Who are the Top 5 Italian craftsmen of all time?
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Yes all included in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...rial_designers but I would choose others mentioned above for C&V bike frames
#52
OldSchool
Giuseppe Pela and Tommasini are the first names that popped into my mind. Masi is also a good addition that others have not mentioned. De Rosa of course. And Losa. I thought the mention of Basso Brothers was interesting. To have built so many frames that bore other builders names certainly speaks to their respect in the industry. Losa falls into that same discussion having built so many frames for others. To me, Losa and Pela are in a league by themselves. They are like the founding fathers of frame building, artisans of their craft.
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Also, can't believe 3 pages and no mention of Pinella de Grandi.
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Are we talking craftsmen who built the best designed frames or the best looking frames?
Colnago came to fame building well designed frames but if you put a Tommasini and Colnago side by side the Tommasini will win the aesthetic design contest but i have no knowledge of how they would have compared in pro cycling back when they were new. The Italian frames were quite flash back in the day with all the chrome detailing and even the lesser known ones like the Vanni i have made with SL ,chromed brackets and gear cables hidden in the frame must've been quite a job to build it compared to other more simpler designed frames.
Colnago came to fame building well designed frames but if you put a Tommasini and Colnago side by side the Tommasini will win the aesthetic design contest but i have no knowledge of how they would have compared in pro cycling back when they were new. The Italian frames were quite flash back in the day with all the chrome detailing and even the lesser known ones like the Vanni i have made with SL ,chromed brackets and gear cables hidden in the frame must've been quite a job to build it compared to other more simpler designed frames.
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If you want to hear some deflating information on noted Italian builders, read what Tom Ritchie found when he was starting out in the '70s. He was cutting up Italian frames to see how things were done by "the best". Some of what he saw was sobering. (And basically proof that lugged and brazed construction is close to fool proof; a point that Raleigh put an exclamation point on in the bike boom. I have a Competition that apparently missed the final lug brazing and was still whole and riding fine 45 years later.)
That said, I still have a soft spot for a red early '70s Masi I spent about a 1000 miles riding with my summer of serious racing.
That said, I still have a soft spot for a red early '70s Masi I spent about a 1000 miles riding with my summer of serious racing.
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Along the same lines, I picked up a 1986 De Rosa10 or 12 years ago, a real beauty. As I did back then, I took it to my go-to shop for C&V work (since sold to Trek) to have the then-owner (Steve Howard, an old riding buddy) check the alignment, chase the threads, that sort of stuff. When I picked it up he said it was "pretty straight -- for an Italian Frame." He said it with a smile, but he wasn't kidding.
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#61
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Always difficult to figure out who made and did not make frames. Pinella was the chief mechanic at Bianchi, but did not make any bike frames. He probably handled and built-up frames made by Valsassina, Carlo Drali, Gilardi, and guess some more.
Same with Masi, Colnago, Gios, Pinarello, Paletti and others. Not really into building frames themselves, but very important nevertheless in the history of italian bikes.
Same with Masi, Colnago, Gios, Pinarello, Paletti and others. Not really into building frames themselves, but very important nevertheless in the history of italian bikes.
Last edited by redo1; 06-27-22 at 07:43 AM.
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Spoiler bottom bracket? Fully sloping fork crown? Fastback seat lug? Classic bars and stems? The Laser? Not to mention all the other innovations that were ahead of their time (clipless pedals?). Cinelli has to be at or very near the top.
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They must have greyer hair than me.
First I have been made aware of him, and I have been a student of vintage lightweights for over 23 years.
Cannot be aware of it all.
You are not doing your marketing, but I know, the good at marketing designers, don't design, they are salesmen and well off.
First I have been made aware of him, and I have been a student of vintage lightweights for over 23 years.
Cannot be aware of it all.
You are not doing your marketing, but I know, the good at marketing designers, don't design, they are salesmen and well off.
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what is the date on the fork steerer?
Interesting mix of bottom bracket ports and the fluted seat stay caps.
