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Carbon fiber bike life span

Old 01-07-23, 06:53 PM
  #176  
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By the way, the Porsche’s of which GM modeled the Corvair off had rear swing axle suspensions. A Porsche 356 Speedster in great condition has a rear swing axle and will set you back a quarter million dollars.

So build a rear engined flat six with a swing axle, it’s a German sports car, where most of the people who buy it know how to drive, and it’s a sought after icon. Have GM build it and give it to people who really do not know how to drive, and it’s “unsafe at any speed”
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Old 01-07-23, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
https://www.corvair.org/index.php/ho...e-at-any-speed

or people, could learn to drive. Oversteer is a good thing if you know what you’re doing.

”Oversteer” isn’t’t somethng bad, like the car steersmore than you want. If just means at the limit, the rear tends to come out, more than the front, as opposed to under steer, where the front washes out before the rear.

Every car at the limit will either under steer or oversteer. production cars tend to be balanced to under steer because they are easier to control, particularly by drivers with no concept of chassis dynamics.

oversteer is actually a good thing if you know how to use it. The 930 turbo I posted earlier was prone to significant oversteer, Yet it’s an amazing car in the hands of someone who knew how to drive it.

So, yes the Corvair could have been designed to be more idiot proof, but was by no means unsafe in the hands of a competent driver.
The problem with this is that the Corvair was not marketed as a sports car. So most buyers were used to conventional front engine cars that are more likely to understeer.
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Old 01-07-23, 07:27 PM
  #178  
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Originally Posted by Lombard
The problem with this is that the Corvair was not marketed as a sports car. So most buyers were used to conventional front engine cars that are more likely to understeer.
so the car wasn’t unsafe; it was the drivers. And by the way the link I posted shows a review of the data showed it wasn’t unsafe.
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Old 01-07-23, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
so the car wasn’t unsafe; it was the drivers. And by the way the link I posted shows a review of the data showed it wasn’t unsafe.
So do you expect the population as a whole to have the driving skills of Mario Andretti? This is a weak argument. When you intruduce something new to the public, you can't expect the masses to underatand something they haven't seen.

Granted that the pre-1968 Volkswagen Beetle and Renault Dauphine has the same swing axle rear suspension.
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Old 01-07-23, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Lombard
So do you expect the population as a whole to have the driving skills of Mario Andretti? This is a weak argument. When you intruduce something new to the public, you can't expect the masses to underatand something they haven't seen.

Granted that the pre-1968 Volkswagen Beetle and Renault Dauphine has the same swing axle rear suspension.

so millions of Germans and French people can drive such a car, but put it in the hands of Americans and a liability system where no one has to take any responsibility for their own behavior, and it’s always somebody else’s fault and it becomes unsafe?
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Old 01-07-23, 07:53 PM
  #181  
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
so millions of Germans and French people can drive such a car, but put it in the hands of Americans and a liability system where no one has to take any responsibility for their own behavior, and it’s always somebody else’s fault and it becomes unsafe?
Strawman argument noted.
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Old 01-07-23, 07:57 PM
  #182  
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Originally Posted by Lombard
Strawman argument noted.

No straw man. It’s dead on point. Your prior post was that while it might be safe to market as a Porsche sports car, it wasn’t safe for the masses. Yet millions of French and Germans driving similar economy cars would show it could be safely driven, even by non sports car drivers.
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Old 01-07-23, 08:11 PM
  #183  
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
No straw man. It’s dead on point. Your prior post was that while it might be safe to market as a Porsche sports car, it wasn’t safe for the masses. Yet millions of French and Germans driving similar economy cars would show it could be safely driven, even by non sports car drivers.
it's telling that the GM engineers recommended a front stabilizer bar for the Corvair only to have management nix the idea, then add it on in subsequent model years after accidents and deaths due to oversteer.
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Old 01-07-23, 08:15 PM
  #184  
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Originally Posted by Lombard
it's telling that the GM engineers recommended a front stabilizer bar for the Corvair only to have management nix the idea, then add it on in subsequent model years after accidents and deaths due to oversteer.
shifting your argument. Lose the point you’re trying to make; try another.
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Old 01-07-23, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
shifting your argument. Lose the point you’re trying to make; try another.
Wrong. I mentioned that before. Try again.
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Old 01-07-23, 08:27 PM
  #186  
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Originally Posted by Lombard
Wrong. I mentioned that before. Try again.
tell you what give me a 63 Corvair. You pick the track, and you can have any car of the era with the same engine displacement and we’ll race for titles.
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Old 01-07-23, 09:25 PM
  #187  
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
So, yes the Corvair could have been designed to be more idiot proof, but was by no means unsafe in the hands of a competent driver.
GM attorneys would have had a heart attack if an executive had made a statement like that about a car marketed to the masses.
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Old 01-07-23, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
GM attorneys would have had a heart attack if an executive had made a statement like that about a car marketed to the masses.
hence one of the problems with this country. Applying that logic, no one is responsible for their own behavior, or learning to actually operate the machinery they use.

you couldn’t sell a Porsche 930 turbo in the US today because it had a nasty habit of killing poor drivers. Yet, if you know what you’re doing it was an amazing car for the day.

