mikethe

Hi,

Looks like current generation Red/Force released at April 2019 - So roughly they are 3 years old.
Do we expect at 2022 or even next year 2023 a new generation?
And if so, what leap forward should we expect? (I mean Shimano moved this year to 12 basically to be aligned with existing SRAM so the new Shimano generation is something worth upgrade. Where possibly SRAM can move forward now? 13 is unlikely anyway, so what else?).

Thanks,

cxwrench

Battery is dead in my Magic 8 Ball. Honestly I would expect sometime this year, maybe an intro at Sea Otter in April.

Sy Reene

New stuff will release as soon as all of the parts and inventory of the current lines are sold out.

GhostRider62

Have they delivered anything in the past year? Hard to imagine release of a new line anytime soon. I'd guess 2024.

softreset

They probably have enough product in their pipeline that isn't getting into the hands of consumers. I order a Rival ASX XPLR group set in late September and the last update I got (about 10 days ago) was "hopefully July."

chaadster

Didn’t SRAM drop XPLR in the past year, and Rival AXS? Didn’t they expand Eagle line to 52t rear cog and give X01 AXS compatibility in the past year, too? Just today, a ridemate was sporting the copper colored XX1 cassette, released last year, and it looked sick! Seems to me that SRAM have been quite busy the past year…

chaadster

Why do you say that?

cxwrench

Because their current standard is 12. They're not going to jump to 13 cogs on mechanical groups if the top of the line electric groups are 12.

chaadster

If you’re reading the OP as expecting new mechanical versions of Red and Force, well, I agree with you, but I don’t think that’s what the OP was asking, nor do I even think SRAM is going to update mechanical Red or Force. I took the OP to be asking about any Red/Force, including electronic, but I may have been wrong, so hopefully the OP can clarify what they meant.

ericcox

This is probably wishful thinking on my part, but if they were going to jump to 13 cogs, the 1X only XPLR would have been the time to do it. I've convinced myself of that as I've only had my bike with XPLR since November.

I am curious to see if they do any upgrades soon on Red or Force. It seems SRAM is being specced OEM on a lot of stuff lately; it seems to have better availability than Shimano at least on new bikes. XPLR vs GRX is just one example.

chaadster

Remembering that, with AXS, getting 13spd is really only a matter of a firmware update…and having 13spd cassettes. Given that the gravel world didn’t fall all over itself to scoop up 13spd Ekar, I’d wager SRAM is going to save launching 13spd for Red, to steal the thunder away from new Dura Ace. The road world has proven to be very amenable to the notion of “more gears are better,” whereas gravel is embracing fewer gears and simply does not generate the kind of excitement an extra cog does on the road scene.

PeteHski

I can't imagine anything other than a cosmetic facelift for Red/Force eTap this year. I've read a few reviews recently commenting on how Rival looks more stylish than Force. Also hear quite a few comments on how Force looks a bit cheap and plasticky compared to Shimano. So maybe they might give Force a facelift soon. Or maybe not. I don't expect an imminent move to 13 speed unless Red only. But given SRAM are very pro 1x then I wouldn't be at all surprised if the next generation is 13 speed.

GhostRider62

Where can I buy SRAM Gruppos?

Do you misunderstand the word, "Deliver"....?

I have some SRAM stuff on order since July and the date now is March, but it keeps getting pushed month by month, In other words, they are not delivering,

mikethe

I mean naturally let's talk about electric since it looks like we all moving to electric only - with the rival and probably widely expected electric 105...
So here is the thing - 13X2 sounds more of the same without real added value. Do you expect the next Red/Force to be 13X1 (for road racers)? This could be excited innovation...

PeteHski

I'm pretty sure 1x13 is on the cards now Campag have dipped their toes in the water. But more for the gravel market than road racing, at least initially. So I would expect to see both 2x13 and 1x13 options for road. Will probably be more of an even split than we see today between 2x12 vs 1x12. But I would be very surprised to see this in the next 12 months. I don't see any commercial incentive right now. Why would SRAM NOT want to sell front mechs and 2x chainrings at this point? It's not like their competition is putting any pressure on them to go 1x only. XPLR is less than 12 months old too.

If SRAM take any notice of public perception they would be focusing more on perceived quality (styling, finish, reliability) rather than new tech. That's why I'm thinking there might be some sort of facelift coming for Red and Force. It doesn't help that Rival, Force and Red don't really have a coherent cosmetic look and finish like Shimano do across their range. It looks more like different industrial design teams styled each one independently.

chaadster

I did misunderstand, because of course they’ve delivered product in the past year. I put together a Force AXS groupset myself early last year, and as I mentioned, my buddy has the copper XX1 cassette. Glory Cycles has Rival AXS in stock right now.

So yeah, to answer your question “Have they delivered anything in the past year,” yes they have.

