8-Speed Campagnolo Chorus Hub - dismantling
11-01-18, 12:43 AM
#1
十人十色
Thread Starter
8-Speed Campagnolo Chorus Hub - dismantling
I've just replaced the rim on my wife's rear wheel and with it on the truing stand I noticed a slight, irregular clicking/rustling noise coming from inside the hub, a late 80s/early 90s 8-speed Chorus (the bike is a 1990 De Rosa). I've never worked on such a modern hub before and have no idea how to get it apart to check the bearings. Unfortunately, all the info I can get on the internet is for 9-speed and later hubs.
There's what looks like an Allen screw in the end-nut on the drive side but the non-drive side has the cone flats of the older style freewheel hubs I'm used to. From the info on later Campagnolo hubs it seems a lot of of them are dismantled by unscrewing Allen screws but they all seem to be without cone flats.
Am I right in thinking the Allen screw has to be removed, the nut it locks removed and the axle taken out from the non-drive side? If so, will the cassette body come off, sending pawls and springs flying in all directions? And if so, what are the cone flats for? Lastly, if that is an Allen screw, what size Allen key do I need? It's smaller than anything I have in my tool box.
Any information will be much appreciated...
There's what looks like an Allen screw in the end-nut on the drive side but the non-drive side has the cone flats of the older style freewheel hubs I'm used to. From the info on later Campagnolo hubs it seems a lot of of them are dismantled by unscrewing Allen screws but they all seem to be without cone flats.
Am I right in thinking the Allen screw has to be removed, the nut it locks removed and the axle taken out from the non-drive side? If so, will the cassette body come off, sending pawls and springs flying in all directions? And if so, what are the cone flats for? Lastly, if that is an Allen screw, what size Allen key do I need? It's smaller than anything I have in my tool box.
Any information will be much appreciated...
Last edited by Dawes-man; 11-01-18 at 12:52 AM.
11-01-18, 06:34 AM
#2
Full Member
Hi there
The hub looks in super condition!
Basically, Campag cassette hubs are two bearing systems - there is the system that the hub spins around, and the system that the cassette body sits on.
They are totally independant of each other, so you can remove the cassette body without disturbing the wheel bearing, or remove the wheel axle leaving the cassette body in place on the axle.
Exploded diagrams are available at www.campagnolo.com under "Support", "Documentation", "Spare Parts Catalogues". Filter for any date 1994 to 1998 and search. Check under Record hubs and you should see the parts listing in the form of an exploded view, with relevant part numbers (unfortunately most of those parts are no longer available, though we do have some ...)
So ... the best thing is to determine which bearing system the noise is coming from - to do that, strip the cassette body off.
Yes, there are three pawls and individual springs under them but with either some fine wire, twine, a small zip tie, or even, if you can still find one, the correct Campag tool, reassembling the pawls into the hub is not difficult.
To remove the cassette body it's a 2mm allen key into the small grub screw, undo it, hold the axle on the cone flats on the non gear side and undo the nut formerly held by the grubscrew. Take the nut all the way off (normal RH thread). You should find a spring-type locking washer under it - take that off and just pull the cassette body - it sits on two cartridge bearings which are a slip-fit over the axle and should just pull off. Beware the pawls and springs falling on the floor though - sometimes they stay more or less in place, sometimes not.. Occasionally, the bearings are seized onto the axle and the cassette body won't come off easily but that hub looks as if you'll be OK, were it corroded on the outside I'd be more worried!
That will leave the wheel bearing system in place and you can do a "spin test" for roughness / noise. If that side of the assembly is OK, then the noise is likely from the cassette body - usually that kind of noise is seal-induced, so it may be damage to the cassette body seal, where it butts against the hub body.
To strip the wheel bearing, it's just like a conventional hub but with a cone and locknut on the non gear side only - so once the locknut is undone and the locking washers . spacers are removed, you can screw the cone off the axle and withdraw the axle which has a captive cone halfway down it.The corresponding race for that cone (which is a very light interference fit on the axle) is pressed into the hub shell - it can be removed but I would urge you to get the correct tooling to do that if you think it needs to be replaced (we do still spares of those races but not, alas, of the mid-way-down-the-axle cones ...)
Cones, balls and locknut on the non gear side (NGS) are all replaceable (though there is a workaround that needs to be used for the cone, as the comparatively deep cones that Campag use there are not made any longer - a current "Pista" cone is used with an extra spacer to add depth - and assembly is more or less like a conventional hub. Beware the ball size on the inner race though - some hubs are 1/4", some 7/32" depending on age.NGS balls are conventional 1/4".
