Positron400

Heya,

I am in the process of building up a Mixtie frame and don't wanna spend silly-money on shifting. Hence I was considering some older STI-options, since i read/heard that up to 9sp, they were compatible with MTB shifters to clear a 11-34.
What should I look for in that regard? I'd preferably would like to do a 1x9 or 2x9 (even a 1x8 or 2x8). Which shifters should I look for, in terms of compatibility? And will these clamp on the older randonneuring-style drop bars (NITTO)?

BR
Positron

Hondo6

Regarding the shifter issue: except for early Dura Ace, all Shimano 6-9 indexed RDs and rear shifters used the same pull ratio (1.7:1) and were thus mutually interchangeable. Only potential "gotcha" is making sure the RD you plan to use has enough lateral movement to shift an 8/9/10 speed cassette - I've read that some early Shimano indexed derailleurs have this issue (won't move laterally far enough to shift 8/9/10 speeds).

Which shifter and RD combo you choose to use is more a question of which ones you like best and can afford. (But there is one other issue that crops up with STIs; I'll discuss that later.) Just remember to match the rear shifter with the cassette you intend to use (e.g., 8-speed shifter with 8-speed cassette).

The situation is reportedly a bit different with FDs. I understand Shimano road and mountain FDs diverged during the early SIS era and don't necessarily "play nice" if you mismatch shifters and FDs (e.g., mountain indexed front shifter with road FD or vice versa). Haven't done this personally, so I can't verify or refute this point from personal experience. I have seen accounts where people indicate they made such a combo work, but I can't really say how common or how difficult that is.

Regarding the drop bar question: flat bar shifters will in general NOT physically fit on a drop bar without modification, and modification may not be easy or even possible. Drop bar grip diameter is typically 23.8mm (15/16"), while flat bar grip area is typically 22.2mm (7/8"). You need to measure the bars you have - but I'd be surprised if their grip is 22.2mm.

Don't ask me how I learned this. (At least I got the NIB set of flat bar shifters currently sitting in the parts stash cheap. )

squirtdad

or just go friction? down tube, bar end, or even find and old suntour power ratchet stem shifter? and may match the designe ethos of that cool colored, head tube straight, but otherwise curvy frame

jdogg111

reading this with interest, I'm not the poster of the question, but I have one of my own, often read you can use a ten speed shifter with a nine speed cassette if u start out in nine on the shifter when you run the cable to the derailleur during initial set up while you have chain on smallest cog. Will this work ?

Positron400

Someone saw my other thread

Yes, I am considering friction, and honestly, if I were to build it for me, I would immediately, without a doubt, go downtube (or maybe barend) friction. But since I (might) build it up for someone else, I want ease of use in terms of indexing.

I just measured, and If my calippers are not totally out of whack, i'd say they are 23.8 mm diameter

Hondo6

Cog thickness and spacing is different between 9- and 10-speed. So "out of the box" and with normal installation, I doubt this would work terribly well.

Alternate cable routing on the RD might allow you to accomplish this. I've seen references to this (using 10-speed indexed shifters to shift 9 speeds with a suitable RD and alternate cable routing), but I've never tried it myself. And I think it only would work with the 1st-generation 10-speed road shifters that used Shimano's "standard" road RD pull ratio (1.7:1). Some of the later Shimano road and gravel shifters (example: Tiagra 4700) use Shimano's newer road pull ratio (1.4:1).

If you already have the parts, you could give it a shot. But I'd personally try to find someone who's done it to verify it's possible before buying new parts, and I'd ask them questions about the process and resulting shifting.

Hondo6

Being a radonneur-style drop bar, that's what I'd expect.

Well, that limits your STI choices somewhat (e.g., to Shimano drop bar STIs, or those from other manufacturers that are Shimano road compatible). But you still should have plenty of options if you decide to go that route.

dedhed

Rear triangle will need to be respaced to 130mm for a 9 speed compatible wheel

Schweinhund

Funny you say that. I was out on My (for the moment) Univega Gran Rally a couple of days ago. It's Shimano 6207 ex except the rear hub. it's a 6207 with a spin on suntour freewheel and friction shifting.
Only I didn't notice it was friction shifting. I just did it without thinking about it. I question at this point if I'd miss index shifting at all.

Camilo

Any 8 or 9 speed Shimano rear mountain bike derailleur, like Deore, LX, DX, etc, is compatible with 8, 9 or 10 speed Shimono road shifters (aka STI). You then simply match the cassette with the shifters (i.e. 8, 9 or 10 speed shifters with the same speed cassette). Same with bar-end indexed shifters.

