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Anything particularly unsafe about flat bars???

Old 11-06-21, 01:51 AM
  #26  
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A couple of years ago I did a 100K charity ride and us guys in the lead pack kept a really stong pace. One of the riders was a guy even older than me (I'm 53) and he was on a Giant Fastroad carbon flat bar bike with a ton of money in parts. Can't remember what group but it was high end SRAM. He even had carbon tubular wheels. He was one of the strongest riders and he certainly wasn't in any danger haha. He had shorty bar ends and kept a nice aero position. Ever since then I've thought of getting a bike like that, it was cool as hell.
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Old 11-06-21, 04:34 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Miele Man
I asked a bike shop here in Waterloo Region Canada about a straight bar bike on a group ride and they said it was a no go. They also said it was because a lot of riders of straight bar bikes didn't have the skills needed to ride in a group. Perhaps this lady was of the same opinion?

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The type of bars that the person is using have nothing to do with the riders skill or fitness level...What the bike shop told you is BS.
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Old 11-06-21, 04:46 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
I would imagine by "unsafe" she meant that you might be riding in the group with wide bars and your elbows sticking out. Anyway that's the best I can come up with for a reason.
My drop bars have a little bit of a flare and they measure 44 cm wide at the hoods and 48 cm at the drops...my flat bars measure 53 cm...That's not much difference.
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Old 11-06-21, 06:03 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
My drop bars have a little bit of a flare and they measure 44 cm wide at the hoods and 48 cm at the drops...my flat bars measure 53 cm...That's not much difference.
But presumably you hold your flat bars with your palms down, so your elbows naturally stick out more. When you are on the tops of your drop bars, your hands are much closer together.
My flat bars are 76 cm (mtb)
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Old 11-06-21, 06:08 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Ryan_M
Yeah I've heard that lots so I'm not going to argue, seems most people have this opinion. I do have horns for some extra hand possitions. I've done multiple 100km+ rides and never felt that was an issue. On the flip side the GF and I recently did an "intro to the velodrome" ride for fun. I'm not totally inactive, my job is physical often, I cycle obviously, do weights, cross train/personal trainer with the GF the odd time, occasionally play tennis etc... Riding at the velodrome was the first time I'd riden drops in a very long time and I couldn't get over how exhausted my upper body was riding on them, and we were only doing a few minutes here and there. I guess everybody has their thing.


I know flat bars can get really wide (and for good reason as cyccommute mentions) but mine are 600mm. That's more or less how wide my shoulders are, so unless these grannies bump shoulders and jockey for position thats a hard argument lol.
But your elbows will be considerably wider than your shoulders when you are holding those bars. Just sayin...
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Old 11-06-21, 06:16 AM
  #31  
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Once I looked into joining a local non-racing club ride and it was road bikes only.
I think the reason is presumed hybrids and MTB's would not be able to keep up with proper road bikes and slow the no-drop rides.
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Old 11-06-21, 06:28 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Ryan_M
"Oh, we ride road bikes. You wouldn't be able to keep up. Besides they wouldn't let you ride anyway, flat bars are too unsafe, you need to have drop bars"
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Old 11-06-21, 06:32 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by CAT7RDR
Once I looked into joining a local non-racing club ride and it was road bikes only.
I think the reason is presumed hybrids and MTB's would not be able to keep up with proper road bikes and slow the no-drop rides.
nah it's their ego. was riding a long rail trail one time, on a hybrid, the kind w/ front shocks. passed a "kitted" wanna-be roadie & that ticked him off. he sped up & as he passed me he said: "I'm not getting passed by a hybrid, that's a hybrid right?" it was a rhetorical question so I pretty much ignored him, kept my pace & passed him again
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Old 11-06-21, 06:36 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by cubewheels
fall scenario and getting poked by the flatbar
didn't start falling until I started using a MTB (w/bar ends) off road. racking up the falls. haven't been poked yet. getting better at falling tho!
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Old 11-06-21, 06:41 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
The type of bars that the person is using have nothing to do with the riders skill or fitness level...What the bike shop told you is BS.
I imagine that this is true. It's interesting though that some bicycle shops do not want to mix dropbar and straightbar bikes on a group ride. I wonder why that is t hen? Perhaps it's more related to the sustained speed they want to maintain? I don't know.