Assembly is reverse of strip, up until you come to refit the cassette body. Place the pawls on their springs using a dab of low viscosity grease to hold everything in place. Then, either use the Campag compression tool to hold them in, or use a very skinny zip tie, thread or wire to hold them compressed into their sockets, bring the cassette body down the axle until the pawls are "just" inside the drive ring and then release them, pushing the cassette body fully home. Even with the proper tool it's a bit of an awkward job but perfectly do-able so long as you don't try to rush it.Put the spring washer back on the gear side on the outside of the cassette body, fit the nut, tighten until the cassette body spins cleanly without binding but can't move from side to side, then refit and tighten the grub screw.
The hub looks in super condition!
Basically, Campag cassette hubs are two bearing systems - there is the system that the hub spins around, and the system that the cassette body sits on.
They are totally independant of each other, so you can remove the cassette body without disturbing the wheel bearing, or remove the wheel axle leaving the cassette body in place on the axle.
Exploded diagrams are available at www.campagnolo.com under "Support", "Documentation", "Spare Parts Catalogues". Filter for any date 1994 to 1998 and search. Check under Record hubs and you should see the parts listing in the form of an exploded view, with relevant part numbers (unfortunately most of those parts are no longer available, though we do have some ...)
So ... the best thing is to determine which bearing system the noise is coming from - to do that, strip the cassette body off.
Yes, there are three pawls and individual springs under them but with either some fine wire, twine, a small zip tie, or even, if you can still find one, the correct Campag tool, reassembling the pawls into the hub is not difficult.
To remove the cassette body it's a 2mm allen key into the small grub screw, undo it, hold the axle on the cone flats on the non gear side and undo the nut formerly held by the grubscrew. Take the nut all the way off (normal RH thread). You should find a spring-type locking washer under it - take that off and just pull the cassette body - it sits on two cartridge bearings which are a slip-fit over the axle and should just pull off. Beware the pawls and springs falling on the floor though - sometimes they stay more or less in place, sometimes not.. Occasionally, the bearings are seized onto the axle and the cassette body won't come off easily but that hub looks as if you'll be OK, were it corroded on the outside I'd be more worried!
That will leave the wheel bearing system in place and you can do a "spin test" for roughness / noise. If that side of the assembly is OK, then the noise is likely from the cassette body - usually that kind of noise is seal-induced, so it may be damage to the cassette body seal, where it butts against the hub body.
To strip the wheel bearing, it's just like a conventional hub but with a cone and locknut on the non gear side only - so once the locknut is undone and the locking washers . spacers are removed, you can screw the cone off the axle and withdraw the axle which has a captive cone halfway down it.The corresponding race for that cone (which is a very light interference fit on the axle) is pressed into the hub shell - it can be removed but I would urge you to get the correct tooling to do that if you think it needs to be replaced (we do still spares of those races but not, alas, of the mid-way-down-the-axle cones ...)
Cones, balls and locknut on the non gear side (NGS) are all replaceable (though there is a workaround that needs to be used for the cone, as the comparatively deep cones that Campag use there are not made any longer - a current "Pista" cone is used with an extra spacer to add depth - and assembly is more or less like a conventional hub. Beware the ball size on the inner race though - some hubs are 1/4", some 7/32" depending on age.NGS balls are conventional 1/4".
Assembly is reverse of strip, up until you come to refit the cassette body. Place the pawls on their springs using a dab of low viscosity grease to hold everything in place. Then, either use the Campag compression tool to hold them in, or use a very skinny zip tie, thread or wire to hold them compressed into their sockets, bring the cassette body down the axle until the pawls are "just" inside the drive ring and then release them, pushing the cassette body fully home. Even with the proper tool it's a bit of an awkward job but perfectly do-able so long as you don't try to rush it.Put the spring washer back on the gear side on the outside of the cassette body, fit the nut, tighten until the cassette body spins cleanly without binding but can't move from side to side, then refit and tighten the grub screw.
Last edited by gfk_velo; 11-01-18 at 06:41 AM.
11-01-18, 09:49 AM
#3
十人十色
Thread Starter
Yes, although a 1990 hub, the bike is indoors every night and is used pretty gently.
gfk_velo, Thank you your incredibly useful guide to the hub and servicing it. I'll get down to stripping it as soon as I get hold of a 2 mm Allen key.
The noise is so unlike the grinding noise of unlubricated or pitted steel balls I'm used to I'm inclined to think it might be as you suggest. We'll see.
Thanks again! I'll be back with updates...
gfk_velo, Thank you your incredibly useful guide to the hub and servicing it. I'll get down to stripping it as soon as I get hold of a 2 mm Allen key.
Thanks again! I'll be back with updates...