Those transfers would not be used long, from a silk screener's perspective, way way too many colors and tight registration.
Interesting mix of bottom bracket ports and the fluted seat stay caps.
Those transfers would not be used long, from a silk screener's perspective, way way too many colors and tight registration.
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Are we talking craftsmen who built the best designed frames or the best looking frames?
Colnago came to fame building well designed frames but if you put a Tommasini and Colnago side by side the Tommasini will win the aesthetic design contest but i have no knowledge of how they would have compared in pro cycling back when they were new. The Italian frames were quite flash back in the day with all the chrome detailing and even the lesser known ones like the Vanni i have made with SL ,chromed brackets and gear cables hidden in the frame must've been quite a job to build it compared to other more simpler designed frames.
Colnago came to fame building well designed frames but if you put a Tommasini and Colnago side by side the Tommasini will win the aesthetic design contest but i have no knowledge of how they would have compared in pro cycling back when they were new. The Italian frames were quite flash back in the day with all the chrome detailing and even the lesser known ones like the Vanni i have made with SL ,chromed brackets and gear cables hidden in the frame must've been quite a job to build it compared to other more simpler designed frames.
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Why do you think the article is incorrect? Also do you think he never built? Exclusively a mechanic at Frejus and Bartali's bikes for the Tour?
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#67
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The article does not state that Pinella made frames, except for one bit where it is not very clear, where it reads that Valsassina, Gilardi and Pinella 'constructed' the Bianchi bikes. A frame alone does not make a whole bike, and that is where Pinella seems to have been the king. Further down in the article, you will have a page where it shows you when Valsassina stopped making frames for the team (because hired away from Bianchi by Cino Cinelli) and when Gilardi started making these frames for the professionals. Now Carlo Drali was not working inside Bianchi, but people say that some of the reparto corse frames were made by him for professional riders.
How many of the 'normal' racing bike Bianchi frames, not for professionals, were made by Valsassina or Gilardi I would not know. Am pretty sure that they had at least helpers, or perhaps other framebuilders who would help in the production?
By the way, when Gilardi retired from Bianchi, he joined Lupo Mascheroni (another known mechanic) and made frames for him..
How many of the 'normal' racing bike Bianchi frames, not for professionals, were made by Valsassina or Gilardi I would not know. Am pretty sure that they had at least helpers, or perhaps other framebuilders who would help in the production?
By the way, when Gilardi retired from Bianchi, he joined Lupo Mascheroni (another known mechanic) and made frames for him..
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The article does not state that Pinella made frames, except for one bit where it is not very clear, where it reads that Valsassina, Gilardi and Pinella 'constructed' the Bianchi bikes. A frame alone does not make a whole bike, and that is where Pinella seems to have been the king. Further down in the article, you will have a page where it shows you when Valsassina stopped making frames for the team (because hired away from Bianchi by Cino Cinelli) and when Gilardi started making these frames for the professionals. Now Carlo Drali was not working inside Bianchi, but people say that some of the reparto corse frames were made by him for professional riders.
How many of the 'normal' racing bike Bianchi frames, not for professionals, were made by Valsassina or Gilardi I would not know. Am pretty sure that they had at least helpers, or perhaps other framebuilders who would help in the production?
By the way, when Gilardi retired from Bianchi, he joined Lupo Mascheroni (another known mechanic) and made frames for him..
How many of the 'normal' racing bike Bianchi frames, not for professionals, were made by Valsassina or Gilardi I would not know. Am pretty sure that they had at least helpers, or perhaps other framebuilders who would help in the production?
By the way, when Gilardi retired from Bianchi, he joined Lupo Mascheroni (another known mechanic) and made frames for him..
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Along the same lines, I picked up a 1986 De Rosa10 or 12 years ago, a real beauty. As I did back then, I took it to my go-to shop for C&V work (since sold to Trek) to have the then-owner (Steve Howard, an old riding buddy) check the alignment, chase the threads, that sort of stuff. When I picked it up he said it was "pretty straight -- for an Italian Frame." He said it with a smile, but he wasn't kidding.
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