migman

OK, so I am excited to go pickup my late 80s Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra that I won on eBay. I was a little concerned because it came from overseas. I pick up the box and feel a tell-tale thunk whenever I move the box from side to side. Great I think, the shipper didn't stabilize the frame inside the box before he closed it. I get home, grab my camera, and start to unpack. To my horror here is what I found upon opening the box







That's right...not a stitch of packing material to be found, so I start inspecting for damage. To my amazement it appears to be remarkably unscathed. Just some minor rubbing on the head tube(second pic) from the box, which came right off. No dents, the dropouts are straight, and no bent tubes from eyeballing it. The little box you see in the second pic contains the fork which was also not wrapped. It it just beyond comprehension that someone would think that this is acceptable packing. The scary part is that this does not appear to be the first frame the seller has sold. Yikes!

I guess I'll count myself lucky(?) and focus on getting her built up now

cuda2k

Wow, just wow.

AEO

I've had worse.
Wheel was flying around in the box with unprotected frame. Scratched and chipped the paint where the axel hit.
At least he boxed the fork so that it wouldn't be metal on metal. But the least I'd expect is the entire frame wrapped in bubble wrap :-/

SoreFeet

I would leave a neutral feedback and say the seller must learn to better package bikes. Wow you got lucky.

I was really worried when I shipped my last two frames via ebay. One buyer did not leave feedback the other said "nice packing job."

I really had to cut the hell out of the box to get the shipping rate to be reasonable. I had the headtube flush with the box...but it came in one solid piece.

How much did you have to pay for shipping? I see a lot of people shipping bicycles for dirt cheap VIA ebay. It seems like a lot of people are either losing money on shipping charges or making love to postal clerks for a heft discount.

cuda2k

Last frame I recieved was from BF'er s70rguy, came all the way from the Netherlands. Excellent packing job (photos in the Gazelle #2 thread in this forum). Before that BF'er Lowcel shipped me a full carbon frameset, think you could have just about jumped up and down on that box without damage to the frame. I reused that packing material plus about half a roll of packing tape (on the inside of the box) when I shipped a frameset back in December. Shipping was only about $20 for that frameset. Shipping full bikes, even within the US, gets much more expensive, and fast.

McDave

Oh I've received packaging just as bad. Unfortunately it was a complete bike so all the parts were left to rattle around and damage the frame. He even placed the little parts in one of those old style sandwich bags with the flap, then taped the flap to the inside of the box leaving the bag open! Of course all the little bits left through the holes in the worn out bike box he packed it in. Then he had the gall to start bugging me for feedback. Boy did he get an earful! I hope you take the time to educate the seller.

evwxxx

I did this for a camera lense I got on ebay. The lense was literally rolling around in the box. Unbelievable, especially that it was undamaged. When I told the seller about it, and that I was going to leave "neutral" feedback, they admitted they had a new packer working their, but that they did not feel they deserved "neutral" feedback since the item arrived undamaged, and they said they would have to "protect" their reputation if I left neutral feed back by leaving same for me! What a krok! I left the neutral feedback, and sure enough they left same for me, saying I was "unreasonable". Sometimes ebay just does not give you enough space to explain the situation,,,,

Grand Bois

Buyers can no longer receive neutral or negative feedback on eBay. It's about time they made that change!

miamijim

How much was actual shipping versus what you were charged?

justinb

A bit off topic, but that's a sweet frame, and I'm glad it was undamaged.

Now get her on the road!

Louis

Mmmmm...that is one juicy frame. I'd love to see pics of the build.

dobber

Since there was no damage, maybe the sellers onto something.

I got a Cross-Check frame from QBP a couple years ago. Packed in the usual Surly/QBP manner. I also ordered a Shimano bottom bracket, the box of which was just tossed inside the bigger box. Guess what became a pinball?

iab

I really don't want to pick a fight (alright, that is not entirely true or else I shouldn't post ), but that is exactly the reason why ebay stopped buyers from leaving neutral or negative feedback.

The fact is, the bike is fine, there is no problem other than that you "disapprove" of the packing job. He paid for the frame, the frame is fine, people weren't bidding on how well the frame was packed.

Now if the frame was damaged because of the poor packing job, the seller should have the right to fix the problem before someone leaves bad feedback. If the seller makes good, the worst thing that happened was that you are disappointed you didn't get your frame - boo hoo, cry me a river.