11-01-18, 04:10 PM
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Exploded diagrams are available at www.campagnolo.com under "Support", "Documentation", "Spare Parts Catalogues". Filter for any date 1994 to 1998 and search. Check under Record hubs and you should see the parts listing in the form of an exploded view, with relevant part numbers (unfortunately most of those parts are no longer available, though we do have some ...)
This is a section through a '90 Chorus hub with the bearing numbers/sizes indicated:
Keep in mind the drive side bearings should actually be 5.55mm, which isn't exactly 7/32" - that would be 5.5563mm. I haven't had any issues with mine though.
I managed to get my cartridge body back on without needing any specific tools or string, etc. Like everything Campagnolo, you just have to believe.
Edit: here's an exploded diagram of a later model Record hub. There are some subtle differences, but essentially it's the same:
I wonder if they don't show the cartridge bearings seperated because they are impossible to extract from the cartridge body? (At least, I couldn't figure out a way to get them out without destroying them...luckily they don't do much work and were fine.)
Last edited by P!N20; 11-01-18 at 05:08 PM.
11-02-18, 12:30 AM
#5
十人十色
Thread Starter
Many thanks for the added, experience-based info and diagrams. With your and gfk_velo's help I feel confident in getting this sucker apart and together again.
I love this place!
11-02-18, 05:01 PM
#6
Full Member
Edit: Found a note I kept while I was servicing the hub.
I dissassembled the freehub by removing the seal cover and pushing out the sealed bearing. There is an inner sealed bearing that I did not remove. There is a spacer between the 2 bearings which I did remove. I cleaned the spacer and bearings which were not very dirty. Looked like the original Campy grease was still on the spacer. I put in some new bearing grease and refitted everything.
Last edited by old_dreams; 11-02-18 at 05:09 PM.
11-04-18, 09:31 AM
#7
十人十色
Thread Starter
Success!!
Thanks to gfk_velo and P!N20's good advice, I managed to strip and rebuild this 1990 Chorus 8-speed hub with no difficulty at all. It was actually pretty simple.
I removed the 2 mm Allen screw and, holding the axle at the other end with a 14 mm cone spanner, the drive-side nut came off with minimum force. Taking the cassette body off was easy, just needing a moderate tug - I wound some thread around the pawls but badly and found that it wasn't necessary after all as they, and the springs, stayed in place. Putting the wheel back on the truing stand I found the clicking/rustling noise was still there, so it came from the axle bearings after all.
Then I realised that the cone, cone lock nut and washers need to be removed for the axle to come out from the drive side. A few of the balls fell out as I did this.
The drive-side balls were very oily whereas the non-drive-side balls were quite dry. I think that's where the clicking/rustling noise was coming from.
The axle bearing races were very good. The balls reusable. I greased it all up with FinishLine grease on the races and balls and Retinax, a lighter grease, on the pawls and springs and then put it all back together. I used a shoelace to keep the pawls and springs in place when I re-inserted the cassette body into the hub.
The only difficulty I had was getting the axle-bearing pre-load right. Before taking it all apart I checked the axle pre-load and found it had zero play. Doing the lock-nut up using a pair of 14mm cone spanners I found the axle would turn a bit, tightening the pre-load. It took a few goes to leave just enough play before tightening to get it right. Spinning the wheel on the truing stand, the wheel takes a while but eventually stops with the label, over the rim joint, at bottom dead centre.
Having regreased the pawls on the cassette body it clicks much more softly and the clicking/rustling sound has completely gone.
Thank you very much indeed!!
Thanks to gfk_velo and P!N20's good advice, I managed to strip and rebuild this 1990 Chorus 8-speed hub with no difficulty at all. It was actually pretty simple.
I removed the 2 mm Allen screw and, holding the axle at the other end with a 14 mm cone spanner, the drive-side nut came off with minimum force. Taking the cassette body off was easy, just needing a moderate tug - I wound some thread around the pawls but badly and found that it wasn't necessary after all as they, and the springs, stayed in place. Putting the wheel back on the truing stand I found the clicking/rustling noise was still there, so it came from the axle bearings after all.
Then I realised that the cone, cone lock nut and washers need to be removed for the axle to come out from the drive side. A few of the balls fell out as I did this.
The drive-side balls were very oily whereas the non-drive-side balls were quite dry. I think that's where the clicking/rustling noise was coming from.
The axle bearing races were very good. The balls reusable. I greased it all up with FinishLine grease on the races and balls and Retinax, a lighter grease, on the pawls and springs and then put it all back together. I used a shoelace to keep the pawls and springs in place when I re-inserted the cassette body into the hub.
The only difficulty I had was getting the axle-bearing pre-load right. Before taking it all apart I checked the axle pre-load and found it had zero play. Doing the lock-nut up using a pair of 14mm cone spanners I found the axle would turn a bit, tightening the pre-load. It took a few goes to leave just enough play before tightening to get it right. Spinning the wheel on the truing stand, the wheel takes a while but eventually stops with the label, over the rim joint, at bottom dead centre.