We lose something if everything has to be designed to the lowest common denominator.
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Old 01-07-23, 09:46 PM
  #189  
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I can’t believe we’re comparing 930 Turbos and Corvairs, but it is BF…
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Old 01-07-23, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
hence one of the problems with this country. Applying that logic, no one is responsible for their own behavior, or learning to actually operate the machinery they use.

you couldn’t sell a Porsche 930 turbo in the US today because it had a nasty habit of killing poor drivers. Yet, if you know what you’re doing it was an amazing car for the day.

We lose something if everything has to be designed to the lowest common denominator.
No, it just means that things that are marketed to the lowest common denominator have to be designed for the lowest common denominator.
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Old 01-16-23, 08:26 AM
  #191  
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Came in to read about bikes.... but I guess I didn't know what I was thinking.
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Old 01-16-23, 11:43 AM
  #192  
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I found some videos of road tests from the 1960s and early 70s. They're hilarious, because what they're calling "good handling" is cars leaned WAY over, plowing through corners with squealing bias ply tires, losing so much rubber you can see it falling on the track, or sliding sideways through the frame during a "Panic Stop".

It's interesting that we've all internalized the idea that the Corvair was an awful, unstable car prone to suddenly flying off the road bass-ackwards into the weeds on corners, but I wonder how many actually did? And of course in 1965 Chevy gave them full IRS anyway, as well as some of the best looks of any car of that era.
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Old 01-16-23, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by thin_concrete
I can’t believe we’re comparing 930 Turbos and Corvairs, but it is BF…
There was a turbo Corvair long before there was a turbo 911.
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Old 01-16-23, 06:08 PM
  #194  
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Originally Posted by redtires
Came in to read about bikes.... but I guess I didn't know what I was thinking.
You must be new.
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Old 01-16-23, 06:13 PM
  #195  
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Originally Posted by genejockey
I found some videos of road tests from the 1960s and early 70s. They're hilarious, because what they're calling "good handling" is cars leaned WAY over, plowing through corners with squealing bias ply tires, losing so much rubber you can see it falling on the track, or sliding sideways through the frame during a "Panic Stop".

It's interesting that we've all internalized the idea that the Corvair was an awful, unstable car prone to suddenly flying off the road bass-ackwards into the weeds on corners, but I wonder how many actually did? And of course in 1965 Chevy gave them full IRS anyway, as well as some of the best looks of any car of that era.
Sometimes I wish I still had my 66. Looked like this.
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Old 01-16-23, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by big john
Sometimes I wish I still had my 66. Looked like this.
Ahhh, the 2nd gen Corvair. This one had a fully independent rear suspension rather than the controversial swing-axle suspension. This one also looked nicer than the 1st gen Corvair.
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Old 01-16-23, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Lombard
Ahhh, the 2nd gen Corvair. This one had a fully independent rear suspension rather than the controversial swing-axle suspension. This one also looked nicer than the 1st gen Corvair.
I had a 64 convertible, too, but I never drove it. Someone gave it to me after it sat in his yard for years. I planned to fix it up to drive but after I started on it I just couldn't do another car after having spent all of my free time on a 67 Mustang. Gave up and sold it. Working as a mechanic then working on project cars is too much.
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Old 01-16-23, 06:46 PM
  #198  
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Originally Posted by big john
Sometimes I wish I still had my 66. Looked like this.
When I was young, we had a Corvair van...


Ours was brown, and never ran during the time it was parked in our backyard. My dad had dreams of putting a V8 in it, but it was never more than dreams. The last I saw of it was being towed out of our driveway by whomever my dad managed to sell it to.
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Old 01-16-23, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric F
When I was young, we had a Corvair van...


Ours was brown, and never ran during the time it was parked in our backyard. My dad had dreams of putting a V8 in it, but it was never more than dreams. The last I saw of it was being towed out of our driveway by whomever my dad managed to sell it to.
A.k.a. the Greenbrier. There was also a Corvair wagon called the Lakewood.
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Old 01-16-23, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Lombard
You must be new.
Cautiously optimistic.
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