Certainly stuff in the Covid era is not available as it was, so consumers probably have to shop differently than we used to. In fact, I ordered a full Force AXS gruppo through a shop in 2019 and waited weeks before assembling it piecemeal myself in early ‘20.

My advice would be that if a shop doesn’t have what you want, don’t bother ordering, and just keep shopping until you find it. I shop internationally, too, and have go-to vendors in several countries that I dug up in some pretty convoluted Googling, but have had the stuff I wanted, like Deda 35 bars from Netherlands, and Phil Wood seat clamps in pink from Singapore.

PeteHski

Retail stock is thin on the ground in the UK, with major online stores estimating delivery as far out as 2024 on some full SRAM AXS groupsets. But there are some parts in stock if you hunt around. OEM supply seems a little better. My new Canyon with Force AXS arrived within a month of ordering, so I presume Canyon must have had a stash of groupsets in their inventory for new builds. When I was thinking of doing a custom build via a local shop back in September they said parts were coming through in dribs and drabs. They had literally one set of SRAM Rival AXS available for build. Nothing else and no idea when they could get hold of it. They said it could easily be 12 months plus at that point.

msu2001la

My upcoming SRAM road predictions:

• Nothing new for 2022. They will sit on new product release until supply chains are flowing better.
• 11sp Mechanical Force/Red are dead. SRAM will go electronic only on future versions, which seems to have been the case for a few years already.
• Rim brake versions will be dead. Discs only.
• Force and Red AXS will get 13 cogs. They'll continue to make 2x with narrower range cassette, but push 1x hard across the adventure/gravel spectrum as a revolutionary evolution that increases range and capability. Campy fans will be enraged by this. Shimano fans will scoff and downplay the need for more gears.
• Gravel specific groupset. Probably something that is two tiered, with a 12sp version in-between Rival and Force, and a 13sp that is basically force but with some rubber textured levers and a different logo and costs $500 more.

chaadster

msu2001la Detailed predictions; that’s some ol’ Carnac the Magnificent level stuff!

GhostRider62

Who asked for your advice? And, I did not have a question.

I do not want Rival. Red. And it is not available and has not generally been available or easily available. You can spin or twist my words as usual but those are facts, when consumers have to scour the internet over some months for parts to cobble together a build, there is a supply issue. I have most of the parts now but am waiting on several more. In my opinion, SRAM will fulfill existing orders before introducing new grouppos. Shimano has not even delivered the 12 speed groups that they introduced last summer and from what I have read, it will be Q2/Q3 before they do so. Thus, SRAM will not do anything other than try to meet the backlog. Certainly, once they hit 13S.....front derailleurs are gone or mostly gone.

chaadster

I think you need some advice, and here’s another piece of it: make clear and accurate statements if you don’t want to be misunderstood, and if you don’t want to discuss your comments, don’t make them on discussion boards.

Of course, that might make tweaking out a little more difficult if tweaking is your thing…

DaveSSS 

I would expect the pandemic situation to set back any new product introduction back by at least a year, maybe two. To buy all of the components to make a force or red group usually requires ordering from several suppliers. I found force axs hrd shifters fairly quickly with a Google search. I bought two partial force groups in mid 2020, so I'm set for awhile. Sram needs to offer cranks with more range. I have grx 48/31 cranks and recently bought two 10-33 cassettes and two more chains.

Most European sources won't sell to US customers. Sram prohibits it.

I also would expect mechanical groups to be discontinued, unless sram wants to try supplying parts for low end bikes.

mikethe

Now we are talking, so: 2023, SRAM going to 13X1 for ROAD (put aside gravel, cyclocross etc.), big innovate leap forward, "paradigm shift" like the one happened in MTB's (going 1X, moving away from 26" tires etc.).

GhostRider62

I was thinking 2024 but maybe 2023.

I would probably live with 50 chainring and 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 22, 26, 30, 34, 39 for most riding and a 46T for very hill terrain.

PeteHski

It's not "if" but "when" everything will be 13 gear. I wouldn't put my money on it happening in 2023 though. The move from 2x to 1x for road is far less likely to be universally adopted like it was in the MTB world. Shifting front rings while riding technical singletrack was always a pita, but on a road bike it's not really a big deal at all. I would probably be first in line for a 1x13 road setup and have been seriously considering it already with Ekar. But I think the road market will be split between 2x and 1x for at least the next 5 years, with 1x gradually gaining more popularity. There's a lot to like in getting rid of the front mech and 13 gears is enough for most use cases. It was a huge step forward for MTB drivetrains and I have never missed 2x or 3x on those for even 1 second.

So they can bring it on as far as I'm concerned. My gut feeling is 2024 for SRAM 1x13. Can't see Shimano going there until at least 2025 though.