twentyflights

Cutting to the chase here: I have a mish-mashed but good 1988 Schwinn Prelude that does alright at what I need (mostly, a hilly 4 mile commute)...but should I just finish the upgrades and be happy with it, or is the latest stuff (I'm thinking something like a Specialized Diverge, since gravel seems really intriguing) really going to be worth it?

For some more detail...

I got the Prelude off eBay when I was in college about 10 years ago to replace a bike that was just stolen. After getting my flashy bike stolen, my top priority was getting something ugly and rusty but quick for jaunts around campus. This rust bucket did the trick, and felt pretty nice while it was at it. At that time, pretty much all components were stock. ("Stock" parts, for your reference here)


In the years since, I made a couple admittedly mish-mashed upgrades (basically buying things when they were cheap on eBay) that make it pretty pleasant to ride now, which to me is basically a hilly 4 mile commute:

• Built a wheelset from vintage Dura-Ace 7400 hubs (laced to Mavic Open CDs in front and Matrix ISO C-II "semi-deep" rims)
• Dura-Ace 12-23T 7 speed freewheel
• Ultegra BR-6500 dual pivot brakes
• Shimano 105 rear derailleur RD-1051 (circa 1989)
• Shimano 105 brake levers BL-1051 (circa 1989)
• New bottom bracket
• Removed front derailleur, left 42T chainring
• SPD M520 pedals (not shown in picture below)
• Vittoria Rubino Pro IV (changed from Gatorskins in picture below)

I bathroom-scale weighed this setup (without rear rack) the other day and it checks it around 23.5 lbs. Some of the last things I'd thought about upgrading were better-fitting cranks of the vintage Shimano 600/Ultegra sort, maybe the rear derailleur for vintage Ultegra, and changing out the rear cluster to get 28T.




This setup mostly works well, but some of the bumpy pavement on fast descents into work make me feel like my hands could bounce off the levers, I can feel my hands getting tired trying to brake on fast turns, and on the climbs I can definitely still feel it...that and some not-too-sporty-looking dude on his hybrid bike had me pretty well beat on one of the hills to work, which got me thinking...have bikes really come that far in the last three decades?

Some of the modern alternatives I've been looking into are on the "road-with-some-gravel" types for comfort on my commute, but still fast enough and with options for future bikepacking...Specialized Diverge, Canyon Grail, Giant Revolt Advanced. Depending on the setup, some of these bikes aren't THAT much lighter than my current rig (around 21-22 lbs), which definitely makes me wonder if I'm really missing anything for a $2000+ investment. However, I know braking has gotten much better (esp. disk), frames are stiffer (I guess?), lots more gears, etc.

So am I actually missing out on something? And will I finally beat that guy on the ride into work?!

puma1552

My hybrid weighs about what your bike weighs, and the wheels are probably a $50 set of boat anchors with 32 spokes.

Time for you to get a new bike, good sir. Can't imagine putting another dime into a rusty frame bike. That bike has served its purpose, now take it out back and shoot it.

chainwhip

"...that and some not-too-sporty-looking dude on his hybrid bike had me pretty well beat on one of the hills to work, which got me thinking...have bikes really come that far in the last three decades?"

hth.

PS - rent a bike with integrated/STI shifters for a week.
A test-drive around the block wouldnt tell you much.

It's an eye-opener after nothing but downtube shifting.

Carbon vs. Alu vs. Steel frame material brawl?
A high quality steel frame, good groupset, and decent wheels would put a smile on your face.

My recent build:
older Shogun steel frame,
newer Shimano R3000 Sora group,
newer Campagnolo Zonda wheelset.





.

zacster

For a 4 mile commute just about anything will do. Are you looking for a bike to do more? In that case don't spend any more money on what you have. The things you are suggesting for upgrade are marginal at best and certainly won't make you any faster.

Go to a bike shop and test ride a few new bikes and see what you think. Try riding an all-out carbon fiber road bike vs. a hybrid vs. a cross bike vs. an MTB. A carbon road bike will probably feel like a rocket to you, it did to me the first time I rode one (a Giant TCR back in 2005). I bought a carbon bike back then and still ride the replacement for it when I crashed it less than a year in. I used an old Trek 7000 MTB as a commuter, and that commute was 10 miles each way, but I have since retired.

twentyflights

Are we gonna have rabbits, George?

That's a sexy build. It's a goofy thing to notice, but those brake calipers are perfect in white.

And I agree, I think integrated shifters/brakes might be a revelation given that I'm a little bit obsessive about nailing my cadence.