Having regreased the pawls on the cassette body it clicks much more softly and the clicking/rustling sound has completely gone.
Thank you very much indeed!!
Last edited by Dawes-man; 11-04-18 at 04:09 PM.
11-05-18, 03:09 AM
#8
Full Member
Couple of notes re P!N20's post, for the avoidance of confusion:
That won't get you far. The closest I've found to a '90 Chorus hub exploded diagram is this 8 speed Vento:
Ummm - See Page 58 of the 1995 Spare Parts Catalogue, available at the Campagnolo website, in the location indicated. FH-00CH
There is also a diagram in the 1994 SPC but it does not show the cone FH-RE110 as a separate part so for clarity I'd reference this one-year-later diagram.
Yes, I could have signposted it better but I assumed that the OP would not mind doing a little bit of work, considering that the post I typed took me a good 45 mins ...
Keep in mind the drive side bearings should actually be 5.55mm, which isn't exactly 7/32" - that would be 5.5563mm. I haven't had any issues with mine though.
Campagnolo in their spare parts codes for these balls specify that FH-RE004 is 7/32"
I also, since I work in service and warranty for Campagnolo, have access to the original schematics of the hubs. which likewise specify that a 7/32" ball falls within the tolerances set.
0.0063mm in the diameter of a ballbearing is not a significant variation in this application, (I will grant you that in other applications it might be) so it's no surprise that you have had no issues.
I managed to get my cartridge body back on without needing any specific tools or string, etc. Like everything Campagnolo, you just have to believe.
Granted, it can be done without - but why make life harder than it has to be?
I could have said "getting the pawls and springs in is a bit tricky and you need to be careful not to damage the springs by crimping them, carefully feeding the pawls in against the drive ring, etc, etc, etc" .... but actually just advising to retain them against the cassette body with a substitute for the correct tool was a darn' sight easier and possibly more helpful ...
There should be a tiny bit of play in the hub which disappears once you tighten the quick release skewer.
This is normal in adjusting all QR hubs. Since the OP stated that he's never worked on "such a modern hub" I made the assumption that he had worked on traditonal hubs ... Assembling the cassette body in the way I indicated will mean that there should be no free play in the cassette body, however - that is why there is a spring washer there, to supply the correct pre-load to the cartridge bearings. More recent hubs, using the alloy oversize axle, utilise a specific tightening torque on the retaining nut & collar arrangement but at the time that Campagnolo were producing these hubs, torque wrenches were not the common tool that they are now so they provided, in the construction of the hub, and alternative. The grub screw is there to prevent the cone from working loose as a result of bearing precession.
I wonder if they don't show the cartridge bearings seperated because they are impossible to extract from the cartridge body? (At least, I couldn't figure out a way to get them out without destroying them...luckily they don't do much work and were fine
They can be extracted with a sealed bearing puller for the outer bearing and the correct tool to remove the c-clip for the inner one, followed by the use of a suitable puller. At the time, Campagnolo did not supply the loose cartridge bearings, though, so no spare part code was allocated to them.
To say that they don't do much work is to misunderstand the construction of the hub - they resist considerable loadings from pedalling as the angle of the chain to the cassette means that there is a constant rotational load in the axial plane of the hub which is bourne solely by these bearings. Over-use or indistriminate use of penetrative degreasers and thin (especially aerosol) oils in and around that area of the bike can also lead to the grease being leached out of these bearings, allowing corrosion to occur, so replacement is a job which mechanics do undertake from time to time.
That won't get you far. The closest I've found to a '90 Chorus hub exploded diagram is this 8 speed Vento:
Ummm - See Page 58 of the 1995 Spare Parts Catalogue, available at the Campagnolo website, in the location indicated. FH-00CH
There is also a diagram in the 1994 SPC but it does not show the cone FH-RE110 as a separate part so for clarity I'd reference this one-year-later diagram.
Yes, I could have signposted it better but I assumed that the OP would not mind doing a little bit of work, considering that the post I typed took me a good 45 mins ...
Keep in mind the drive side bearings should actually be 5.55mm, which isn't exactly 7/32" - that would be 5.5563mm. I haven't had any issues with mine though.
Campagnolo in their spare parts codes for these balls specify that FH-RE004 is 7/32"
I also, since I work in service and warranty for Campagnolo, have access to the original schematics of the hubs. which likewise specify that a 7/32" ball falls within the tolerances set.
0.0063mm in the diameter of a ballbearing is not a significant variation in this application, (I will grant you that in other applications it might be) so it's no surprise that you have had no issues.
