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How to build a lugged steel frame, with pics

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How to build a lugged steel frame, with pics

Old 02-17-12, 10:12 AM
  #251  
Cassave
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Originally Posted by MKIV987 View Post
Can't see the pictures
Yeah, server problems.
I'm moving all the pics over to a photobucket account.

Here's a test...........

Update: photobucket is no longer allowing 3rd party hosting so all images
moved to vgy.me.


Last edited by Cassave; 07-10-17 at 10:20 AM.
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Old 02-18-12, 11:39 AM
  #252  
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Test worked!
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Old 02-20-12, 11:48 AM
  #253  
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Update.

All photos are now served from a Photobucket account so they should load reliably, at last.
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Old 04-01-12, 09:28 AM
  #254  
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Hello Cassave, You have amassed quite a following here. You would have most of our votes if you run for President next November. Anyway, one of the things that strikes me reading this and the Mixte thread it the beautiful filing and buffing you have done after soldering. Would you be willing to share with me (us) your choice of files and buffer(s) to achieve those kind of results. I envision you have a line up of about 3 or 4 wheels set up, and a set of jewer's files. I would like to know where to get the kind of files you use. Thanks again, very much.

Going back in the thread, I saw you used die-makers files. So that is answered. Do you use a Dremel as well?

Last edited by Gyro_T; 04-01-12 at 09:41 AM. Reason: none
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Old 04-02-12, 09:30 AM
  #255  
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For buffing, I have an old 1/4 horse fan motor mounted to the bench with a rag wheel on a 1/2" mandrel. Compounds run from coarse to fine rouges, white rouge for finishing stainless.

I rarely use a Dremel for anything except cutting slits and such. My grandfather was a master engraver and diemaker. I inherited a few hundred files many of which are close to 100 years old by now.
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Old 04-20-12, 07:21 PM
  #256  
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Originally Posted by Cassave View Post
My grandfather was a master engraver and diemaker. I inherited a few hundred files many of which are close to 100 years old by now.
The build is incredible, as many others have said.

And yet, this is probably my favorite of your posts in here.
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Old 07-08-12, 11:30 PM
  #257  
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At a loss for words and all I can say is wow you are building what I want to someday be able to build.
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Old 07-15-12, 07:22 PM
  #258  
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Incredible craftmanship, I wish I was that talented. Look forward to more of your projects in the future. 2 thumbs up.
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Old 08-20-12, 09:26 PM
  #259  
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Bumping because I'd love to see detailed pics of the jig(s). Even if that never happens, this thread was a blast! Thanks!
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Old 10-15-12, 10:41 AM
  #260  
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Not sure if you're still tracking this Cassave (or anyone else) - but if you are, just curious how you appropriately line up the front derailleur tab for brazing. I built a bike this past winter and have been riding it all season with a rattle can paint job - just holding out on spending cash on a good paint job until I made sure the brazes hold. Planning on brazing on a derailleur tab while I have the paint stripped before getting it professionally painted - just not sure how to get the tab on there at the correct height and correct spot on the seat tube to ensure it's straight. Any suggestions would be appreciated!
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Old 10-16-12, 03:17 PM
  #261  
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Wrap a piece of paper around the tube. Lay it out flat and divide it into quarters drawing lines on it. Tape it back onto the tube and line it up so it's NSEW. Your eye should be able to do this easily by looking at it from various angles. Get a Sachs braze-on tab and drill a hole in the right line at the right height. The braze-on should drop right on and look great. Braze it up. I hope that makes sense. I'm sure there are fancier ways to do it, but this is how I would do it on a refit.
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Old 11-23-12, 10:06 PM
  #262  
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awesome.
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Old 01-20-13, 11:13 PM
  #263  
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where did you get the materials to build this bike
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Old 01-21-13, 12:00 PM
  #264  
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Originally Posted by jhboyy7 View Post
where did you get the materials to build this bike
Tubes, fork crown and crankshell came from Nova, lugs, dropouts and fork tips from Henry James.

See this thread for links: https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ding-Suppliers
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Old 02-14-13, 08:27 PM
  #265  
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Wow. Just noticed this thread crossed over 100,000 views.
Things got real legs. I wish were as good.

BTW, the bike is still on the road and ridden all the time.
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Old 04-06-13, 12:26 AM
  #266  
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That is one super bikeThanks for sharing
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Old 05-25-13, 06:09 PM
  #267  
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Originally Posted by Cassave View Post
The work progresses. I finished the rear triangle.
The one spot that framebuilders typically try to make a signature design is
the seat cluster. It's a very low stress location on diamond frames so it offers
a lot of possibilities for variation. The design I prefer is the one here. I've
built several frames with the same very clean modified fastback design. ...etc.
THAT is interesting work. Leads to a how'd-he-do-that response.

I've got to copy your work to save my favorite bike. The beloved is a 64cm mass production 1980 Panasonic. 29#. Nothing exceptional. But it's strong as an ox. Super work horse and been at it forever.

Hopeless.

The bike is too big for me, but it's been a great ride and it takes my 190# plus 30# groceries happily.

Problem is that I need to cut it down to a 60cm. It's not safe at 64cm as I get into old age. So now I'll go to a 60cm frame and do a cut-and-"Cassave" on the 64cm.

We don't recycle old fittings in most pipe systems. But here I'll try to recycle the Panasonic lugs. If they look to have taken wear, I'll gusset the angles. And/or weld some more steel on there.

