Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

What constitutes a Classic or Vintage bicycle?

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

What constitutes a Classic or Vintage bicycle?

Old 02-10-23, 11:07 AM
  #176  
reroll
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 128
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked 37 Times in 30 Posts
Originally Posted by MooneyBloke View Post
To tell the truth, I find myself here because current bicycle culture seems an alien thing to me filled with ugly bikes, watts, zwift, and strava. I find none of this inspirational.

Do I have a home?
Welcome!

I tried 10-speed but gave up on the newer technologies and now all of my bikes run on 8-speed chain although some have 9-speed derailleurs.
reroll is offline  
Old 02-10-23, 06:38 PM
  #177  
rudypyatt
Full Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 334

Bikes: Windsor TimeLine; Linus Gaston 3; Sears Free Spirit

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked 90 Times in 42 Posts
Originally Posted by MooneyBloke View Post
This leaves me confused. I have a definitely vintage bike (1980 Trek 510), but it's set up as a 3 speed townie. I have two bikes by Peter Mooney with paint inspired by the bikes of my youth, but they were made in 2000 and 2002 with Brifterized Ergo 10 of the period.

To tell the truth, I find myself here because current bicycle culture seems an alien thing to me filled with ugly bikes, watts, zwift, and strava. I find none of this inspirational.

Do I have a home?
This is exactly how I feel, though I admit I sometimes use Strava just to track my rides. But I donít quite fit because I donít have a workshop and I canít build up a vintage frame with NOS parts (NYC apartments are not big unless you earn BIG money); itís just not going to happen in-home, though I once had a shop refurbish a vintage Schwinn Speedster. Loved it even though it was a tad small, lost it to a Mack truckÖ

I tend to focus on the classic design more than actual vintage bikes, because the appeal for me is riding something that is mechanically simple and looks good. I have no interest in the latest carbon framed, hydraulic braked bikes. Brands like State, Linus, Handsome, Surly, and various models in the BikesDirectís family are what I go for precisely because they are classically styled with some mechanical updates.

Actual classics would be great. But I wonít build one up. I am happy to have access to bikes that at least look the part and use the right materials and components:

Rim brakes rule.

Steel is real.

A three speed IGH is all I need.
rudypyatt is offline  
Old 02-13-23, 11:39 AM
  #178  
Ktodd
Banned.
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Location: Washington D.C.
Posts: 14

Bikes: PXN-10LE, Bridestone RB1

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Brifters mark the end of C&V

Anything that came stock with brifters isnt C&V ...I agree with Grant Peterson I hate Index shifting so for me personally anything that came stock with friction shifting is C&V
Ktodd is offline  
Likes For Ktodd:
Old 02-14-23, 08:42 AM
  #179  
Cgnman59
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Wake County, NC
Posts: 22

Bikes: 2009 Giant FCR2, 1994 Univega Via DeOro, 1990 Schwinn Sierra MOS

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked 30 Times in 9 Posts
I would consider the early 90's Cannondale R series as vintage classic. Made of aluminum and what is now a classic design. My friend owned a '93 Cannondale R400 and gifted it to me when his eyesight failed to the point he could no longer ride. I was amazed a bike could be made of aluminum and be durable. That R400 was always a joy to ride and I owned it for 20 years before I ended up selling it after I could no longer ride it due to lower back issues. A classic design that has stood the test of time while also being mechanically simple.
Cgnman59 is offline  
Likes For Cgnman59:
Old 02-14-23, 12:10 PM
  #180  
Ktodd
Banned.
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Location: Washington D.C.
Posts: 14

Bikes: PXN-10LE, Bridestone RB1

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Ummmm

Originally Posted by Cgnman59 View Post
I would consider the early 90's Cannondale R series as vintage classic. Made of aluminum and what is now a classic design. My friend owned a '93 Cannondale R400 and gifted it to me when his eyesight failed to the point he could no longer ride. I was amazed a bike could be made of aluminum and be durable. That R400 was always a joy to ride and I owned it for 20 years before I ended up selling it after I could no longer ride it due to lower back issues. A classic design that has stood the test of time while also being mechanically simple.
Yeah idk about that one. I own 2 early 90's Klein Quantums and I don't really consider them C&V bikes. Idk about your R400 but Kleins are dropping in value every year. I dont think you can consider bikes as "collectable" if theyre continually dropping in value.
Ktodd is offline  
Old 02-22-23, 12:31 PM
  #181  
MooneyBloke
Full Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Posts: 217

Bikes: Two Peter Mooney customs, a 1980 Trek 510 townie, a Marin Stelvio set up for TTs.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 108 Post(s)
Liked 175 Times in 90 Posts
Originally Posted by Ktodd View Post
Anything that came stock with brifters isnt C&V ...I agree with Grant Peterson I hate Index shifting so for me personally anything that came stock with friction shifting is C&V
I think you're letting your prejudices and perhaps a bit of hero worship define C&V. Campag Ergopower's now thirty years old. Alan McCormack's (certainly an OG of the road circuit) Paramount from his Schwinn/Wheaties days four years earlier had Dura Ace indexed shifting. There's a nice interview where he says he prefers the ride to his six-pounds-lighter carbon frame. (He also has unkind words for the mounted SRAM group of his modern bike as well.)