I managed to get my cartridge body back on without needing any specific tools or string, etc. Like everything Campagnolo, you just have to believe.
Granted, it can be done without - but why make life harder than it has to be?
I could have said "getting the pawls and springs in is a bit tricky and you need to be careful not to damage the springs by crimping them, carefully feeding the pawls in against the drive ring, etc, etc, etc" .... but actually just advising to retain them against the cassette body with a substitute for the correct tool was a darn' sight easier and possibly more helpful ...
There should be a tiny bit of play in the hub which disappears once you tighten the quick release skewer.
This is normal in adjusting all QR hubs. Since the OP stated that he's never worked on "such a modern hub" I made the assumption that he had worked on traditonal hubs ... Assembling the cassette body in the way I indicated will mean that there should be no free play in the cassette body, however - that is why there is a spring washer there, to supply the correct pre-load to the cartridge bearings. More recent hubs, using the alloy oversize axle, utilise a specific tightening torque on the retaining nut & collar arrangement but at the time that Campagnolo were producing these hubs, torque wrenches were not the common tool that they are now so they provided, in the construction of the hub, and alternative. The grub screw is there to prevent the cone from working loose as a result of bearing precession.
I wonder if they don't show the cartridge bearings seperated because they are impossible to extract from the cartridge body? (At least, I couldn't figure out a way to get them out without destroying them...luckily they don't do much work and were fine
They can be extracted with a sealed bearing puller for the outer bearing and the correct tool to remove the c-clip for the inner one, followed by the use of a suitable puller. At the time, Campagnolo did not supply the loose cartridge bearings, though, so no spare part code was allocated to them.
To say that they don't do much work is to misunderstand the construction of the hub - they resist considerable loadings from pedalling as the angle of the chain to the cassette means that there is a constant rotational load in the axial plane of the hub which is bourne solely by these bearings. Over-use or indistriminate use of penetrative degreasers and thin (especially aerosol) oils in and around that area of the bike can also lead to the grease being leached out of these bearings, allowing corrosion to occur, so replacement is a job which mechanics do undertake from time to time.
Last edited by gfk_velo; 11-05-18 at 03:20 AM.
11-05-18, 07:54 AM
#9
十人十色
Thread Starter
Ummm - See Page 58 of the 1995 Spare Parts Catalogue, available at the Campagnolo website, in the location indicated. FH-00CH
There is also a diagram in the 1994 SPC but it does not show the cone FH-RE110 as a separate part so for clarity I'd reference this one-year-later diagram.
Yes, I could have signposted it better but I assumed that the OP would not mind doing a little bit of work, considering that the post I typed took me a good 45 mins ...
There is also a diagram in the 1994 SPC but it does not show the cone FH-RE110 as a separate part so for clarity I'd reference this one-year-later diagram.
Yes, I could have signposted it better but I assumed that the OP would not mind doing a little bit of work, considering that the post I typed took me a good 45 mins ...
https://www.campagnolo.com/media/fil...994_part_C.pdf The Chorus hub is on page 44. Apart from an extra flat washer under the drive-side nut it's the same as my wife's.
I don't know what I did wrong but you are completely right: I don't, and certainly shouldn't, mind in the slightest doing a bit of work. And I hope I haven't given the impression that I did. I am very, very grateful to you for the help you spent your time giving me. Your written explanation enabled me to get the job done. I also looked at the Vento hub diagram, which really just added a little reassurance.
11-05-18, 02:10 PM
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Ummm - See Page 58 of the 1995 Spare Parts Catalogue, available at the Campagnolo website, in the location indicated. FH-00CH
There is also a diagram in the 1994 SPC but it does not show the cone FH-RE110 as a separate part so for clarity I'd reference this one-year-later diagram.
Yes, I could have signposted it better but I assumed that the OP would not mind doing a little bit of work, considering that the post I typed took me a good 45 mins ...
Last edited by P!N20; 11-05-18 at 02:22 PM.
09-22-20, 08:41 PM
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Couple of notes re P!N20's post, for the avoidance of confusion:
To say that they don't do much work is to misunderstand the construction of the hub - they resist considerable loadings from pedalling as the angle of the chain to the cassette means that there is a constant rotational load in the axial plane of the hub which is bourne solely by these bearings. Over-use or indistriminate use of penetrative degreasers and thin (especially aerosol) oils in and around that area of the bike can also lead to the grease being leached out of these bearings, allowing corrosion to occur, so replacement is a job which mechanics do undertake from time to time.
To say that they don't do much work is to misunderstand the construction of the hub - they resist considerable loadings from pedalling as the angle of the chain to the cassette means that there is a constant rotational load in the axial plane of the hub which is bourne solely by these bearings. Over-use or indistriminate use of penetrative degreasers and thin (especially aerosol) oils in and around that area of the bike can also lead to the grease being leached out of these bearings, allowing corrosion to occur, so replacement is a job which mechanics do undertake from time to time.
