WhyFi

Totally not worth it.... but can't be kept in stock. Do you know how this game works?

Koyote

Lots of people flunked Econ 101 -- or never even signed up.

GhostRider62

Buy high, sell low?

Buy umbrellas when it is raining and snow shovels during a blizzard?

Tusk

I'd like to see some of those pics. I always enjoy a good chuckle.

ThermionicScott 

There are probably lots of those groups, but this Facebook group has some great stuff: https://www.facebook.com/groups/763609394079686

Psimet2001 

One of my favorites that even a few of us locals often contribute to - https://www.facebook.com/groups/567464943318095

deacon mark

All this talk about LBS and repairs and the cost has me laughing and saying in the guitar world it is no different. I repair guitars for a living and I don't own a music store or work out of one. I am the only person within maybe a 100 mile radius who can refret your guitar, do fret leveling and set up, or take off the neck and reset. You need to go to Chicago and even then only certain music stores will be able to handle those task,.. Psimet has it right on when he says he simply does service and he does not work on the LBS model. To me that really is the wave of future bike shops. Anyone can buy a new bike and it should hopefully work for awhile but then it needs to be serviced.

If you bring me your guitar and you have to have the frets dressed and level along with a set up I have to get $60 a hour plus the cost of any material. So if someone needs a fret dressing I charge $125 plus the strings. It takes me two hours but like repairing a bike it can vary. Sometimes things go well and I can be done in a hour. Other times I have to keep tweaking and might go more than 2 but hopefully not close to 3.

Since I can repair guitars, I can also repair bikes and build them actually they are much less complicated than guitars. I never ever take my bike to the LBS and build my own wheels but one has to invest time and money in learning plus tools. To replace a spoke and true the wheel $60 seems like a pretty decent deal for sure. LBS do not work on the model of an independent bike shop taking on anything that walks in the door. To me these are the shops that shine in the darkness. They are around and I know them they will get my business if I need them because inside they have to know what makes a bike work themselves.

Psimet2001 

It's the non-warranty stuff too. Example - guy bought a set of ENVE wheels used off Pros closet. Took them to a local shop because one, that was set up tubeless, was slowly losing air. it was a trek shop. The tech there put new rim tape on it and inflated it. *BOOM*

Blew the whole side of the rim off.

Shop guy goes, "I've never seen that happen. That's a defective rim. You should take that up with ENVE." Customer is like, "I wasn't the original buyer." They shrugged and said, "We've never built on carbon. There's this guy that builds carbon wheels. Try him." and sent him my way. I take the time to track down a rep and find out it's a common occurrence. The nipple beds, because they're molded, create a tight enough interface between the nipple and the rim that they become air tight. Then if the tubeless tape fails then the lower rim chamber gets pressurized like the upper tire side does. Their rims can't handle that hoop stress and *BOOM*. Instead of calling it a problem they call it a feature and tell everyone it's because they didn't use the official ENVE tubeless valves. Ones where the nut to tighten them against the rim is off centered drilled to allow for air that escapes into the lower chamber to vent from the rim instead of pressurizing it.

I process a claim, get a rim at cost, swap the rim, explain the problem, and get the guy going again.

So to your point - big shops just don't have the knowledge or expertise to handle anything that is beyond getting on to their dealer portal and filling out a claim form and getting a new part. Us service shops just know how to fix stuff and get people rolling again.

Again on the "simple machine" stuff. 10 Years ago I would agree. It's not that way anymore. Most of the problems and fixes I do aren't simple installs or adjustments. They're troubleshooting electrical systems or hydraulic systems. They involve an ever increasing number of specialized tools and background knowledge and even then the actual fixes are never really in a book, on a video, or in a forum because the root cause is usually not found before the OEM says, "tell the customer to buy a new one".

Externally routed, mechanical, rim brake with a standard English threaded BB days are over. Now it's suspensions, droppers, Odd ball BB standards or proprietary headshock BS, strange internal frame routings, and known electrical issues that the OE claims don't happen but there's forums full of people with the same issues. We've taken a simple pen and paper thought making a word processor would help make writing faster and ended up with twitter.

N2deep

Think of bike prices this way, Dicks, XYZ sports and many other can sell a functioning dirt bike for $500 and still make 20%. The manhours, tooling and expertise required to manufacture that $500 bike is not a lot different than a $7000 bike. The major differences are materials (add 25%-40% onto the cost of materials) and finish work for the components (add 25% for machine, paint and hand work) and you come close to the true costs of the premium bikes. You state that the LBSs are not making a killing but maybe the 3 or 4 Chinese manufacturers/monopolies that make 90% of all bikes (Trek, Spech, everyone) is making a killing. Maybe instead of buying from the bike box stores (Trek/Spech/Etc) maybe we should buy from the little guys. .

Psimet2001 

Long ago on here I used to quote a bunch of numbers from the NBDA that stated the average net profit for bike shop operations being in the 3-5% range on average for a well functioning store. That was numbers from the 90's through about 2015.