As far as friction goes, my experience has been that 9 speed friction shifting is kind of tough to accurately and consistently. The spaces are just so small that it's easy to miss shifts, need to fiddle with trimming and experience ghost shifting. Yes it can be done, and I'm sure there's people who do it satisfactorily. But I tried and didn't like it. And I used friction shifting from the early 80s through the early 90s very happily. But they were only 5,6 and 7 cassettes and freewheels.

sweeks

I recently changed my road bike from drop bars to "trekking" bars to help with wrist arthritis.
The bike had an Ultegra 3 x 9 drivetrain with STI shifters.
I obtained a NOS XTR 9-speed rear shifter, which works perfectly with the Ultegra long-cage rear derailleur. I tried an XTR front shifter, but it does not work with the Ultegra front derailleur. I went to a friction shifter for the front, and it works surprisingly well.

Trekking bar conversion. The friction shifter is a cheap one I used to see how it would work. This has since been replaced with a Rivendell "Silver Shifter". Lots of good hand positions.

DiabloScott

One data point: 9-speed STI DT shifters, 9-speed MTB "shadow" derailleur, and 9-speed 12-34 cassette - works great.
The Dynasys rear derailleurs don't work well with road shifters.
And MTB derailleurs don't have barrel adjusters so I added one in-line.

Positron400

What STI do you use?

Yea, that's what I heard that people are concerned with. I have, however, set up my other rando bike with 2x10 in friction, and it worked flawlessly for 9k km last year. (ENE diacompe with micro ratchet). Also my Rockhopper restomod runs a microshift bar end shifter in friction - also works no problem .

delbiker1 

I recently switched my Poprad to bar end 6400 levers, 8speed, but set on friction mode. The bike has Velo-Orange Porteur bars. I am using an 11 speed cassette, 11/36, with the front being 46/38. The rear derailleur is Tiagra 4600 GS. Good grief, I am loving this set up. I find the 11 speed makes for much less travel with the lever, shifting is crisp and clean. Sure, I sometimes over shift, or have to toggle the lever just a bit to get in gear just right, no big deal. The more I use it, the less that happens. I can switch wheels, or cassette, with no adjustments necessary, including going 8-10 gears if I so choose. Now my thoughts are making it a 1X, but that, in reality, is not going to happen, no need.
Honestly, the reason I have the 11/36, Sram 1130, is because it was on sale at Jensen USA, still is, for 49.99, 11-32 is only 29.99.
Also, the chain rings, I can easily go to larger or smaller, and, depending on the combo, not have to change chain length. Friction shifting is highly forgivable and adaptable. The bar ends give easy access to the shifting with very little hand movement, depending on the set up. I do not like bar end levers with traditional or compact, drop bars.

bboy314

Been friction shifting this bike with 9 speed cassette and shadow style derailleur without issue, to give one more data point.

Though if you prefer index, it’d be pretty simple as long as you match cassette to shifter.

Positron400

Completely agree on the fact that friction is amazing. As mentioned previously, i have 2 bikes set up with friction and i absolutely love it.

DiabloScott

Sorry, not STI... SIS downtube shifters.

grumpus

That was my immediate thought - the long Suntour Power stem shifter would be just right on that frame. We had several NOS in the shop for ages that I wanted to use on something but never built the right bike.

Positron400

Ah, fair play - thanks for clarifying! The issue I have is that I have a "no-idea-how-many-speeds" RD, and a 10sp 11-34 casette. If everything were 9sp, I guess a 9sp DT shifter would be a solution (another fun fact: I have no DT bosses to mount them either )

grumpus

A quick and dirty hack is to get a 7/8 inch wooden dowel (or just whittle some random wood 'til it fits) and jam it in the end of the handlebar then you can mount a thumb shifter as a bar end shifter.

Positron400

This is a fun idea! - I am initially gonna try and use drop bars (because i prefer the aesthetic to flat bars.) - But if that fails, Imma use some flat bars.

squirtdad

think beyond mountain bike flat bars.

what would be brilliant on this bike would be a north road bar or similar bar with thumb shifters

thins about somthing like velo orange left bank https://velo-orange.com/collections/...ndlebar-config

or tourist https://velo-orange.com/collections/...lebar-22-2-dia

and throw some thumb shfiters on https://velo-orange.com/collections/...thumb-shifters or if you want indexing micro shift https://www.amazon.com/microSHIFT-Sh...36769031&psc=1

Positron400

Quick update: I caved and got me some DT-clamp on suntour friction shifters from our local co-op. Dirt cheap, including hardware (cable stop/routing/clamp on). So, should fit well and will be easy enough to get the bike on the road. Now, to get the frame cleaned up, rust converter applied, T-cut polished and built ... . I will eventually go for some form of indexed, but this was the cheapest investment to get it going asap.

Davet

It will work but you’ll have pretty crappy shifting.

I think that you have read that you can use 10-speed shifters with 9-speed DERAILLEURS, not 9-speed cassettes.

Schweinhund

I agree.