01-19-21, 12:59 PM
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Bringing this useful thread back to life since I've just disassembled an 8 speed Chorus hub and found all to be OK except a single press-fit cone, which has corrosion on one small spot in the bearing track.
Thanks for all the helpful info about obscure Campy P!N20.
I believe I need part FH-RE110, a press-fit bearing cone which is not longer offered as a spare part from Campagnolo.
Here is my cone:
I've seen Mad Honk recondition bearing surfaces, so I wonder if it's possible to improve this cone. I'm guessing no.
To strip the wheel bearing, it's just like a conventional hub but with a cone and locknut on the non gear side only - so once the locknut is undone and the locking washers . spacers are removed, you can screw the cone off the axle and withdraw the axle which has a captive cone halfway down it.The corresponding race for that cone (which is a very light interference fit on the axle) is pressed into the hub shell - it can be removed but I would urge you to get the correct tooling to do that if you think it needs to be replaced (we do still spares of those races but not, alas, of the mid-way-down-the-axle cones ...)
[emphasis added]
Cones, balls and locknut on the non gear side (NGS) are all replaceable (though there is a workaround that needs to be used for the cone, as the comparatively deep cones that Campag use there are not made any longer - a current "Pista" cone is used with an extra spacer to add depth - and assembly is more or less like a conventional hub. Beware the ball size on the inner race though - some hubs are 1/4", some 7/32" depending on age.NGS balls are conventional 1/4".
[emphasis added]
Cones, balls and locknut on the non gear side (NGS) are all replaceable (though there is a workaround that needs to be used for the cone, as the comparatively deep cones that Campag use there are not made any longer - a current "Pista" cone is used with an extra spacer to add depth - and assembly is more or less like a conventional hub. Beware the ball size on the inner race though - some hubs are 1/4", some 7/32" depending on age.NGS balls are conventional 1/4".
I believe I need part FH-RE110, a press-fit bearing cone which is not longer offered as a spare part from Campagnolo.
Here is my cone:
I've seen Mad Honk recondition bearing surfaces, so I wonder if it's possible to improve this cone. I'm guessing no.
Likes For billytwosheds:
01-19-21, 02:12 PM
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Interesting that the Chorus hub in the ‘93 spare parts catalog doesn’t have a seperate part number for the cone: Campagnolo Spare Parts Catalogue - 1993 Product Range page 70
Or ‘94: https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/...e_page_44.html
Good luck getting that mother far car off.
Or ‘94: https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/...e_page_44.html
Good luck getting that mother far car off.
Last edited by P!N20; 01-19-21 at 02:19 PM.
01-19-21, 02:31 PM
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Interesting that the Chorus hub in the ‘93 spare parts catalog doesn’t have a seperate part number for the cone: Campagnolo Spare Parts Catalogue - 1993 Product Range page 70
Or ‘94: Campagnolo Spare Parts Catalogue - 1994 Product Range page 44
Good luck getting that mother far car off.
Or ‘94: Campagnolo Spare Parts Catalogue - 1994 Product Range page 44
Good luck getting that mother far car off.
I suppose I could seek out a replacement axle but it may or may not have the bit I'm looking for.
01-19-21, 11:26 PM
#16
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Hi there
The hub looks in super condition!
Basically, Campag cassette hubs are two bearing systems - there is the system that the hub spins around, and the system that the cassette body sits on.
They are totally independant of each other, so you can remove the cassette body without disturbing the wheel bearing, or remove the wheel axle leaving the cassette body in place on the axle.
Exploded diagrams are available at www.campagnolo.com under "Support", "Documentation", "Spare Parts Catalogues". Filter for any date 1994 to 1998 and search. Check under Record hubs and you should see the parts listing in the form of an exploded view, with relevant part numbers (unfortunately most of those parts are no longer available, though we do have some ...)
So ... the best thing is to determine which bearing system the noise is coming from - to do that, strip the cassette body off.
Yes, there are three pawls and individual springs under them but with either some fine wire, twine, a small zip tie, or even, if you can still find one, the correct Campag tool, reassembling the pawls into the hub is not difficult.
To remove the cassette body it's a 2mm allen key into the small grub screw, undo it, hold the axle on the cone flats on the non gear side and undo the nut formerly held by the grubscrew. Take the nut all the way off (normal RH thread). You should find a spring-type locking washer under it - take that off and just pull the cassette body - it sits on two cartridge bearings which are a slip-fit over the axle and should just pull off. Beware the pawls and springs falling on the floor though - sometimes they stay more or less in place, sometimes not.. Occasionally, the bearings are seized onto the axle and the cassette body won't come off easily but that hub looks as if you'll be OK, were it corroded on the outside I'd be more worried!