Cheers
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Old 11-06-21, 07:09 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6
nah it's their ego. was riding a long rail trail one time, on a hybrid, the kind w/ front shocks. passed a "kitted" wanna-be roadie & that ticked him off. he sped up & as he passed me he said: "I'm not getting passed by a hybrid, that's a hybrid right?" it was a rhetorical question so I pretty much ignored him, kept my pace & passed him again
Had a similar incidence, passed a woman and her man on a MUP on my 29er.
He got bent out of shape and sprinted past me then realized he left her in the dust and had to slow and wait for her.

I am about 3 mph slower on the same route on my fully rigid 35 lbs 29er than my 17 lbs endurance road bike.
On a "D" ride, that averages 14-15 mph, on a fairly flat route, I would be able to keep up with road bike cyclists for about 30 miles before fading.
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Old 11-06-21, 07:40 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by CAT7RDR
Once I looked into joining a local non-racing club ride and it was road bikes only.
I think the reason is presumed hybrids and MTB's would not be able to keep up with proper road bikes and slow the no-drop rides.
I don't think it had anything to do with fitness level and not being able to keep up with the group...It's more about " looks". These elitist club riders have their own definition of what a "real cyclist should look like " and they won't allow any person to join them on a ride unless that person fits their definition of a " real cyclist".
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Old 11-06-21, 07:49 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Miele Man
I imagine that this is true. It's interesting though that some bicycle shops do not want to mix dropbar and straightbar bikes on a group ride. I wonder why that is t hen? Perhaps it's more related to the sustained speed they want to maintain? I don't know.

Cheers
The thing is that drop bars are not any faster than flat bars. Majority of people who use drop bars have their hands on the hoods which is very similar to having your hands on the flat bars. There is no aero differences between the two. You only gain some aero advantage when riding in the drops, and that is very rare because majority of these " fake pros " don't even have enough mobility to ride in the drops.
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Old 11-06-21, 07:58 AM
  #39  
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I think this person likely heard that flat pedals were less safe and got that confused flat bars.

The former is mostly nonsense (it depends on the pedals and shoes) the latter is pure, 100% nonsense.
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Old 11-06-21, 08:08 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Ryan_M
You know what? I think you're right with this one and OMG I'm triggered!!! lol

..................................
But they think us flat bar people don't know what we're doing!!!

Before I get flamed, I'm having a bit of fun with this. I'm not saying all of you drop bar people are like BMW drivers, just this particular group lol!
Luckily I don't come across groups like that on my rides in the North Okanagan.
Generally speaking it's the old "There's a big difference between talking a good job and doing a good job".

PS, the XC skiing season has been delayed by a week, too much hot air drifting North from the South.
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Old 11-06-21, 08:15 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Kapusta
I think this person likely heard that flat pedals were less safe and got that confused flat bars.

The former is mostly nonsense (it depends on the pedals and shoes) the latter is pure, 100% nonsense.
BTW there's nothing that a pair of half toe clips won't fix on flat pedals.
https://www.amazon.ca/Zefal-Cristophe-Mountain-Bicycle-Clips/dp/B002NGS9ZW/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=half+toe+clips&qid=1636208033&s=sports&sr=1-3
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Old 11-06-21, 08:21 AM
  #42  
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I have been a member of a large 400 member cycling club for about 25 years. We have no rules about new members using flat bars when they join us. However, every single person who has joined and remained with us has eventually switched to a drop bar bike. We do however prohibit aero bars on group rides for the same reason they are not permitted for mass start road races.
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Old 11-06-21, 09:55 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Ryan_M