You're an inspiration. Lovely work and photography.
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Old 06-05-13, 09:37 AM
  #268  
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Nice job, really inspiring me to get a jig together.
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Old 09-13-13, 07:11 AM
  #269  
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Wow this looks nice. Good project and thanks for showing it to the peps
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Old 12-21-13, 09:43 AM
  #270  
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I am very curious as to what this bikes weighs. What type of steel? Chromemoly? Wall thickness?
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Old 01-08-14, 11:00 AM
  #271  
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Originally Posted by Brodie01 View Post
I am very curious as to what this bikes weighs. What type of steel? Chromemoly? Wall thickness?
When finished with rack and all the bike weighed 20.6 lbs.
The tubes are Dedaccia Com 12.5, it's a chrome-moly alloy, double butted with walls at 0.8 and 0.5 mm.
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Old 02-09-14, 08:15 AM
  #272  
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I do love the colour, the stainless accents, and the decals. Your name works. The seat stay work is gorgeous.

I like building things, but what stops me from doing this so far are a few things:

The machining tools. The fork race tool. The head tube tools. The bottom bracket tools. They seem to me to be the most expensive pieces that I do not have. Anyone know a less arm and a leg source for these?

The details. What does the fork leg bending jig look like inside? How was the brake bridge assembled? What does the back of the jig look like? How are things attached? How to you check for alignment? Do you have the giant granite table and massive clamps and dial indicators? What is missing?

Then the brazing, I have used standard lead solder on electronics and, god forbid, in the dark ages, plumbing. I have used bronze/brass to stick things together and fill in holes. I even mig and stick weld adequately. I have used flux for plumbing, but flux core and flux coated for most of the other. I have never used silver. It worries me. This has the scary part of plumbing, how are you sure there is enough filler material? Too much and it globs all over too little and the water goes all over. I suspect too little here and it could be even messier. Also, are there cheats available to help you know if you are getting it hotter than you need to?

Is this process like wheel building, in that it looks really tough until you actually do it, and then its kind of addicting?

Thanks,

Rick
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Old 02-10-14, 03:15 PM
  #273  
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Rick;

Well, you asked all the basic questions and checked al the boxes that most potential framebuilders seem to ask. As for each;

I bought my frame finishing tools nearly forty years ago and they were expensive in 1975 dollars. I'd invite the other builders here to chime in on this one.
One alternative is to find a builder or shop nearby that will face and ream the BB an HT for you. I'd suggest you buy a set of dropout alignment tools, pretty cheap.

My fork blade bender is a piece of MIC6 tooling plate cut to the profile I want, it's flat faced, not radiused to match the blade.

Alignment, I have a blanchard ground cast iron plate and basic inspection tools. I built many frames without them, they are a nice thing to have but you can make a very straight frame with
nothing more than a good critical eye.

Brazing is the real learned "mechanical" skill for building steel brazed frames. It takes practice. As always suggested, get some scrap tubes, some wire and flux and tune your skills. Cut up the finished joint to inspect for fill and voids etc.
I know of no shortcuts here. You'll just learn when the materials are working correctly and when they're not. Silver brazing is relatively easy and not as likely to overheat tubes as bronze/brass brazing.

Addictive? To the extent that you'll never be completely satisfied with any frame you build. You may end up convincing yourself that just one more to get it really right then you'll quit.
Sure.



Originally Posted by ricklp View Post
I do love the colour, the stainless accents, and the decals. Your name works. The seat stay work is gorgeous.

I like building things, but what stops me from doing this so far are a few things:

The machining tools. The fork race tool. The head tube tools. The bottom bracket tools. They seem to me to be the most expensive pieces that I do not have. Anyone know a less arm and a leg source for these?

The details. What does the fork leg bending jig look like inside? How was the brake bridge assembled? What does the back of the jig look like? How are things attached? How to you check for alignment? Do you have the giant granite table and massive clamps and dial indicators? What is missing?

Then the brazing, I have used standard lead solder on electronics and, god forbid, in the dark ages, plumbing. I have used bronze/brass to stick things together and fill in holes. I even mig and stick weld adequately. I have used flux for plumbing, but flux core and flux coated for most of the other. I have never used silver. It worries me. This has the scary part of plumbing, how are you sure there is enough filler material? Too much and it globs all over too little and the water goes all over. I suspect too little here and it could be even messier. Also, are there cheats available to help you know if you are getting it hotter than you need to?

Is this process like wheel building, in that it looks really tough until you actually do it, and then its kind of addicting?

Thanks,

Rick
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Old 02-11-14, 10:42 AM
  #274  
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Just to support what Cassave said, I've built 2 frames now in my basement. All frame facing/chasing/reaming gets done by a local shop. Cost of entry is so high on those tools, you'd have to plan to make at least 15 frames probably before you'd approach covering the costs of having a shop do the work. I say build a few, if the bug bites you, you can always start slowly accumulating those tools over time. I haven't built my own fork yet, but am about to and you can do straight legged forks with angled crown to avoid the need for a bender. I own no alignment tools aside from a straight edge, angle finder, some string, and a good eye, and both my bikes pass all string alignment tests and can be ridden no-handed.

Watch some brazing videos on youtube, pick yourself up a book, read a ton of the various frame forums, do some practicing, and you can silver braze yourself a bike too. It's fun and rewarding.

It's not like wheel building, in that it's not really very easy. You'll make mistakes, you'll have to pull tubes apart and re-braze them, you'll miter both ends of a tube before you realize that you totally flipped one of the miters upside down (ask me how I know). But with time, patience, and a measure 5 times, cut once attitude, it can be done.
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Old 02-11-14, 12:11 PM
  #275  
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actually the Tig And Lugged builds still need the miters done accurately ..

but there are Lugged frames* that can get away with gaps, as the lug covers up the gaps.

*famous builders , which did speedups to meet demand have done this.
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