That will leave the wheel bearing system in place and you can do a "spin test" for roughness / noise. If that side of the assembly is OK, then the noise is likely from the cassette body - usually that kind of noise is seal-induced, so it may be damage to the cassette body seal, where it butts against the hub body.
To strip the wheel bearing, it's just like a conventional hub but with a cone and locknut on the non gear side only - so once the locknut is undone and the locking washers . spacers are removed, you can screw the cone off the axle and withdraw the axle which has a captive cone halfway down it.The corresponding race for that cone (which is a very light interference fit on the axle) is pressed into the hub shell - it can be removed but I would urge you to get the correct tooling to do that if you think it needs to be replaced (we do still spares of those races but not, alas, of the mid-way-down-the-axle cones ...)
Cones, balls and locknut on the non gear side (NGS) are all replaceable (though there is a workaround that needs to be used for the cone, as the comparatively deep cones that Campag use there are not made any longer - a current "Pista" cone is used with an extra spacer to add depth - and assembly is more or less like a conventional hub. Beware the ball size on the inner race though - some hubs are 1/4", some 7/32" depending on age.NGS balls are conventional 1/4".
Assembly is reverse of strip, up until you come to refit the cassette body. Place the pawls on their springs using a dab of low viscosity grease to hold everything in place. Then, either use the Campag compression tool to hold them in, or use a very skinny zip tie, thread or wire to hold them compressed into their sockets, bring the cassette body down the axle until the pawls are "just" inside the drive ring and then release them, pushing the cassette body fully home. Even with the proper tool it's a bit of an awkward job but perfectly do-able so long as you don't try to rush it.Put the spring washer back on the gear side on the outside of the cassette body, fit the nut, tighten until the cassette body spins cleanly without binding but can't move from side to side, then refit and tighten the grub screw.
The hub looks in super condition!
Basically, Campag cassette hubs are two bearing systems - there is the system that the hub spins around, and the system that the cassette body sits on.
They are totally independant of each other, so you can remove the cassette body without disturbing the wheel bearing, or remove the wheel axle leaving the cassette body in place on the axle.
Exploded diagrams are available at www.campagnolo.com under "Support", "Documentation", "Spare Parts Catalogues". Filter for any date 1994 to 1998 and search. Check under Record hubs and you should see the parts listing in the form of an exploded view, with relevant part numbers (unfortunately most of those parts are no longer available, though we do have some ...)
So ... the best thing is to determine which bearing system the noise is coming from - to do that, strip the cassette body off.
Yes, there are three pawls and individual springs under them but with either some fine wire, twine, a small zip tie, or even, if you can still find one, the correct Campag tool, reassembling the pawls into the hub is not difficult.
To remove the cassette body it's a 2mm allen key into the small grub screw, undo it, hold the axle on the cone flats on the non gear side and undo the nut formerly held by the grubscrew. Take the nut all the way off (normal RH thread). You should find a spring-type locking washer under it - take that off and just pull the cassette body - it sits on two cartridge bearings which are a slip-fit over the axle and should just pull off. Beware the pawls and springs falling on the floor though - sometimes they stay more or less in place, sometimes not.. Occasionally, the bearings are seized onto the axle and the cassette body won't come off easily but that hub looks as if you'll be OK, were it corroded on the outside I'd be more worried!
That will leave the wheel bearing system in place and you can do a "spin test" for roughness / noise. If that side of the assembly is OK, then the noise is likely from the cassette body - usually that kind of noise is seal-induced, so it may be damage to the cassette body seal, where it butts against the hub body.
To strip the wheel bearing, it's just like a conventional hub but with a cone and locknut on the non gear side only - so once the locknut is undone and the locking washers . spacers are removed, you can screw the cone off the axle and withdraw the axle which has a captive cone halfway down it.The corresponding race for that cone (which is a very light interference fit on the axle) is pressed into the hub shell - it can be removed but I would urge you to get the correct tooling to do that if you think it needs to be replaced (we do still spares of those races but not, alas, of the mid-way-down-the-axle cones ...)
Cones, balls and locknut on the non gear side (NGS) are all replaceable (though there is a workaround that needs to be used for the cone, as the comparatively deep cones that Campag use there are not made any longer - a current "Pista" cone is used with an extra spacer to add depth - and assembly is more or less like a conventional hub. Beware the ball size on the inner race though - some hubs are 1/4", some 7/32" depending on age.NGS balls are conventional 1/4".