Yeah my current setup does fine, and I don't mind getting a good workout in, but I don't currently ride to work every day and I think the extra bit of work on some of the climbs keeps me from wanting to do it more.

I do have ambitions to ride more than I currently do, and the bit that keeps me from wanting to do more group rides with the local shop etc. is the fear I'll get dropped on the hills. I won't be devastated if I couldn't ever do those rides, but I wouldn't want to rule it out completely.

mstateglfr 

It's a 4mi commute- there is just no need to spend a lot and buy a new bike for a 4mi commute.
Do it if you want, but dont think it's a need.

The prelude frame was low-midlevel. Decent columbus main tubes, generic rear triangle, and a hiten steel fork.

I would just buy another frame off craigslist/ebay/the c&v forum here and swap components over to the new frame. A new frame plus the stuff you want to do added to what you already have would be a few hundred dollars complete.

79pmooney

Do you ride with cycling shoes and cleats? If not, I promise you that going to them and pulling your toestraps tight will be a revelation on hills. (If you are nervous about pulling straps tight - yes, you do have to remember to reach down and loosen them before you stop or you will fall over - you can swap out the pedals for clipless and go that route.) 50 years ago I got cycling shoes, nailed on the cleats and had my eyes opened and never looked back. Nowadays, if you want to keep the toeclips, get LOOK compatible 3-bolt cycling shoes and Exustar track cleats. The old way but far easier and more convenient. Allen bolts, no more nails!

Any way you do it, if you are not yet riding cleats and want to make the next big jump, try them. Potentially a bigger difference than anything a new frame will buy you. A lot cheaper too.

I have refrained from buying carbon anything. Yes, the new bikes are now pulling away on the hills, but that has far more to do with my 66 years of existence than the frame material. If I raced, yes I would need that light stuff. But I don't race and I love having a bike that can take the rough and tumble of life (and falling over and crashes and tools being dropped on it) without worry. (I've been in a place for a while that I can afford and justify the bikes I want. I have 5. 3 steel and 2 titanium - simply because I love the ride. My Peter Mooney of my username is approximately the weight and stiffness of your frame, has done almost everything but race, has seen several carbon fiber bike ending crashes (does have a second fork) has 50,000 miles, rides like new and still is a joy.

Keep that Schwinn. Even if you get a new, hot bike, keep it. I have an '83 Trek set up as an all year (minus snow) city fix gear and a '73 Raleigh set up as the same with gears. Both get ridden most weeks (and I am retired, no more commuting).

Ben

chainwhip

+1
Agree with Ben. Overlooked in my post further up.

I'm partial to my Speedplays, but there are several " clipless" pedal/cleat systems to choose from...or old school toe clips with straps.

I went through a learning curve with regard to hills. Your 4 mile commute and its hills might seem tough, but getting out for longer rides and working on your climbing skills could be another eye-opener.

I remember one hill( and there are still several) that I used to dread climbing, and the approach would often include some mental rummaging about how well I'd do that particular day.

What works/worked for me:
1) decide mentally you can do it, ( vow "no getting off to walk")
2) strategize gear changes...carry your momentum into the start of the hill...
3) spin as lightly as the hill allows = downshift earlier than you think you'll need...
4) stand and blast up short steep sections, remembering you may want a taller gear to do so...
5) sit and spin the long slow gradual extended bits

The breakthrough experience is a joy, and more challenging climbs are calling.
Clipped in is a major plus for hillclimbs.

bpcyclist

I think you have potentially two distinct needs, based on what you've written. One is the commute, which, as pointed out, your current bike is more than adequate for. The other is if you are going to add some club or group rides. That's a totally different deal. Most of those guys and gals on those rides are going to be on lightweight aluminum and carbon fiber road bikes and you may get dropped. If you are seriously contemplating adding these rides to you repertoire, then I would look at a new, lightweight bike of some sort. Probably a road bike. You can get one for less than $2000 if you shop carefully.

bikemig 

Sounds like its time for 2 bikes: one for the commute, the other for the kind of fast riding you want to do. It's hard to beat a vintage MTB for a commuter; they're relatively cheap, they have lots of room for decent volume tires, and eyelets for a rack and fenders.

Jon T

The first thing to evaluate/work on is probably the motor itself. All the new bikes and upgrades in the world won't help if the motor isn't tuned and hitting on all the cylinders. I'm just sayin'........
Jon

twentyflights

Many thanks all for the responses so far.


I upgraded to SPD pedals about 2 months ago (after the picture in my post) and I totally agree it's a revelation...feeling confident enough to really "dig" on climbs and stoplights has made me feel more confident.


