tremolo1965

I’ve owned this 58.5cm 1978 since February 2012, posted about the bike a few times. I decided it was time to do a full tear-down, re-grease, inspect, etc. It came apart beautifully, parts are cleaned up and in drawers.

I’m reassured at the lack of rust inside the tubes (that I can see) - had thought about spraying something inside, but don’t see the need to gunk things up, given she is kept in the house and babied after rides..

Perhaps more interesting from a historical perspective - the frame was aligned and brazed with ‘pinned’ joints, visible on the BB / Chainstay, and BB / Downtube junctions. Here are some photos..

Doing a little clean-up, touching up cable guides, etc., and putting her back together over the next couple weeks.

Spaghetti Legs 

That is a nice one in really good shape!

Cratecruncher

That bike is in very nice condition. I also pondered treating the tubes on a recent teardown of an Italvega and also decided against it for the same reasons. I'm never going to get it wet and it hasn't started to rust in fifty years so why goop it up now? One special case might be if a person lives directly on the coast and the bike gets exposed to a lot of salty humidity. In addition to treating the frame I'd probably store the original fasteners and anything that might rust and use stainless steel while the bike is actively being ridden.

Fredo76

I'd never seen the pin technique. Interesting!

Drillium Dude 

If you look closely you'll see they're actually nails.

Pretty common bitd. Richard Sachs uses the pinned joints method to this day.

DD

repechage

more of a porcupine scheme

SJX426 

Nice older De Rosa!
My '83 Colnago also has pins.

xiaoman1 

It looks to have been barely ridden...very nice!
Best, Ben

tremolo1965

The nails have a square profile. I read elsewhere that Ugo De Rosa didn’t normally utilize this method, but rather a fellow frame builder that frequented his shop may have had a hand in some of the mid-late ‘70s construction. His name was Luigi Gillardi. Not too much out there on the web, but he also built frames for ‘Lupo Mascheroni’ and Gios.

tremolo1965

New grade 25 bearings and Lucas NLGI 2 Marine Multi-Purpose grease in the Headset and BB. New FMB Service Course 25mm tubulars. The bike feels great.

tremolo1965

Hi Repechage, would you be able to share more about this type of construction? I’ve read a few bits on the web, but not much. Before assembling the bike, I looked it over very closely, and in fact there nails at every joint. On the outside of the frame, you can just make out where the
nails were filed down after brazing ((I assume), and again you really have to look, and know where they are, to find them. I can’t image them with my phone, especially due to the mica white paint.

seedsbelize2

Beautiful specimen

tremolo1965

Thank you! I think so, too.

kunsunoke 

Even if the bike wasn't ridden much, it's amazing that the Italian paint held up to that degree. Normally, Itey lacquer is about as brittle as fine porcelain.

It's a shame they couldn't be bothered to learn about Imron.

tremolo1965

Well, it’s been ridden a lot, and these pictures don’t capture the patina which shows when up close and personal, but it’s been looked after. The top tube cable guides needed some love, had some surface rust but thankfully the material is pretty substantial. They cleaned up well and have a clear coat of lacquer / wax on them and we don’t keep our bikes out in the garage.

As for the type of lacquer - it’s thin, but really I like the way Italian bikes from this time frame age. The chrome on the fork blades was / is not the best. I keep a coat of wax on the paint, and on the chrome.

Wildwood 

Really nice ride. Thanks for the detail.

DeRosa owners everywhere appreciate the care given this bike.
We know the ride (on nice tires) is exceptionally crisp.
Please, nothing larger than 25mm.

I would describe mine similarly - ridden well, kept clean, patina up close, tubulars, loved.

repechage

some tack braze, some use tacks or nails.
the frame or sub assemblies are in either case fixed in position prior to brazing.
for most the scheme is to hold things in position and the frame or sub assembly is brazed free of obstruction.
as an example, if the bottom bracket was held in position with cones, when brazing the torchman cannot get flame in or a visual inside the shell.

way back I considered tacks or pins a production line technique, think Raleigh, but later considered it having an advantage as the flux is only activated once.

Richard Sachs has refined his approach to multiple "pins" actually tapered finish nails he tapers on a belt sander. The multiple pins undoubtedly restrain the parts even more so the components remain where they are wanted to be.

tremolo1965

Wildwood,

Thank you for the kind words. I agree on the tire size – I am really enjoying these FMBs – the actual width is 24mm. I wouldn’t want to go wider with this bike. BTW – I’ve seen photos of your blue De Rosa and it is a lovely machine!

Chris

tremolo1965

Repechage,

Thank you for the thoughtful response to my question, and I also apologize for this late response on my part.

The construction of these frames really was (and is) a form of industrial art, and art history.

Speaking of history – I'm interested learning about the amateur racing culture in (especially) Italy during the 20th century. There were so many independent frame builders, and they had to be building for a hungry market, yet I haven’t been able to find very much information about amateur cycling culture, and the way in which the majority of these bicycles were used.

I wonder whether you or perhaps some other folks have any information, or can point me to some source material. I imagine a lot of people would be interested.

Chris

steelbikeguy

As far as Richard Sachs's technique, there was an article in the June 1990 issue of Bicycle Guide titled "The Art of the Framebuilder", which has a photo and some text describing Mr. Sachs method of using a nail to pin tubes and lugs prior to brazing.....





boy, Bicycle Guide really did put out a great magazine!

Steve in Peoria

SJX426 

@tremolo1965 - You may find Dave Moultons frame building articles of interest. This one speaks of pins, fixtures, brazing and more.
Dave Moulton's Blog - Dave Moulton's Bike Blog (squarespace.com)

Scroll down to "Framebuilding FAQs"

His comment about starting with a known misaligned frame and finishing the brazing with alignment is interesting. He knew what would move and how much while he was doing the brazing resulting in a nearly straight frame. I don't believe he used pins.

gugie 

It's fairly common practice for many framebuilders. I've used it myself.


Dropout and seatstay replacement

repechage

A book could be written, but one needs to read and speak Italian.

tremolo1965

Definitely, and yes that would surely help.

repechage

That was a while ago, if you look at his more recent image streams, the quantity of pins has increased.
From my observation, he has refined what he does over time to control things as much as possible.