My view is that the industry has absorbed a (to me offensive) brutalist aesthetic to the point that modern classic frames such as those of Richard Sachs are disfigured by the parts that hang off them. To my eye, Campag's aluminum crank with the hidden bolt was a beautiful thing, and I gag when I see the ugly drive trains that are common now. Let's not even talk about the wide billboard downtubes. My Mooneys certainly sport the maker's name there, but it's small and tasteful rather than visually screaming.

On Sach's blog, he cites the founder of Honda as saying that racing improves the breed. Trouble is that the optimizers of modern racing have no sense of aesthetic charm. I'm at an age where I don't give a rat's keister if it's aero when it's ugly as sin. To quote Sachs again: "bring back the elegance."

Last edited by MooneyBloke; 02-22-23 at 10:37 PM.
MooneyBloke is offline  
Likes For MooneyBloke:
Old 02-24-23, 05:39 PM
  #182  
rsmarion
Newbie
 
rsmarion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Hard day at work today, so needed a reason to smile. This thread did it. THanks all!

Originally Posted by Bill in VA View Post
And in knife, gun, and car collecting we call it "patina" and add $100+.
rsmarion is offline  
Old 02-24-23, 07:22 PM
  #183  
Bill in VA
Senior Member
 
Bill in VA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 724

Bikes: Current: 2016 Bianchi Volpe; 1973 Peugeot UO-8. Past: 1974 Fuji S-10-S with custom black Imron paint by Stinsman Racing of PA.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 214 Post(s)
Liked 203 Times in 141 Posts
Originally Posted by iab View Post
Ooooooooo... You going to try to see how thin the ice is again?

I honestly don't give 2 ***** about what's C&V. I see it more as watershed years. Large changes in the industry. I suppose they could be used as a definition, but again, I think debating it is silly. Of course the following is an approximation, plus or minus a couplethree years.

1887 - Pneumatic tires and safety bike.
1930 - Lug carving, use of aluminum, modern geometry, derailleurs
1951 - Parallel-o-gram derailleur, groupsets, paved roads
1983 - Indexing, clipless pedals, crabon fiber, aero

On the other hand, I know what isn't C&V. Blue bikes. They suck.
My 1973 BLUE Peugeot UO-8 would highly disagree!
Bill in VA is offline  
Likes For Bill in VA:
Old 02-25-23, 09:56 AM
  #184  
MooneyBloke
Full Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Posts: 217

Bikes: Two Peter Mooney customs, a 1980 Trek 510 townie, a Marin Stelvio set up for TTs.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 108 Post(s)
Liked 175 Times in 90 Posts
Originally Posted by Bill in VA View Post
My 1973 BLUE Peugeot UO-8 would highly disagree!
Same with my Peter Mooneys. Both are blue.
MooneyBloke is offline  
Old 02-25-23, 10:27 PM
  #185  
Aerzon
Junior Member
 
Aerzon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 92

Bikes: Raleigh Mojave 4.0, Panasonic DX1000

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked 22 Times in 15 Posts
Lots of different definitions in this thread. If, say for example, I wanted to do a thread to collect information and showcase/document a build of the following frame:

(Late 90s/Early 2000s Quattro Assi)

Would the C&V forum be an inappropriate place to do so? And at which point in time would the frame become old enough to be titled "C&V?"
Aerzon is offline  
Likes For Aerzon:
Old 02-28-23, 06:38 PM
  #186  
Puttis
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
C and V

I consider bikes that are now longer in production as vintage. Also if you have a model that a lot of people bought bak in the day, it must be considered as a classic. Those are my thoughts
Puttis is offline  
Likes For Puttis:
Old 02-28-23, 06:42 PM
  #187  
Puttis
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I have and old Nishiki with a suntour rear derailleur and gear shifts that are turning ones instead of clicking ones. But I think that bike must be from the end of the eighties or beginning of the nineties.
Will post a picture if i find one decent.
Puttis is offline  
Old 02-28-23, 07:59 PM
  #188  
Drillium Dude
Banned.
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PAZ
Posts: 12,394
Mentioned: 255 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2586 Post(s)
Liked 4,793 Times in 1,702 Posts
Originally Posted by Aerzon View Post


Hey, wait just a minute - that's a crabon fyber fork!