As for the idea of two bikes...I probably won't get rid of this bike, but I'm not so sure I would keep using it for commuting if I had something better. There's enough of a climb to make it a solid workout and the bouncy pavement on the descents tricky. You would think this bike would have better clearance, but I'm just a couple millimeters away from the rear stays with 25 mm tires, and I didn't want to buy 28 mm and find they wouldn't work, so I'm stuck at 25 mm max.

twentyflights

I hear ya. And I keep up on my fitness and plan to keep working at it more (and target it more toward cycling vs. running where I still do a bit more work now...but my RHR is at 53 bpm right now and has been as low as 48 bpm in the past). I was just thinking it wouldn't hurt to get up to speed on 30 years of technology, but the value of that upgrade is what I'm asking in this thread.

JohnDThompson 

If the primary purpose is a 4 mile commute, I wouldn't replace it with a new bike. New bikes are a theft magnet, unless you have an indoor space to keep it while at work. If you want a new bike for recreational riding, that's understandable, but I'd keep this one, with its "urban camouflage," as your commuter.

bruce19

Totally my perspective but.....I'd go newer. I'd go Aluminum w/CF fork. And, I go with Speedplay Frogs. Just my preferences based on cycling since the mid-80's. I'd also probably go with 105 and 11 sp. if it is available. I have no problems with 10 sp. FWIW.

bruce19

I should have added that disc brakes will solve tire width issues. I bought my Colnago Word Cup CX on sale for $1500 a couple years ago. It will do anything with it's CX gearing. If I had some money I'd put some Mavic USTs or something like that on it. This bike weighs roughly 22 lbs. Here's a pic.

merlinextraligh

A new bike with integrated shifting, more gears with closer spacing, 5 pounds lighter, and a stiffer frame,but at the same time more compliant ride, will be nicer and
more fun to ride.

unfortunately, it will have a very marginal impact on how fast you are.

in good shape, you can hang on most any group ride on the Prelude. In bad shape you’ll be dropped on a $10,000 carbon fiber dream machine.

merlinextraligh

To put numbers to the above on a 6% grade a 5 pound lighter bike would result in a 0.2 mph difference at 300 watts.

looking at it inversely, on the heavier bike you’ll need to put out 6 more watts (306 versus 300) to keep up on the heavier bike.

masi61

It sounds like you already have the ability to locate used parts at good prices when you need to. This is a good thing. You can keep commuting on your Schwinn as-is for as long as you need to. But you mentioned hill climbing. I think you said you have a Dura Ace 12-23 freewheel on there? Is that a 6 or 7 speed (or is the 7400 hub a cassette hub?)?

Regardless of the answer to the above question, I suspect the Prelude has 126mm rear spacing. A lot of people would say to cold set the rear triangle and upgrade the rear wheel to an 8/9/10 speed or an 11-speed. If you are satisfied with your current wheels and freewheel my suggestion on how to get some climbing gears would be to install a triple crank. This way you keep the tight spacing of your Dura Ace freewheel but gain a lower range when you shift your triple into the granny ring.

Given the vintage of the associated parts, I would say an Ultegra 6503 (Octalink bottom bracket) triple crank or even an Ultegra 6603 (outboard bottom bracket bearings for Hollowtech 24mm cranks) triple crank would serve you quite well.

You might need a long cage rear derailleur (“GS” cage) and perhaps a triple friendly front derailleur. But the resultant 6x3 (or 7x3 whichever the case may be) would be pretty cool with your existing down tube shift levers.

(Correction: I see where you already have a 7 speed freewheel. If it were me I would put the triple 6503 crank on there with the matching Octalink 118.5mm bottom bracket and then switch to a GS cage Shimano rear derailleur such as the 6500 GS - 9 speed triple series or the 6600 GS - 10 speed triple series).

Ogsarg

From your post it sounds like you want to be able to handle the bad pavement better and since your maxed out at a 25 tire, I don't see that there is much you can do about that with your current bike other than maybe a seatpost with shock in it, which will add even more weight and probably not help much.

If that is indeed one of your priorities, I'd get something new or at least newer that can take a bigger tire like the models you mentioned. You'll have a much improved ride quality and better brakes as well.

As others have said, your current bike is fine for a 4 mile commute but if it's not going to screw up your budget go for it. The bike on it's own won't help you beat the guy on the hybrid but if it motivates you to ride more often and do some other riding, you'll do a whole lot better.

Kimmo 

I'd say as a minimum, get brifters. The concept of the road bike wasn't finished until 1992.

