razorjack

You mean to use 92% of max 20 mins avg power?
(273 is my FTP, not 20mins avg power).

anyway, thanks for help and clarification, I'll just stick to power 105-120%FTP during VO2max, maybe with a hard start (first 30sec)

Carbonfiberboy 

Seems to me that one of the reasons we use power for intervals is so we don't vary the power during the interval. If the first one seems too easy, increase power on the second one, etc., until it's quite difficult to hold that steady power the whole way. I usually find the first one quite difficult and the second easier and then succeeding ones have ascending difficulty, all done at the same power. If the last one is not super hard, I'll increase the power next time or on the next set if there's another one. The 120% or whatever is just a rough guide for the first one. Exact FTP may not have a whole lot to do with it, depending on the interval length. One's aerobic and anaerobic abilities may not be that tightly linked. Just my experience.

razorjack

https://sparecycles.blog/?s=hard+start

burnthesheep

Your quote was "(FTP 273W - 3.8W/kg - from 20 mins test)". So, did you pre-do the math to get at 273? Did you use 92% or 95% from the 20mins. You said right there "from a 20min test". So you didn't do an hour test. So the % taken does matter. Almost nobody that's a random amateur with an ftp far south of 400 can do 95% of 20min for an hour. Usually it tends to be long-course triathletes if they can as their power duration curve is tailor made for that.

So no, 273 isn't your ftp. It's simply an estimate of ftp off of the 20min you spent, based on how your posts reads. There is NOTHING wrong with that. It's just a convenience of choosing to do it a certain way. 273 is your ftp if you went out and did it for an hour. Did you? Your post above clearly says 20min.

The more honest you are with yourself about this % cut from 20min the better your workouts will go.

Peak and fades? Ok. Sure. That can be useful if you're trying to extend the time you can spend in a specific HR range. I've read stuff about those also. Personal issue for me is that I don't prefer those for a "daily diet" for VO2 intervals simply because you have to back off the power so much for the rest of each set that you're getting less time at a higher power than you could otherwise. I prefer those as a "icing on the cake" before doing some racing, as it simulates a racing situation. Just personal opinion, ymmv.

razorjack

yes, my 20 mins avg max power = 288W
and it's used for FTP estimation: 288*.95=273

My question was: do you use 92% from my FTP estimation (as you did 273*92% calculation...), or from my max avg 20min power.

burnthesheep

288*.92 = 265 is what I would start with. Folks a different. Might still have to adjust workouts just a tiny bit.

I did 95% for years and would bang my head against the wall in terms of not gaining what I thought I should and also failing workouts.

I started doing 92% of 20min or since I am a TT nut case doing a 40k and using that for the hour power. That's worked out a lot better for me. Just that 3% mattered that much. 3% matters a lot when you're hurting on the limit in those intervals.

I started being able to hold the power for the workouts better.

I've heard of some folks doing the whole "critical power" style setting workouts also. Like, keep track of your most recent PR's in Trainingpeaks and then do your shorter length sets by the power of the next longest duration PR. Like, do your sets of 3x3min at your 8min all out PR. Or do your 2x20 at power from an actual 40k. Or do your 3x9min at your 20min PR. I may have the term wrong for "critical power", but do know some folks do that. They don't "retest" at that stuff, it's the PR's from just riding in the most recent 3 month block or whatever.