You heathen!



DD
Drillium Dude is offline  
Likes For Drillium Dude:
Old 03-01-23, 09:03 AM
  #189  
MooneyBloke
Full Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Posts: 217

Bikes: Two Peter Mooney customs, a 1980 Trek 510 townie, a Marin Stelvio set up for TTs.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 108 Post(s)
Liked 175 Times in 90 Posts
Originally Posted by Drillium Dude View Post
Hey, wait just a minute - that's a crabon fyber fork!

You heathen!



DD
Not to mention likely welded alumin(i)um.
MooneyBloke is offline  
Likes For MooneyBloke:
Old 03-01-23, 10:14 AM
  #190  
Aerzon
Junior Member
 
Aerzon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 92

Bikes: Raleigh Mojave 4.0, Panasonic DX1000

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked 22 Times in 15 Posts
Originally Posted by Drillium Dude View Post
Hey, wait just a minute - that's a crabon fyber fork!

You heathen!



DD
I'm scared of having it in my house... It could assplode at any second! I don't even think my renter's insurance would cover damages caused by spontaneous combustion(s) of crabon fibber objects, as any self respecting gentleman would know better than to disgrace his household with such modern, black magic lunacies.


(Thinking out loud begins here) Ahem.... Anyway... It might seem silly to post it here, given that it's threadless equipped, carbon fiber forked, and could be a viable weight weenie build. I get that. On the other hand, to many people, that frame is "too old" and anything 20+ is "vintage" to them. I was scrolling on another cycling page one day and saw someone refer to Ultegra from 2003 as "ancient." I saw another say they wouldn't ride aluminum from that time period and that it needs to be retired. On the other hand, to many members here, that frame is way too new for this forum. Different perspectives.
I suppose it depends on whether you consider very early 2000s frames with horizontal top tubes to fit under the C&V umbrella just yet. At some point they'll have to, it's just a matter of when that will be. I'm not personally sure. Maybe the definition of C&V should just be "any bike which GCN would refer to as retro in a video title."
I could put my upcoming build thread in "Early Brifter Bikes," but it's rather...... *crickets* around there. I guess it doesn't matter too much, it's mostly for my documentation and maybe the occasional ask for advice.


​​​​
Aerzon is offline  
Likes For Aerzon:
Old 03-01-23, 10:26 AM
  #191  
MooneyBloke
Full Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Posts: 217

Bikes: Two Peter Mooney customs, a 1980 Trek 510 townie, a Marin Stelvio set up for TTs.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 108 Post(s)
Liked 175 Times in 90 Posts
Originally Posted by Aerzon View Post
I'm scared of having it in my house... It could assplode at any second! I don't even think my renter's insurance would cover damages caused by spontaneous combustion(s) of crabon fibber objects, as any self respecting gentleman would know better than to disgrace his household with such modern, black magic lunacies.
​​
Thanks for the warning. My place might need an exorcism myself.


Omitted: the Shamal 12-HPWs that were my TT thingies back when I was foolish enough to enter those sorts of things.
MooneyBloke is offline  
Likes For MooneyBloke:
Old 03-24-23, 12:27 AM
  #192  
5colellla
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 13

Bikes: 2013 Trek 8.5 DS, 1992 Schwinn Crisscross, 1993 Schwinn Crosscut, 1993 Schwinn Crossfit

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked 14 Times in 3 Posts
if it old and you like then is itís C&V
5colellla is offline  
Old 03-26-23, 08:38 AM
  #193  
MooneyBloke
Full Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Posts: 217

Bikes: Two Peter Mooney customs, a 1980 Trek 510 townie, a Marin Stelvio set up for TTs.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 108 Post(s)
Liked 175 Times in 90 Posts
Originally Posted by 5colellla View Post
if it old and you like then is it’s C&V
I think the main dispute is what counts as old. Some of the tech some consider newfangled is at least two decades old now. I think there is a strong demarcation between what is considered a conventional road bike these days and what that was even two decades ago.

Here's a video depicting a Gilco tubed Colnago equipped with Shimano STI:

I certainly think the paint is loud, and I don't have much fondness for straight bladed forks, but it certainly predates the watershed that I take as the distinction between vintage and modern.

I think it's the rise of a brutalist aesthetic complete with loud downtube branding, the increase in complexity and cost, and the tendency of more and more parts to have shorter lifespans (e.g. design strictly for weight savings at the expense of durability), that are my turn-offs in regards to the current road bike.