The advice to get a triple would be good if middle rings weren't unobtanium... although maybe there's more NOS lying around the US than Oz.

But yeah, there's been a fair bit of improvement in the last thirty years. A compact frame with a carbon seatpost is lighter and stiffer, yet more compliant. Threadless stems and 9/8 steerers are way stiffer. Butt external bearing cranks have less heel clearance.

I'd advise getting a used 10s bike; with a bit of patience you can find some great deals. Stay away from second-generation 10s Shimano shifters though (the first ones with aero shift cables) - signal to noise in the rear shift cable is woeful.

zjrog

I'm on the side of upgrade, and snag another bike.

This is my 1986 KHS Fiero. I bought the stripped frame in 1989. You could call it my first adult bike. I built it with junk parts, other people's cast offs. And rode the hell out of it. Upgrading what I could as I could. But it was a mish mash of stuff. 5 years ago I pulled it from my shed and began updating. Shimano 105 5600 brifters and derailleurs. FSA Vero compact crank, SRAM Apex calipers. I've changed wheels 3 times, for a number of reasons. This is a ton of fun to ride again. 25 and 30 mile rides are comfortable. It helped me with weight loss this past year, both on my indoor trainer and outdoors. I'm keeping this bike forever. It's my Old Friend... And seriously considering another round of upgrades. Specifically, strip it down and powder coat it, and replace the fork to fit 700x32, maybe 35s, current fork barely fits a 700x28... Replacing the fork, I may run a front disc, undecided.


An opportunity presented itself to get this 2006 Cannondale CAAD8 R1000 frame. For $50, no brainer. Included the fork. Gifts from friends and patience looking for parts, netted me SRAM Force 10 speed brifters, Red crankset, Rival derraileurs. Generic calipers. And a set of wheels I ran for a bit, but stole the wheels off my KHS, Shimano 105 5600 hubset... This bike is my reward for over 100 pounds weight loss. It is aluminum and is very very stiff. But very fast compared to my KHS.

I purposely configured my Reward bike different from my KHS. I do have a 29er, a 1990 Trek 7000 mtb, and a 98 Cannondale CAD2 R200.

twentyflights

Man there are lots of great options here. The triple crank idea is intriguing, but the limited availability of parts has me thinking twice about. I do think a bit more gear range would make things more manageable, but I think most bikes of this era max out at a 28T rear cog. Throwing some brifters on also sounds pretty worthwhile. But as some have pointed out I think the biggest limitation is that my frame won't support additional tire clearance and probably won't get any lighter than 23ish lbs.

At the moment I'm leaning heavily towards a whole new setup. A bit of soul searching has me thinking I wouldn't be doing as much single track and rock gardening as a gravel bike would warrant, but an alloy CX bike is seeming intriguing. If Canyon stock wasn't so flaky in the US, the Inflite might almost be in my garage already haha

canklecat

Nothing wrong with upgrading a good older steel frame. Do something to prevent that rust from worsening, though. Lots of tips and tricks on the C&V and mechanics forums.

That RD will handle up to 28T, no problem. I've done that with 7-speed freewheels using short cage Suntour and Shimano rear derailleurs. The SunRace 7-speed chromed 13-25 (MFR30) and 13-28 (MFM30) freewheels are excellent values. They shift more crisply and run more smoothly than my stock Suntour and Shimano freewheels. SunRace 7-speed freewheels have been compatible with both my Suntour and Shimano groups (derailleurs and shifters). Much better shifting than my original Suntour freewheels.

To ease the chore of climbing on longer rides, especially in hot weather, I swapped my older steel bike from 52/42 chainrings to 50/39 and 50/38 (Vuelta, excellent value). I'm picky about gear step feel so I use the 50/39 combo with the 13-25 SunRace freewheel, and 50/38 with 13-28. The steps just suit me better. And the 38 chainring and 28 rear cog have helped on a few long climbs into headwinds. We don't have any long steep climbs but on days with headwinds those 2% grades can feel a lot steeper.

Your bike can probably handle 700x25 tires. It'll be a tight squeeze between the chainstays, so it's essential that the wheel is centered. If the wheel is even slightly off center the tire may rub, so it may be necessary to re-dish the wheel to ensure it's perfectly centered. I've had to do that with a couple of my older bikes.

I have downtube shifters on my steel bike but recently switched the 1993 carbon fiber bike from downtube to brifters. The MicroShift 7-speed brifters are a good value. No problems with mine, and they work fine with 7-speed Shimano or SunRace freewheel or cassette, since I switch between two wheelsets.

02Giant 

You may want to look into adding another link or two to your chain.