Doug Fattic 

Masi Gran Criterium frames are one of the best frames made in the era. That is why people love them compared to their competition in that time period. Most often a collector wants a Masi now because he could not afford one when he was a teenager or young adult. The one variance that has been pointed out is that they did not consistently have dead level top tubes. I bet you and most others would never notice the slight slope unless we showed you. The other variance talked about in this subject thread is in the way Masi measured and marketed the size of his frames. He did it center to top of the lug tip. Other builders measure and market their frames in a different way. That can create some confusion (your understanding would be a good example). But that doesn't have to do anything with poor workmanship going out the door.

One aspect of frames of the classic 60' and 70's era is that the market for even top end bicycles were to poor Europeans. Rich people drove cars. So they had to be priced low or the people that wanted them couldn't afford them. I paid $350 for mine in 1972. It was a complete bicycle with all Campy parts. In order to make a frame/bicycle that cheap, they had to build the frame in approximately one day - which the builder would only be paid the equivalent of a few dollars. That doesn't leave a lot of time to fuss with the details. The best American builders that basically market to the upper middle class can take 100 hours to make one frame and charge accordingly. And by the way when you are working for yourself those 100 hours have to include 2 or 3 times more hours doing basic business that is not related to working at the bench.

It hasn't been clear to me your purpose of asking about frame size. Are you wanting to get a Masi and now need to know what size to look for? Or something else? We can help you but we need more information.

merziac

They are all that because the market and history has deemed it so.

The nuances we are drilling down on here are not that big of a deal to the average buyer then or now, especially when they take it for a ride and decide its fine for them. The average person doesn't know the difference in a degree or cm here or there and I would think that a skew here or there would help just as often as not since no two bodies are the same.

While two people might take the same size frame, the fit for each person could be very different between the two for different body proportions.

buddiiee 

Ahh ok, all makes sense now. It's soo awesome the people that exist on this board. I am thankful the experts find the time to show up here and ******** with us. The knowledge you guys bring here in one thread would take me months to compile on my own through other various resources both in person and on line. Saves me a bunch of time too!
The initial reason for this specific thread was to try and understand the whys and hows of I guess not only Masi's frames but most of the other coveted Italian frames. I wanted that info so that (like you said) I can be better informed when searching for just the right Masi frame should I come across one, and at the right price. (I'm thinking I'm going to have to save a bit more for one lol) AND, to understand if they even made them for my size because like the original post, if all these Italian frames were for Italians in Italy, why are they so big? lol. My whole family's short, and when I lived overseas and visited Italy, no one there was riding 56cm frames I promise you lol. So I was like precisely WHO is masi building 3000 dollar, behemoth frames for?!?! Lottery winning Vikings only? Italians are poor and short! lol. I wanted to see if this thing even existed before I spent any more months of my life pouring over websites that will never produce a true 50cm frame.

Because of you guys my focus is a bit more clear; save more money, and ask every single seller how the frame was measured lol.

merziac

You need to keep in mind that many sellers don't understand or care about this all that much either, they will often tell you what they think you want to here.

And many/most are not going to get an accurate measurement either anyway, partly because its not easy and partly because there are too many different standards, IMO they all take an understanding many/most don't have.

buddiiee 

Yea, most people don't like to learn. When I get into something, I need to know I'm doing it right.

merziac

A good way to go and can be time consuming but pays off in spades in the long run.

Road Fan

Hi, Buddiee, Let me clarify the measurements of my MC53: I stand by the heights I measured and shared earlier in this thread: BB to seat lug peak is 53.0 cm, BB to seat lug center is 51.0 cm, and BB to top of top tube is 52.3 cm, deleting the thickness of the seat lug.

The standover height for my bike is 77.0 cm or 30.3 inches with 23 mm tires. My tire radius is about 34 cm and the BB axle to ground is about 27 cm, so the BB drop is about 7 cm. I ride this with 170 mm cranks. For me this frame is a little too small, but nominally you would need to go 1" less than mine, so I think you would need an MC50, as my personal estimate. I think both Doug and Repechage gave you similar estimates. I think the reason you do not find any is that the sizes at the tall and short ends of humanity were built in the smallest quantities. Presumably the statistics of attrition are uniform, so there were fewer frames to be lost, and the number of survivors could be very small. I would say if you find one MC50, pay what it costs and restore it as needed.

The head tube on mine is very short and so is the steer tube. As well, there is a butt where the steerer is brazed onto the fork crown which restricts the insertion of a stem. On mine Nitto wedge-clamped stems cannot be inserted far enough to clear the safety line. A Cinelli cone-wedge, a 3T cone-wedge, and a Nitto Pearl with a cone-wedge will clear the safety line, but those leave you precious little height adjustment ability. For me I ride this bike with 3 or 4 cm drop saddle to bar which is not impossible, but I do prefer a 2 cm drop or even less. I would probably be better off with a MC54 or even MC55 Gran Criterium, but I would not buy one without a good set of measurements where I can confirm what dimensions I am getting. Or have a Doug Fattic make me one ...

Not to denigrate the informative and authoritative discussion lead by Doug and repechage, but I wanted to clarify that my frame is probably not what you are looking for. If you could actually see my frame your opinion may differ, but keep looking.

buddiiee 

I see. Thank you sir; appreciate the info.