Last edited by MooneyBloke; 03-27-23 at 06:01 AM.
MooneyBloke is offline  
Likes For MooneyBloke:
Old 03-26-23, 11:23 PM
  #194  
SurferRosa
seŮor miembro
 
SurferRosa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 7,317

Bikes: Old school lightweights

Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3143 Post(s)
Liked 4,681 Times in 2,444 Posts
I know it when I see it.
SurferRosa is offline  
Old 03-27-23, 06:03 AM
  #195  
MooneyBloke
Full Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Posts: 217

Bikes: Two Peter Mooney customs, a 1980 Trek 510 townie, a Marin Stelvio set up for TTs.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 108 Post(s)
Liked 175 Times in 90 Posts
Originally Posted by SurferRosa View Post
I know it when I see it.
So vintage and classic bikes are pornographic?
MooneyBloke is offline  
Old 03-31-23, 01:29 PM
  #196  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 12,453

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 245 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3920 Post(s)
Liked 4,831 Times in 2,838 Posts
Originally Posted by MooneyBloke View Post
So vintage and classic bikes are pornographic?
Ya think?
merziac is offline  
Old 04-01-23, 12:54 AM
  #197  
stoneageyosh
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2023
Location: Bandon, Oregon
Posts: 87

Bikes: Dave Tesch Model 100 Custom Reynolds 753 / Custom Panasonic built by Takao Ono (1973)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked 97 Times in 55 Posts
Originally Posted by SurferRosa View Post
I know it when I see it.
This is going to be greatly influenced by the age of the beholder. A forty year old would probably say anything before 2000 is old. Others, ahem, however, idea of old is more like downtube shifter era bikes. Classic Rendezvous is of that mindset and there are others across a variety of interests. There is already a wide range in the ages of bikes being discussed here, which indicates that the C&V scene is evolving as younger enthusiasts join the party. Someday they will be the old farts answering questions about how it was ďback in the dayĒ.
stoneageyosh is offline  
Old 04-01-23, 06:14 AM
  #198  
MooneyBloke
Full Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Posts: 217

Bikes: Two Peter Mooney customs, a 1980 Trek 510 townie, a Marin Stelvio set up for TTs.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 108 Post(s)
Liked 175 Times in 90 Posts
Originally Posted by stoneageyosh View Post
This is going to be greatly influenced by the age of the beholder. A forty year old would probably say anything before 2000 is old. Others, ahem, however, idea of old is more like downtube shifter era bikes. Classic Rendezvous is of that mindset and there are others across a variety of interests.
That really depends. I'm using the definition from fashion where vintage means twenty years or older, and It's been quite a while since my fortieth birthday. I think drawing ones definitions from personal nostalgia is fraught with danger.

I think that bicycles have undergone more than a few aesthetic changes since the days when Merckx and Gimondi raced. People may grumble about brifters and pedals devoid of toe clips and straps, but perhaps an even greater visual change was to brake levers that ran the cables long the bars rather than having two huge loops poking out above the levers. I do tend to think that quill stemmed steel bikes from the mid to late nineties were at a aesthetic pinnacle. This is coupled with the fashion definition is why I pin the term vintage and classic there. It's more a matter of using these terms in revolt against the brutalist aesthetics and technical complexity of the modern race bike.

Bicycling and the bicycle seem to mean different things than they have for the majority of my life, and I'm definitely not on board with that.

Last edited by MooneyBloke; 04-01-23 at 06:44 AM.
MooneyBloke is offline  
Old 04-02-23, 04:56 AM
  #199  
Hondo6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: SW Florida, USA
Posts: 1,138

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 465 Post(s)
Liked 541 Times in 383 Posts
Originally Posted by Ktodd View Post
Anything that came stock with brifters isnt C&V ...I agree with Grant Peterson I hate Index shifting so for me personally anything that came stock with friction shifting is C&V
You do realize that some of Petersen's later Bridgestones came with STIs either stock or as an option, right?

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bridges...3/pages/64.htm

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bridges...4/pages/73.htm

I'm guessing most would consider a 29- or 30-year-old RB-1 to be "C&V".
Hondo6 is online now  
Likes For Hondo6:
Old 04-02-23, 05:27 AM
  #200  
Hondo6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: SW Florida, USA
Posts: 1,138

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 465 Post(s)
Liked 541 Times in 383 Posts
Originally Posted by MooneyBloke View Post
So vintage and classic bikes are pornographic?
Well, they do cause a sudden increase in many people's . . . interest.
Hondo6 is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.