built, but it might also be just a sequential number. I suggest you contact Peter (JP) and ask the man, himself!
Beautiful work, even if you don't care for the lugs...

23skidoo

unworthy1 I took your advice and called the man himself after I got home from work and left a message on his answering machine and was surprised to get a return call not more than ten minutes later! We had a very interesting and cordial conversation about bikes and ex-wives that ended because I ran out of time. He readily agreed to look at photos to assist with an ID and was looking through his records as we spoke. People like me call him all the time with mystery bikes and he's got several of his own to identify. I'll post an update if I hear back from him.

unworthy1

fantastic! can't wait to hear what he says...

The Golden Boy 

It was nice that you were able to have a Hart To Hart talk with him.

23skidoo

He was gracious, amusing and informative on the phone and replied by email after looking at the photos, disavowing any personal knowledge of the frame or it's provenance, suggesting that it may have been painted by his ex-wife in a shop he set up for her in Massachusetts as part of their personal and professional parting. It looks like this one will remain a mystery.

lostarchitect 

Well, Parsifal is one of my favorite operas.

wintermute

With that paint job, I'd name it Goetterdaemmerung if it was mine

Off topic: Lost Architect - have you seen the new Ring cycle at the Met? I got to see Die Walkure last year - spectacular (in every sense of the word!)

Pars 

Mine as well, and origin of my handle (after studying the Prelude to Act 3 in school).

Italuminium

I think some meisterbuilder was at work here.

OT, visit Nürnberg as fast as you can. IMHO one of the most inpressive cities here in the old world. OT2: I once had the pleasure to sit next to a jewish violinist listening to his decades long struggle with his love for his music and his hatred for his antisemitic works. Extremely insightful in the relationship between music, people and ideas. Is there absolute beauty in music? OT3 organize a walkürenritt when the folks in town get tires of tweed rides.

lostarchitect 

I saw some of it on PBS-- Wow. Amazing set. Great performance.

gomango

My father lived there for three years during the 1950s.

He took incredible pictures of the city and nearby Dorfs during the rebuilding years.

I have been there twice and we are scheduled to visit again in July on our drive to Bergen in northern Germany.

My father also lived in Erlangen and has fond memories of this city as well.

Rich, incredible history!

23skidoo

Gott im Himmel!! Mein thread is ausgehijacked!!

unworthy1

Ja, scheiss hapnungs...
I'm surprised that it has NO connection to Mr. Weigle (aside from his ex-wife's paintjob), since the lug and forkcrown reworking looks so "typical" of some of his other published work...but then, anybody can copy anybody!
Still looks like a very nice frame, whoever built it.

gomango

Es tüt mir leid!

Back to the frame, there is a local builder by the name of Chris Kvale.

Try emailing him the pics and see if he has an idea.

Gravity Aided

Brot und Wein, part II of the Grail Scene from Act 1, Parsifal. Simply electrifying. So is the bike. All about The Grail