That's also NET operating margin. Total shop profit. This is after salaries, overhead, insurance, blah blah blah. Everything. It's not bad either. ...but that's $50k on a store selling $1M annually. Assuming the owner is paying themselves a salary then they have roughly $50k to pay down debt, buy a shop van, or give themselves or their mechanics a small bump at the end of the year..... or to buy themself a bike.

No one except for the big 3 are getting rich doing this stuff.

People freak when they hear 4%. "I heard margin on bikes was 30-40%"...yeah that's gross margin. Now go pay everyone and everything.

genejockey 

If I say anything to MY wife about a bike shortage, she's likely to wave her hand at the 10 bikes in the garage and say it's my fault!

Sy Reene

This might make the wrench science type of online configurators be a bit more successful. https://www.wrenchscience.com/road/frames/
Certainly an appeal to choosing from a lot of brands and bikes that aren't the big 3 and speccing how you want it built.

W2.Sprague

I know this... biking used to be a somewhat cheap form of outdoor enjoyment and exercise for all ages in road biking. Now a good bike with components most 30mi riders use is like buying a car... most "young" 20 somethings will not buy those bikes because of life events, starting a career, etc... I seem to see only middle class 30+ people probably single or with good incomes on good road bikes now. I have to work a part time job just to fund my expensive hobby and to justify to my wife because its not coming out of our main income. Even price of helmets, shorts, jerseys, gloves, not to mention super expensive repairs and replacements, etc. Last year I bet I spent at $1000 just on that stuff... And I thought golf and fishing was expensive.


Concerning the so called bubble that is going to remain to be seen... General wage and overhead inflation may prevent a price dropping to old time levels even though demand has slowed for bikes. Seems like manufacturers have gotten into trend setting now and recasting for the new thing and manufacturing cost for that is going up. Example is like every thing seems to be going from mechanical we've had forever to the new wireless electronic group sets... i.e. Dura Ace, Ultegra, and Hydraulic disk brakes. Try to find today a new good road bike with mechanical Shimano Ultegra or Dura Ace with rim brakes. Like nobody now wants a flip phone now but the newest $1000+ IPhone with a $100 per month cell phone package.

mstateglfr 

I fear change and will cling to my simple drivetrain until the last strand of cable snaps.

WhyFi

Lol.

Hiro11

Yes, I posted here to "misrepresent" for... reasons? You guys are ridiculous: you call me a liar, say I'm "laughable" and then when you get called out, resort to goalpost shifting and name calling.

Hiro11

I didn't "imply" anything.

I live ~30 minutes to the southeast from you. You can probably guess which shop I'm talking about, it's well known. I've had similar bad experiences with another shop in the area years ago.

Koyote

What goalpost got shifted?

WhyFi

lololol

This from the guy that went from "$95 to fix a broken spoke..." to "well, it was set up tubeless, so the tire had to be removed, sealant cleaned up, rim tape removed, spoke replaced, the whole wheel needed a major truing, it was re-taped, and the tire re-seated." That's some comedy gold.

Koyote

And hey, if the spoke was on the rear drive-side, then they also had to remove (and re-install) the cassette, too. But if you're Hiro11 , that's all part of "something simple like fixing a broken spoke."

GhostRider62

Bikes are simple to work on. At least all mine are

The only job I can't do is ream or face, the cost of the tool makes no sense but many shops don't have them either.

Branko D

Well, you could satisfy yourself with less... but you won't. There's a perfectly functioning road bike, in stock, in the local Decathlon store with 105, rim brakes, Fulcrum racing 6 wheels, alloy frame and CF fork for a bit less than a thousand Euro. It's a lot of bike for the money, really. Hell, you can get a perfectly adequate road bike with Microshift stuff on it (which works just fine) for half that.

The kit can be also had at all sorts of price points, too. I have a good amount of budget kit which is really perfectly adequate (mostly from the local Decathlon store, their upper end of the range is actually good), but I also have come Castelli kit and a nice bike with (mechanical) Dura-ace and CF wheels because, well, I am closer to 40 than to 30 and I can afford it. These are, however, to an extent, luxury goods.

The current 20 year olds shouldn't feel too bad; you don't get very much for the extra cash, and when they're closing on 40 imagine what sort of awesomeness will be on sale for the middle aged men in lycra then, eh?

prj71

If you are spending that much on that stuff you are doing it wrong. Amazon is your friend.

Fishing is expensive. I fly fish. Fly rods are about $800-$1000. Fly reels $200-$300. Fly Line is $70-$80. A good pair of waders is $400-$500.

I have 4 fly rods and matching reels, 4 pairs of waders, miscellaneous other fly fishing gear such as chest pack, fly box , flies, tippet etc. Do the math.

GhostRider62

For counterfeit chains, tires, etc.

It is really easy to spend $1000 on bike stuff in a year. 250 on a helmet, 200 on bibs, 150 for new tires every 2 months, chains, radar sensing light, etc.

sloppy12

Should have used amazon. you could have gotten all that for $250 and had it in two days. lol