BikeManDan

I do not agree
The poor packing speaks for the seller. The seller does not pack items well and other buyers should know about that. The OP got lucky, someone else might not get lucky next time

Ex Pres 

I asked my LBS about shipping the other day, and as a commercial shipper he says the most it costs them to ship a complete bike anywhere in the US was ~ $35 (Plus the shipper picks it up from the shop). I used a large Scott box from them one time to ship a 25" frame complete bike and the added size added $40 to my UPS bill ($105 total ).

I've also shipped a bare frame in a box that just made it under the USPS Priority mail limits and shipped it 2 days for $19. Only we infrequent shippers take it up the ### for that slightly oversize box.

And back on topic, my IRO BFSSFG frame came packed not much differently.

ollo_ollo

That's a nice frame and you were fortunate it was undamaged. I received a wheel once that had tire tracks across the outside of the mutilated box. I could only salvage the hub & got the famous USPS shrug when I complained.

rickyaustin

I couldn't disagree with this more.

Just because he lucked out and nothing happened to the frame - doesn't mean the seller did things correctly. If you are selling something like this, you have the responsibility to ship it correctly. If you don't ship things correctly and leave then susceptible to damage, you don't deserve a good seller's reputation.

That isn't a packing job. That is placing an item into a loose box to be shuttled across the country. It is unacceptable. Unless the shipping was free, the buyer has a right to be bothered by it.

rickyaustin

Beautiful frame buddy.

This makes me nervous. My Colnago is on it's way from Oregon as we speak and should be here Friday. I'm hoping mine comes thru perfectly like yours luckily has.

I bought a used Cervelo last fall and with a pretty decent packaging job, there still was damage to the frame. Axle of the wheel dented my downtube. It's ridable, but the seller did give me some money back. I left positive feedback. With the discount, the components alone are worth more than I paid for the whole thing - the frame is essentially free.

Get that thing on the road!

thadcombs

Yeah, I could not disagree with IAB more either.
He is completely incorrect about his statements. You ARE paying for a good packing job. How else are you supposed to receive your frame in it's advertised condition? Luck?

Torchy McFlux

But you did receive it in OK condition.
Email the sender to let them know you were disappointed in their lack of concern for your stuff, and move on.
Nobody likes a whiner.

miamijim

I'll disagree with your LBS. 12 years ago it cost me $35 to send bikes coast to coast. Recently I send a 70cm bike to Colorado, it wasnt oversized, and it cost ~$90.

Grand Bois

Of course buyers can still leave neutral or negative feedback. If you want to pick a fight with me, you'll have to do better than that. I can't argue with that kind of logic.

nlerner

Now if the seller charged a $40 packing fee on top of shipping, then I'd be p****d!

Neal

RobbieTunes

If that had been shipped UPS, there would be two frame pieces in that box.
I've gotten bikes from them that looked pretty much run over, and sent one, too.
All for the highest prices from the tightest ship in the shipping business.
It's the system, though, the Brown Truck guy is always cool.
I open every one I get now, directly in front of the driver.

iab

Some of you people have got to be kidding me.

First, shipping cost is totally irrelevant. If I am willing to spend $200 on a bike, it makes absolutely no difference if the bike was $1 and the shipping was $199 or if the bike was $199 and the shipping was $1. Guess what, it still adds up to $200, my total budget. What kind of tight-ass would you have to be to have a "bike" budget AND a "shippping" budget? I'm sorry if I offended anyone like that, but you really need to lighten-up if that is the case.

Second, that $200 gets me the bike as shown in the pictures and whatever written in the description. If the bike is different from the pictures and description, I would give the seller every opportunity to make amends. If the seller took a ballpeen hammer to the bike before packing it well, the packing is irrelevant, I would want restitution for the damage. This bike got to the buyer WITH NO PROBLEMS, again the packing is irrelevant. I will concede the seller got lucky shipping the frame with no padding, but again you are ONLY buying what is in the pictures and description.

So if getting exactly what was pictured and described warrants bad feedback, please, tell me what is the correct standard? Should the corrugate be double-walled? Should the tubes be surrounded with 3-inch-thick pipe foam? Should the ball bearings be individually wrapped? Should the address be in Helvetica Bold? Should the box be hand carried to you by 40 virgins?

Personally, I think demanding anything beyond what is advertised is in bad form and in that case the customer would be wrong.