I know flat bars can get really wide (and for good reason as cyccommute mentions) but mine are 600mm. That's more or less how wide my shoulders are, so unless these grannies bump shoulders and jockey for position thats a hard argument lol.
You have some pretty wide shoulders. Might be interesting to have some custom 60cm drop bars made :-)
I'd guess the original taboo about flat bars comes from basically the width issue in groups; greater likelihood for contact with another rider if the bar width exceeds by much your own body's width. Even slower category groups sometimes do a rotating paceline. Dropping off the front to the left, I imagine one would want consistency in how far to the right the riders will be as you drop back, and not have worry about slaloming further out based on large variances in bar widths. I do agree it should be a non-issue as described for a D-group level situation though.
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Old 11-06-21, 11:20 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene
You have some pretty wide shoulders. Might be interesting to have some custom 60cm drop bars made :-)
I'd guess the original taboo about flat bars comes from basically the width issue in groups; greater likelihood for contact with another rider if the bar width exceeds by much your own body's width. Even slower category groups sometimes do a rotating paceline. Dropping off the front to the left, I imagine one would want consistency in how far to the right the riders will be as you drop back, and not have worry about slaloming further out based on large variances in bar widths. I do agree it should be a non-issue as described for a D-group level situation though.
This is what I was getting at. Unless your flat bars are very narrow, your overall width is considerably higher because of the way you hold flat bars vs drop bars. When you ride drop bars on the hoods, your hand position is roughly vertical, vs horizontal on flat bars. The latter position rotates your elbows outward. A modern MTB with wide bars is the extreme of this, with your hands and elbows well outside of your shoulders.
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Old 11-06-21, 11:24 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
The thing is that drop bars are not any faster than flat bars. Majority of people who use drop bars have their hands on the hoods which is very similar to having your hands on the flat bars. There is no aero differences between the two. You only gain some aero advantage when riding in the drops, and that is very rare because majority of these " fake pros " don't even have enough mobility to ride in the drops.
This is not factually correct in the slightest.
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Old 11-06-21, 01:01 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Ryan_M
there's 4 levels and she rides with level 4 (the slowest)

When it came up that I rode a flat bar her response was "Oh, we ride road bikes. You wouldn't be able to keep up. Besides they wouldn't let you ride anyway, flat bars are too unsafe, you need to have drop bars".
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Old 11-06-21, 01:09 PM
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The reason some cycling clubs don’t want you to show up with flat bars or flat pedals is not because they’re afraid you’re going to be slow.

They are afraid you’re going to keep up.
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Old 11-06-21, 02:12 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
This is not factually correct in the slightest.
Feel free to correct me and let me know which part of my post is incorrect.
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Old 11-06-21, 05:03 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
Feel free to correct me and let me know which part of my post is incorrect.
Pretty much all of it.

Starting with the hoods on a drop bar, they are actually the most aero position if you bend your forearms parallel to the ground. This position is more aero than actually riding in the drops.
Riding more upright on the hoods is still more aero than a flat bar, which will tend to push your elbows further out because of your flat grip.

This video shows the different positions quite well (although it's not very scientific) and a cheat using flat bars to achieve an aero position (at the expense of control and no brakes!)

Incidentally this video also nicely demonstrates how much wider your elbows naturally stick out on a flat bar compared to a drop-bar, but these are quite wide bars. But it's the flat grip that tends to push out your elbows compared to a vertical grip on the hoods. Would it be more dangerous riding side-by-side in a group? Well it would require more road space for sure.


Also here are some aero numbers for various positions on a drop-bar.

https://cyclingtips.com/2021/05/real...s-are-fastest/
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Old 11-06-21, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Pretty much all of it.

Starting with the hoods on a drop bar, they are actually the most aero position if you bend your forearms parallel to the ground. This position is more aero than actually riding in the drops.
Riding more upright on the hoods is still more aero than a flat bar, which will tend to push your elbows further out because of your flat grip.

This video shows the different positions quite well (although it's not very scientific) and a cheat using flat bars to achieve an aero position (at the expense of control and no brakes!)

Incidentally this video also nicely demonstrates how much wider your elbows naturally stick out on a flat bar compared to a drop-bar, but these are quite wide bars. But it's the flat grip that tends to push out your elbows compared to a vertical grip on the hoods. Would it be more dangerous riding side-by-side in a group? Well it would require more road space for sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqSbc0qjVZk

Also here are some aero numbers for various positions on a drop-bar.

https://cyclingtips.com/2021/05/real...s-are-fastest/
The aero differences between the two are very small, and become even smaller if those flat bars are narrower and have bar ends.
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