Assembly is reverse of strip, up until you come to refit the cassette body. Place the pawls on their springs using a dab of low viscosity grease to hold everything in place. Then, either use the Campag compression tool to hold them in, or use a very skinny zip tie, thread or wire to hold them compressed into their sockets, bring the cassette body down the axle until the pawls are "just" inside the drive ring and then release them, pushing the cassette body fully home. Even with the proper tool it's a bit of an awkward job but perfectly do-able so long as you don't try to rush it.Put the spring washer back on the gear side on the outside of the cassette body, fit the nut, tighten until the cassette body spins cleanly without binding but can't move from side to side, then refit and tighten the grub screw.
I had to replace one of the cones but luckily found a generic cone somewhere that seemed to be close enough and after 1-2,000 miles, is smooth, hasn't presented any noise or other issues. Your comment on the spacer rings a bell, but I can't really remember if that's what it took.
Last edited by Camilo; 01-19-21 at 11:30 PM.
01-20-21, 07:29 AM
#17
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I have several of these 8 speeds hubs, on the early 8 speed hubs (Record, Chorus and Athena) that cone is part of the axle and not replaceable. The later hubs used a separate cone, which is replaceable..
01-20-21, 01:15 PM
#18
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I don't suppose you would have a separate cone or older axle you could part with?
01-21-21, 03:12 PM
#20
Full Member
Bringing this useful thread back to life since I've just disassembled an 8 speed Chorus hub and found all to be OK except a single press-fit cone, which has corrosion on one small spot in the bearing track.
Thanks for all the helpful info about obscure Campy P!N20.
I believe I need part FH-RE110, a press-fit bearing cone which is not longer offered as a spare part from Campagnolo.
Here is my cone:
I've seen Mad Honk recondition bearing surfaces, so I wonder if it's possible to improve this cone. I'm guessing no.
Thanks for all the helpful info about obscure Campy P!N20.
I believe I need part FH-RE110, a press-fit bearing cone which is not longer offered as a spare part from Campagnolo.
Here is my cone:
I've seen Mad Honk recondition bearing surfaces, so I wonder if it's possible to improve this cone. I'm guessing no.
I think it might be time to look for a donor hub ... although a trade site I know and very occasionally use in the US, EuroAsia Imports appears to have them in stock - if I can just get my login to work, I will check if the *really* have them ...
01-21-21, 07:25 PM
#21
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Unfortunately I think that is toast ... you are all the way through the hardening, I think. If you machine the curve down (tricky in itself) you'd potentially have to adjust BB size as it looks as if you'll have to go "in" quite a way and the bearing surface will be very soft.
I think it might be time to look for a donor hub ... although a trade site I know and very occasionally use in the US, EuroAsia Imports appears to have them in stock - if I can just get my login to work, I will check if the *really* have them ...
I think it might be time to look for a donor hub ... although a trade site I know and very occasionally use in the US, EuroAsia Imports appears to have them in stock - if I can just get my login to work, I will check if the *really* have them ...
EuroAsia Imports does show the part here, but without a price. Curious if you're able to see with your login:
https://www.euroasiaimports.com/prod...one-p16859.htm
I contacted Yellow Jersey and they have one for the chilly price of $90. That's twice what I paid for the hub, so no-go there.
01-30-21, 11:25 AM
#22
Newbie
I’ve bought 2 chorus hubs now on the bay, and had to return both. Neither one fit my 8 speed chorus hub. Does anyone know why the diagram shows some with the part attached, and then separate? My drive side race is trashed as well. I’ve taken mine to a local show as well, not much luck.
01-30-21, 04:25 PM
#23
Senior Member
There’s a NOS SRP Ti axle on flea/bay for $65 + shipp...but w/o the cone...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-SRP-hol....m46890.l49292
pm me if interested?
Last edited by 1 Lugnut; 01-30-21 at 04:38 PM.
02-01-21, 04:08 AM
#25
Full Member
Thanks, yeah I figured as much.
EuroAsia Imports does show the part here, but without a price. Curious if you're able to see with your login:
https://www.euroasiaimports.com/prod...one-p16859.htm
I contacted Yellow Jersey and they have one for the chilly price of $90. That's twice what I paid for the hub, so no-go there.
EuroAsia Imports does show the part here, but without a price. Curious if you're able to see with your login:
https://www.euroasiaimports.com/prod...one-p16859.htm
I contacted Yellow Jersey and they have one for the chilly price of $90. That's twice what I paid for the hub, so no-go there.
Euro-Asian are showing them in stock.
I can order but at retail they are going to be IRO £40.00 apiece by the time we've paid shipping and import taxes.
It's been a long time since I've placed an order from the UK to EAI so I don't, to be honest, know what the "real" lead time will be - I suspect a couple of weeks ...
Please let me know - you are best to email me if a PM doesn't work for you:
velotechcycling "at" aim "dot" com
